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  #321  
Old 01-18-2015, 09:02 PM
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If this question has been answered before, please feel free to direct me to the appropriate post:


When Gustav inherits the title will he then be able to marry Carina or do the terms of his grandfather's will continue into perpetuity?
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  #322  
Old 01-18-2015, 09:17 PM
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That is a good question. The grandfather, the Nazi, controls, this man's life which is sad. So, he has to hope his father dies.......very sad.
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  #323  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
That is a good question. The grandfather, the Nazi, controls, this man's life which is sad. So, he has to hope his father dies.......very sad.

I'd love to hear a legal opinion on this. I would think that the new Furst (Gustav) would be a able to write his own terms since the problem is that Prince Richard isn't the Furst. What a sad and twisted story.

I admire Princess Benedickte for treating Carina as a daughter-in-law.


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  #324  
Old 01-19-2015, 01:42 AM
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This is the first time I'd heard of this situation. Sounds like something out of a Victorian novel..absolutely riduculous. Having said that, I know in my husband's g. grandfather's will it had a statement that if his wife didn't like their daughter's choice of husband she'd be disinherited.
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  #325  
Old 01-19-2015, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
That is a good question. The grandfather, the Nazi, controls, this man's life which is sad. So, he has to hope his father dies.......very sad.

Why would Gustav have hope if his father died? This sounds very sad and unfair that Gustav is waiting for his father's death in order to marry her. I really hope that Prince Richard will live long.
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  #326  
Old 01-19-2015, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by suztav View Post
I'd love to hear a legal opinion on this. I would think that the new Furst (Gustav) would be a able to write his own terms since the problem is that Prince Richard isn't the Furst. What a sad and twisted story.

I admire Princess Benedickte for treating Carina as a daughter-in-law.


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I 'm not sure that Princess Benedikte accepted Carina as a daughter-in-law. In an interview Carina insulted Gustav's parents and siblings a few years ago.
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  #327  
Old 01-19-2015, 08:09 AM
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Well, the whole matter has nothing to do with the father, Prince Richard, so his dying or not dying won't change a thing. It was Princes Richards father, Gustav's grandfather, who wrote in his will that the eldest son of his eldest son should be the heir. (By skipping one generation they would also skip inheritance tax for one generation. Imagine that heir after heir dies during the war and each time tax has to be payed! It was better to postpone the time when it was settled on who the heir would be to when he was grown up.)


The Prince Gustav Albrecht (the grand-father) was not a particularly Nazi type and he was not member of the Nazi party. He even bought the Jewish cemetory in Bad Berleburg. This being property of the Prince protected the cemetory from Nazi destruction, it remained intact. From what I know the property was given back to the community after WWII.


But it seems he was somewhat influenced by the ideology of his age and wrote in his will that the eldest son of his eldest son can only inherit if he marries a noble and aryan girl. Nowadays the aryan bit of the will would not hold in a German court. But Carina is not a noblewomen, and the court ruled that the late Prince was free to put this into his will.


The stupid thing about this is, that the will was badly phrased. He wrote that if the eldest son of the eldest son did not marry the right women, the next in line should be the heir. That way the special condition does only apply to Prince Gustav, not to the other potential heirs. I doubt that is what the grandfather wanted, but stupidly that's how he put it down. So if Gustav and Carina marry, the estate will go to a cousin who is married to a commoner.


Anyway, I think that Carina is well past forty, so they won't have any thoughts of founding a family anymore. It really doesn't matter that much whether they are married or not.
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  #328  
Old 01-19-2015, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
Anyway, I think that Carina is well past forty, so they won't have any thoughts of founding a family anymore. It really doesn't matter that much whether they are married or not.
... doesn't matter?

He might still one day regret to have no children of his own and decide to dump Carina. There are other examples of late fathers. Not an easy situation for Carina, I would say, without official marriage certificate.
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  #329  
Old 01-19-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by royalfan_10 View Post
I 'm not sure that Princess Benedikte accepted Carina as a daughter-in-law. In an interview Carina insulted Gustav's parents and siblings a few years ago.

I actually remember an interview where Princess B referred to her as her daughter-in-law. Also, Carina has attended royal events in a family tiara --- that must signify some level of acceptance.


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  #330  
Old 01-19-2015, 09:38 AM
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... doesn't matter?

He might still one day regret to have no children of his own and decide to dump Carina. There are other examples of late fathers. Not an easy situation for Carina, I would say, without official marriage certificate.
He also might dump her with a marriage certificate, who can ever rule out divorce? And Carina is a strong and emancipated women, she does not depend on Gustav.

I mean they might well like to be married, but not being married certainly doesn't ruin their lives.
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  #331  
Old 01-19-2015, 09:43 AM
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It is sad they don't have Children ; this Situation is to me like Prince Bertil and Lilian Craig.
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  #332  
Old 01-19-2015, 12:02 PM
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And they will not already have them, giving that Carina is 45 or 46 years old. Sad, in fact...
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  #333  
Old 01-19-2015, 12:13 PM
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It is a pity that they do not continue the dynasty. But there are many people who don't have children, for various reasons. Sometimes people really suffer from it, others don't mind, have learned to enjoy their lives anyway, or were never keen on having kids. Imo the most important thing is that they have a good and happy relationship.
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  #334  
Old 03-05-2015, 10:18 AM
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In a recent interview Carina admitted to develop thick skin against criticisms.

http://dearteenme.com/?p=9036

Carina also judged parents, including hers,too.

"Find a way to indulge your passions and don’t give a thought to what anyone else, parents included – maybe, even, parents especially – say or think."

"Which leads me to the second thing I’d tell you: Develop thick skin."

Carina said that she hadn't liked school either.

"two hours of reading (on my OWN and with a book of MY choice) could cancel out six hours of sitting in class listening to a lot of blah blah blah."
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  #335  
Old 03-05-2015, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
Well, the whole matter has nothing to do with the father, Prince Richard, so his dying or not dying won't change a thing. It was Princes Richards father, Gustav's grandfather, who wrote in his will that the eldest son of his eldest son should be the heir. (By skipping one generation they would also skip inheritance tax for one generation. Imagine that heir after heir dies during the war and each time tax has to be payed! It was better to postpone the time when it was settled on who the heir would be to when he was grown up.)


The Prince Gustav Albrecht (the grand-father) was not a particularly Nazi type and he was not member of the Nazi party. He even bought the Jewish cemetory in Bad Berleburg. This being property of the Prince protected the cemetory from Nazi destruction, it remained intact. From what I know the property was given back to the community after WWII.


But it seems he was somewhat influenced by the ideology of his age and wrote in his will that the eldest son of his eldest son can only inherit if he marries a noble and aryan girl. Nowadays the aryan bit of the will would not hold in a German court. But Carina is not a noblewomen, and the court ruled that the late Prince was free to put this into his will.


The stupid thing about this is, that the will was badly phrased. He wrote that if the eldest son of the eldest son did not marry the right women, the next in line should be the heir. That way the special condition does only apply to Prince Gustav, not to the other potential heirs. I doubt that is what the grandfather wanted, but stupidly that's how he put it down. So if Gustav and Carina marry, the estate will go to a cousin who is married to a commoner.


Anyway, I think that Carina is well past forty, so they won't have any thoughts of founding a family anymore. It really doesn't matter that much whether they are married or not.
I didn't realize that the cousin, Bernhardt, married a commoner? When did the marriage take place?
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  #336  
Old 03-05-2015, 06:54 PM
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I didn't realize that the cousin, Bernhardt, married a commoner? When did the marriage take place?
Bernhart Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein married on 31 August 1996 with Katharina Gräfin von Podewils-Dürniz. So no commoner at all.... The couple have one son: Wenzel Erbprinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein (b. 1997).




The nobility of young Prince Wenzel:

Parents
Bernhart Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein
Katharina Gräfin von Podewils-Dürniz

Grandparents
Christian-Heinrich Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein
Dagmar Prinzessin zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein
Max Graf von Podewils-Dürniz
Elisabeth Freiin von Hirschberg.
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  #337  
Old 03-06-2015, 05:52 AM
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I didn't realize that the cousin, Bernhardt, married a commoner? When did the marriage take place?
I meant Prince Gustav's first cousin Prince Sebastian, son of Prince Robin. From what I know his wife Julie Toussaint was born a commoner. Prince Sebastian is the next in line to the inheritance.
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  #338  
Old 03-06-2015, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
I meant Prince Gustav's first cousin Prince Sebastian, son of Prince Robin. From what I know his wife Julie Toussaint was born a commoner. Prince Sebastian is the next in line to the inheritance.
Prince Robin and his son Prince Sebastian did not comply with the House requirements to marry a partner whom is standesgemäß. I don't know the exact wording of the Will (I believe no one has seen it) but most likely they are not meeting the conditions.

It was my understanding that when Prince Gustav also does not marry standesgemäß, this means that the patrimonium of the House Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg will go to the House Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein.

But as long as the situation is at present, Prince Gustav is and remains the Heir. No problems.

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  #339  
Old 03-06-2015, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Prince Robin and his son Prince Sebastian did not comply with the House requirements to marry a partner whom is standesgemäß. I don't know the exact wording of the Will (I believe no one has seen it) but most likely they are not meeting the conditions.


We also don't know if the requirements in the will incldues Prince Robin and his children or only Prince Gustav.
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  #340  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:46 AM
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Both Houses of the same dynasty have splendid properties.

Prince Richard zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg lives at Schloss Berleburg, see picture and another picture.

Prine Bernhart zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein lives at Schloss Scharzenau, see picture (from 1999, which was before the last restoration) and another picture.

In the 1950's the family gave Schloss Wittgenstein in use for a gymnasium with boarding school. In 2002 it was sold to the family Kämmerling and is in splendid state, see picture and another picture.

The Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburgs hold 13.500 hectare (100 hectare is 0.38610 square mile) of forests and lands, administered by the Wittgenstein-Berleburg'sche Rentkammer.

The Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohensteins holds enormous amounts of forests and lands as well, administered by Fürst Wittgenstein`sche Waldbesitzergesellschaft. Since 1 January 2015 a cooperation has been established with the neighbouring Waldgesellschaft der Freiherrn zu Eisenbach and the new cooperation administers 22.000 hectare of forests in North Rhineland-Westphalia. The family also holds around 1000 hectare of forests in Brandenburg and 3.500 hectare of forests in Czech Republic.

It is amazing that the German royal and princely families survived two world wars and the fall of the monarchy so well...

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