Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson, Current Events & Discussion 1: July 2007-Aug 2009

[NotAPretender]

Someone was mentioning that she was included in the Danish RF's Christmas card this year but the picture was never posted, so I'm not sure that's true.

 

[Hendrik-Jan77]

She tries to look like a princess, but she is NOT.
Somehow it appears strange to me that a woman who is not a princess or from any other nobility wears a tiara.
It is my personal opinion but I find it a bit tacky.
IF she marries prince Gustav, THEN she can wear a tiara.
Call me old-fashioned, but if she can wear a tiara, my sister can too...

 

[Guido]

She tries to look like a princess, but she is NOT.
Somehow it appears strange to me that a woman who is not a princess or from any other nobility wears a tiara.
It is my personal opinion but I find it a bit tacky.
IF she marries prince Gustav, THEN she can wear a tiara.
Call me old-fashioned, but if she can wear a tiara, my sister can too...

I agree with you. Carina shouldn't wear a tiara while Gustav will marry her. It's ridiculous how she is trying to play a princess role. At least if Gustav will never be able to marry her.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Whether one agrees with it or not the fact is Carina is considered to be apart of the family (both the DRF and more importantly the SWB family.)

Furthermore, because she is known also as the "life companion" to Gustav and wears a ruby and diamond ring on her "ring finger" it does make sense that she would wear these beautiful tiaras (one of which belongs to the SWB family and the other to Princess Benedikte.)

 

[Al_bina]

I agree with you. The fact that Ms. Axelsson is loaned to wear tiaras belonging to the family clearly indicates that she is viewed as an acceptable companion for Prince Gustav.

 

[Hendrik-Jan77]

To me tiara's are only for queens, princesses and other nobility.
For anyone else to wear tiara's is as meaningless to me as a Miss Universe wearing a tiara...
A real modest person would decline wearing a tiara.
What remains special about a tiara if any woman can wear it?
The special thing about tiara's is that you don't see them so often.
But that is what I think.

 

[Marsel]

I agree with GlitteringTiaras and Al_bina; Carina is very much part of the family and the fact that Princess Benedikte loaned her a tiara from family collection just proves it.
It is not by their own free will that Gustav and Carina aren't married yet, but because of the unfortunate will; I hope the situation with the will is going to be improved soon so that Gustav and Carina can finally enjoy normal family life.

 

[gardenia8]

She tries to look like a princess, but she is NOT.
Somehow it appears strange to me that a woman who is not a princess or from any other nobility wears a tiara.
It is my personal opinion but I find it a bit tacky.
IF she marries prince Gustav, THEN she can wear a tiara.
Call me old-fashioned, but if she can wear a tiara, my sister can too...

Well, since you consider yourself to be "old-fashioned," it might interest you to know that many wealthy non-royal women have worn tiaras throughout history. In the late 1800s and early 1900s women from the gilded age often wore tiaras to high-society events. Prince Lilian of Sweden (who is well-loved by the Swedes) also wore a tiara to many events in the 1970s before she was married to Prince Bertil. She, like Carina, had to endure a long-relationship before finally being allowed to marry. Princess Maxima of the Netherlands also wore a tiara before her wedding to Crown-Princess Willem-Alexander. Being royal is not a requirement to wearing a tiara!

 

[kbear]

To me tiara's are only for queens, princesses and other nobility.
For anyone else to wear tiara's is as meaningless to me as a Miss Universe wearing a tiara...
A real modest person would decline wearing a tiara.
What remains special about a tiara if any woman can wear it?
The special thing about tiara's is that you don't see them so often.
But that is what I think.

Yes I agree I personally disapproved of other CPs wearing them before a wedding and I haven't changed my opinion.

 

[sgl]

Princess Benedikte loaned the tiara to Carina, which is indicative (IMO) of the family's view of her. It is not as if Carina purchased a tiara herself. If the royal family sees fit for Carina to wear a tiara, then that is their decision. I see it as a statement of how they feel about Carina. Poor Carina can't help it that she is the victim of an outdated and ethno-centric will (IMO). Since she is often referred to as Prince Gustav's "life partner", this tells me that they would be married if it wasn't for that ridiculous will. IMO, Carina is viewed as part of the royal family. This is apparent by the fact that she has appeared in official family portraits, and seems to be welcomed warmly at family gatherings.

 

[Marsel]

Mary Donaldson also wore a Tiara prior to her wedding, on the eve of her wedding, to be more precise. If I remember correctly, it was a Ruby Parure (she wore the Tiara, necklace and earrings) from the collection of Queen Ingrid.

Princess Mary, Princess Lillian, Princess Maxima were all allowed to wear tiaras from the family collections prior to their weddings because they were already considered part of the family. Carina's situation is very similar to Princess Lilian's; Lilian and Bertil also had to wait for many years before they were 'allowed' to marry, even though Lilian had already been accepted by most members of the Swedish Royal Family and the majority of people.

I have little doubt in my mind that Carina and Gustav will marry once this mess with the will is cleared.

 

[amedea]

If the two are so in love why prince Gustav doesn't renounce to his rights? Many people in the world live on their job's revenues and Gustav royal connections could help him in finding an easy and well paid job and the family has others heirs ( even if I can understand that pinces Richard and Benedikte would prefer their son to succed ). And the role they have in Danmark wouldn't change because it is not related to their position in the SWB family but to the links with the DRF.
All this is very far from a beautiful love story and very near to a story of opportunism: they want the privileges of that situation without taking the duties that justify that privileges.

 

[sgl]

That is the million-dollar question, Amedea! I think that right now, they are trying to get the will overturned in the court-system. I could be wrong, but I believe that the case is still in the courts. I don't think that a decision has been reached. I can understand if they want to take this route first. If the courts say no, and Gustav chooses not to marry Carina, then this is another thing.

 

[Stefanie]

Not to forget that Carina is already 40 years old (turns 41 in August!)
I have the video of Alexandra Berleburgs wedding and I never had thought that both her brother and sister aren´t married yet now after almost 11 years
So if they´ ll ever marry there probably will be no children and therefore another problem will come up

 

[Marsel]

But why should he renounce to his rights? That decision would have an impact on not only his and Carina's life but also the lives of so many other people, there would be the question of inheritance, juridical difficulties and obstacles. Their whole lives would be changed because of one out-dated, selective and racist will. Is it really fair?

Stefanie, if the question of the will is solved within next 1-3 years, there is every chance Gustav and Carina can have children; we live in times of advanced science and if women in their 60's can have children, then surely a healthy 40 years old will not have problems either?

The point is, these two love each other and want to be together. Their families are apparently very supportive of their relationship as well.

 

[ashelen]

well she is 40 , when are she thinking to have a baby??? hurry up darling otherwise it will be not heir! sorry to say this but it is a fact

 

[sgl]

I know exactly what you mean Ashelen; but having a child outside of marriage would add even more problems to the issue of inheritance. I feel really badly for them. They are in a very difficult spot.

 

[amedea]

we all know how much pride and fairness should be important for a noble or a royal and in this case pride and fairness should suggest that if he doesn't want to accept his grand-father moral heritage (that means continuing the family tradition of marrying european aristocratic and christian women) he should also renounce to his economic heritage. If not that's too much easy..
However is the case complicated in german law? It is expected to last still much time? In Italian law, the one I know, there would be no doubt that a will like that, or the specific clause we are talking about, are invalid.
I don't hide that my hope is that German law is different in this point.

 

[sgl]

I don't know how German law works in relation to this issue (maybe one of our German members could explain?), but it sounds like it is still a valid clause, and that is what is causing the problem. I think the courts are trying to figure out whether it could be overturned or not.

 

[Guido]

Mary Donaldson also wore a Tiara prior to her wedding, on the eve of her wedding, to be more precise. If I remember correctly, it was a Ruby Parure (she wore the Tiara, necklace and earrings) from the collection of Queen Ingrid.

Princess Mary, Princess Lillian, Princess Maxima were all allowed to wear tiaras from the family collections prior to their weddings because they were already considered part of the family. Carina's situation is very similar to Princess Lilian's; Lilian and Bertil also had to wait for many years before they were 'allowed' to marry, even though Lilian had already been accepted by most members of the Swedish Royal Family and the majority of people.

I have little doubt in my mind that Carina and Gustav will marry once this mess with the will is cleared.

Yes, Mary and Maxima did wear tiaras when their engagement was officially announced and their wedding was sure 100%. In the case of Carina, nothing is sure. Gustav can marry her at any time if he is willing to renounce his rights. But they consider money and title more important than their love.

 

[Al_bina]

Well ... what a strange situation Prince Guastav and Ms. Axelsson have found themselves in ... By the way, I have fully been unaware of the will. It is hard for me to pass a judgment on the matter due to the difficulty to determine who is more responsible for not urging to make the union official.

 

[Marsel]

I don't know how German law works in relation to this issue (maybe one of our German members could explain?), but it sounds like it is still a valid clause, and that is what is causing the problem. I think the courts are trying to figure out whether it could be overturned or not.

I found it difficult to understand all the question related to the issue of the will, particularly the question whether a will like that contradicts German Law or Human Rights. However, after reading this thread (from the beginning), I found answers to most of my questions.

I suggest you to read the following posts by people, who have explained the matter far better than I ever could:

Post 1, Post 2, Post 3, Post 4, Post 5, Post 6, Post 7, Post 8, Post 9, Post 10, Post 11, Post 12, Post 13, Post 14, Post 15

 

[Al_bina]

That is one will !!!

 

[sgl]

Jo of Palatine brings up an excellent point in post 15, and NotAPretender brings up an excellent point in post 14. Perhaps they simply choose not to marry. Either way, it is their decision on what to do about this situation, regardless of what the court decides. I do think that it is great that Carina has been so warmly accepted into the family, and perhaps that is enough for her. I guess that we won't know until they either announce the court's decision, or announce an engagement. All that matters is that they truly love each other (not for material reasons), and that they are happy together.

 

[Hendrik-Jan77]

Yes, Mary and Maxima did wear tiaras when their engagement was officially announced and their wedding was sure 100%. In the case of Carina, nothing is sure. Gustav can marry her at any time if he is willing to renounce his rights. But they consider money and title more important than their love.

I totally agree. If they love each other they should marry anyway, will or no will.
The especially should if they want to start a family.
This proves to me that their social standing is more important for them, at least for him.
In this day and age, where crownprinces have fought against their parents, the establishment, politics and public opinion so that they could marry with the love of their lives, if find it a bit sad that this minor royal (prince Gustav) is letting a stupid will determining his way of life...
If I were her I would feel insulted, but appearantly she is ok with this situation.
I understand that maintaining a certain position can be really important in such a family, but if it would have such a big impact on my life I would make decisions based on how I feel towards a person and not base my decision on what I would/could lose because of a will.

 

[amedea]

I found it difficult to understand all the question related to the issue of the will, particularly the question whether a will like that contradicts German Law or Human Rights. However, after reading this thread (from the beginning), I found answers to most of my questions.

I suggest you to read the following posts by people, who have explained the matter far better than I ever could:

Post 1, Post 2, Post 3, Post 4, Post 5, Post 6, Post 7, Post 8, Post 9, Post 10, Post 11, Post 12, Post 13, Post 14, Post 15

thank you very much Marsel77, these posts are very useful. It is clear now that to judge better the situation we should know something more on the precise terms of the unpublished will: I am particularly intersted in what would happen to prince Richard's rights (the ones of beneficiate of the estate) if Gustav renounce his rights.

 

[emmeleia]

She is not married to G.

Then in what way is she allowed to wear a tiara???

The tiara, I think, is destined for members of the RF.

doesn' it???

 

[Al_bina]

I think that your questions have been answered by post #424 and 430 in this thread.

 

[Tilia C.]

Tiaras are usually associated with royalty or nobility, but that does not mean it is a noble privilege to wear one. If you are invited to a white-tie-event and you happen to have a tiara, you may wear it. Check out the pictures from the gallery: http://msndk.starlounge.com/index.cfm?objectid=55349&imagenr=1
There are a lot of women wearing tiaras, and not all come with an aristocratic title (as far as I can tell).

Imo lending a tiara to Carina is a very nice sign of support for Gustav and Carina. It shows that the family accepts her as the women by Gustav’s site.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Imo lending a tiara to Carina is a very nice sign of support for Gustav and Carina. It shows that the family accepts her as the women by Gustav’s site.

I agree with you. She is practically Gustav's wife so why shouldn't she be allowed to wear a tiara.