Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson, Current Events & Discussion 1: July 2007-Aug 2009


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There is other Heir of the Berleburg House?

Of course there is as there is further family.

Let's assume the old prince stated in his will that Richard, his firstborn should be skipped and that his firstborn son should inherit. Then he put down that Nazi-condition saying that in case the firstborn son of Richard should marry the wrong women, then he should loose the inheritance.

If he stated it that way it would mean that the condition about the marriage is not valid for all potential heirs but only for the firstborn son. Or if the wording is that the condition is valid for all potential heirs, then we have to look further. Robin, Richard's brother, is married to a lady of non-noble descent. But he was married to a lady in his first marriage who came AFAIK from a Swedish noble family. Thus the son from this marriage would be heir as long as he is unmarried or married to the right kind of woman. If he marries a commoner, the next in line is to be searched who fullfills the condition.

But once an heir has married the right lady and stayed married to her till his death or did marry more than once but always to a lady fulfilling the condition or did not marry at all - this heir becomes in the moment of his death in the legal sense the owner of the fortune. So if he states in his will that the Berleburg fortune should be inherited by his legal heir, then it's without the condition of the old prince.

Okay, it's complicated. But that's inheritance laws for you.

In case the court case fails and the will is recognized as valid,
Gustav and Carina could live together, even get a son and Gustav could under current German law legitimize this child on adoption. Then this boy would be the next prince of Berleburg. As Gustav wouldn't be married till he died, he in the moment of his death would become the rightful owner of the Berleburg fortune and could leave it without conditions to his son and give some money to Carina as well. But she would always be plain Ms. Axelsson. But I guess if this is important for the Berleburg, queen Margarete or (at a later date) king Frederick would ennoble her just like they did with Alexandra.
 
Thank you for the interest explication. Certenly it´s very difficul to explaint!

But I have a question, let me explaint it well...
In case the court case fails and the will is recognized as valid, Pince Gustav can to renounce to his inheritance and marri with Carina? and in that case, who would be the Heir?
 
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Thank you for the interest explication. Certenly it´s very difficul to explaint!

But I have a question, let me explaint it well...
In case the court case fails and the will is recognized as valid, Pince Gustav can to renounce to his inheritance and marri with Carina? and in that case, who would be the Heir?

That is an information only the Berleburgs have so far as the will was never published AFAIK. But it's surely a quite difficult document, as it involved the fact that prince Richard either renounced his rights to the legal portion part to the Berleburg fortune (Vollerbe) or was forced to do it on facing disinheritance in case he didn't do it but became only Nutzniesser (the one who profits from the estate). That had tax reasons, I'm assured and the danger of the war had to do with it as a lot of estates were broken up by inheritance taxes during WWI when the heirs died one after the other and for each death tax had to be payed. So it made sense to leave the estate as the old prince did and for the family to wait till prince Richard came of legal age in order to have the old prince declared dead (he was missing in action in WWII).

It's only now that the question of marriage for Gustav arises and as long as we have no idea how the will is actually worded, we can't say who will be the heir after Gustav. Maybe Richard himself. Maybe Robin or even Robin's son.
 
the insights on things i could never have a clue about are one of the things i cherish about this board. thanks so much jo of palatine, it's great to have explained part of what this mess is all about.:flowers: (thanks especially since you don't have the will to read or interpret)

so to my understanding gustav and carina can have children and as long as they are not married? (their child? or adopted child? (no girls?:bang:) or SON can be heir in the will AFTER gustav dies. but if they marry it goes to the man/or son that married a noble, which would be richards first wife (gosh my head is spinning) ie: robin.
basically gustavs birthright for a piece of paper to appease a racist will from the last century (don't get me started about no girls allowed rule:bang::bang:)

i like carina she seems a lovely woman and i certainly don't think any less of the fact they aren't married. I'm thrilled she seems loved and accepted by the family and it's clear they consider her part of the DRF which imo means more than any legal document (great idea the queen giving her a title, for those pesky seating charts). btw if the queen gave carina a title, would that make her noble and allow a marriage? looks like a loophole to me:flowers:

court cases are long, expensive and always ugly, if lawyers haven't figured out a loophole, let it go- don't get married, be happy, have a wonderful life - i'm a hopeless romantic and nothing kills romance like getting married:ROFLMAO:;). imo they'll make beautiful babies and there can never be too many cute babies to awwww over.
 
btw if the queen gave carina a title, would that make her noble and allow a marriage? looks like a loophole to me:flowers:

Yes, Carina could convert to protestantism (if she isn't already one) and be ennobled by the queen but that wouldn't make her into an Aryan, as she has Mexican (latino?) blood. That's the reasonn why I think the whole stipulation is rascistic, contra bonos mores and thus illegal. But then again, it depends on the actual wording.
 
DISGUSTING- so if gustav had fallen in love with princess christina of spain they couldn't have married ie: latin blood. i mean thats just stupid when you think of all the dynastic marriages between the french, spanish, english, german, italian, greek etc royal houses over the centuries can you even find a "pure aryan" if you wanted too. lawyers love this kind of thing, the billing hours for research alone is probably millions. thanks again for your insight:)
 
what the hell is "pure aryan" anyway? it is disgusting that now in the 21st century wills like that could be upheld.
 
it's also disgusting that two world wars didn't settle the issue once and for all. dna aside all blood looks, clots and bleeds the same, .
 
it is disgusting that now in the 21st century wills like that could be upheld.

it's also disgusting that two world wars didn't settle the issue once and for all. dna aside all blood looks, clots and bleeds the same, .


"Disgusting" as it may be in this day and age, one must remember the time, place, context, and situation of when this Will was first assembled.
 
Since the discussion became so serious, here is something that might lighten the mood. I tried to find Carina's books on amazon. I found just one, for reading level ages 4-8, called Nigel, about a dragon (obviously called Nigel) who lives in London's Hyde Park. It's only $4.25 for members who want to buy it for the kids. It has two impressive reviews. :flowers:

If Gustav and Carina lose all the Berleburg goodies in consequence of their marriage, I think they would be most welcome to make a home here in Carina's native California. I would not complain. Yes, it would be sad, but there are many great things in life besides titles and heirlooms. No one needs to have a castle to enjoy life. I don't have a castle (unless you count the "Chewster castle" of my imagination) and enjoy my life everyday. :D
 
DISGUSTING- so if gustav had fallen in love with princess christina of spain they couldn't have married ie: latin blood. i mean thats just stupid when you think of all the dynastic marriages between the french, spanish, english, german, italian, greek etc royal houses over the centuries can you even find a "pure aryan" if you wanted too. lawyers love this kind of thing, the billing hours for research alone is probably millions. thanks again for your insight:)

Well, the thing about THAT is that even Infanta Cristina isn't completely Spanish. Queen Sofia is part Greek, part German, but realistically, she is pretty much all German through her ancestry. Even her Greek, Russian and Danish ancestors were ultimately not at all Danish, Greek or Russian, but from German families. As for Juan Carlos, he is more Spanish, but he has Italian and German and British (once again though, through Queen Ena, the Battenbergs and Princess Beatrice were still German) heritage. So Cristina, even though she is a Spanish princess could possibly still be in the running
 
How is this for a solution?

Couldn't Gustav and Carina marry in the United States, yet not marry in Germany? Then, Gustav would still be "unmarried" as far as Germany is concerned, but married in the U.S.?

Does this makes sense?
 
Well, yes, they could do that........... but why? Why marry at all? If they are able to live like a married couple anyway, live together, and his family treats her as they would treat his wife, having her at special events, etc. then what is the reason to alter the situation? They have what they need, to be together and accepted by their families and friends........
 
Well, Georg Friedrich and Gustav are in a similar situation: Gustav because of his grandfather´s will and Georg will get in big trouble with his uncles if he doesn´t marry a noble woman......
 
How is this for a solution?

Couldn't Gustav and Carina marry in the United States, yet not marry in Germany? Then, Gustav would still be "unmarried" as far as Germany is concerned, but married in the U.S.?

Does this makes sense?

US-marriages are acknowledged in Germany.
 
I feel so bad for these poor princes. Back when these monarchies were still around, I could see why it mattered, but in this day and age, it's a shame that they cannot marry their loves because of old family law.

Well, they can marry non-royal women of course, but they will lose some properties and their place as head of a house.
 
It's not that they cannot get married. They can. He would lose his home, his money, his heritage etc. His children, if they have any, would not get anything either. That is a huge compromise. They may live together, but under the eyes of the law, they are not a legitimate man and wife. Any children would not be legitimate. Gustav would put his children out of their heritage and in a similar situation like he is now.
 
Well, they can marry non-royal women of course, but they will lose some properties and their place as head of a house.

I feel so awful for these princes. While their relatives in the reigning royal houses can feel free to marry commoners without having to give up their rights, they ironically can't. You would think it would be the OTHER way around!

IMO, I feel if you love someone enough, having the money and property and social standing wouldn't be important. Call me a a hopeless romantic but I certainly wouldn't put my life on hold to fight over a will that denies me the right to marry my true love. To heck with it I say!;)
 
It's not that they cannot get married. They can. He would lose his home, his money, his heritage etc. His children, if they have any, would not get anything either. That is a huge compromise. They may live together, but under the eyes of the law, they are not a legitimate man and wife. Any children would not be legitimate. Gustav would put his children out of their heritage and in a similar situation like he is now.

Please let me stae again that Gustav in today's Germany can acknowledge any child he has fathered and give this child the heritage any child born to a marriage has as well. That is not a problem any more.
 
Well, whatever they do........ shoot, Carina is simply gorgeous. Breathtakingly beautiful, and so exotic. I wonder if she ever pinches herself to remind herself it's not a fantastic dream, being in love with this cool prince and living in a castle and being practically best friends with the coolest Crown Prince couple on the planet...... :D
 
Perhaps, but she is a very smart woman, and maybe Prince Gustav is the one who is pinching himself over the fact his love is well rounded.

Besides writing several books (one which is still being produced), she, like Queen Margrethe, is an accomplished artist. All of the artwork in her Nigel books are by Carina.

Prior to moving to Bad Berleburg, Carina was working as an artist as well as working as a calligrapher at a well-known store. She also dabbles in photography and other aspects of design.
 
Well, Georg Friedrich and Gustav are in a similar situation: Gustav because of his grandfather´s will and Georg will get in big trouble with his uncles if he doesn´t marry a noble woman......

They need to step into the 21st century. Georg better start working on his situation now! :rolleyes: He may fall in love with a regular girl too.
 
According to Billed Bladet, Carina Axelsson won Best Dressed Royal Woman for 2007 in their annual thingamajig.

Click here to read the article plus see a beautiful [URL="http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/KateGT/50242561_13847009_display.jpg"]photo[/URL] of Carina (which was from an event she attended with Princess Benedikte as well as Prince Gustav last year.)


Several weeks ago, I noted that Carina established the Nigel Awards which hands out various prizes to the best stories by the local kids. These awards not only encourage the children of Bad Berleburg to express themselves through creative writing, but through art via painting and so forth. There is now a German [URL="http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/bad-berleburg/2007/11/19/news-5676754/detail.html"]article[/URL] which notes:

Carina Axelsson wanted more life in the castle walls of the old royal residence. That is the culturally dedicated and courageous woman with a lot of charm and her idea succeeded.

As well as this article from the Bad Berleburg official website detailing the event, when, where, etc.

166 pupils the primary schools in Bad Berleburg have on the first Nigel Award, the Children and Youth Award for Creative Writing and Illustration by Carina Axelsson. The small dragon Nigel images from the book by Carina Axelsson provided the inspiration for the prize. The enthusiasm of the children's book author is on the young artists and writers übergesprungen (I don't know the English word, sorry) that shows only the lively participation.


Carina thought of the idea, with strong support from Gustav and blessings from Princess Benedikte, for the prize after reading her first book, Nigel, to the children. There are several photos which you can view,here, here, here, here, here, and url.

According to the article, Carina hopes to make the Nigel Awards a yearly event. Bravo, Carina!

There are many, many more photos, but I believe these will do for now.

Also, this past holiday, Princess Benedikte along with Carina Axelsson hosted a party at Schloss Berleburg. [url=http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/KateGT/50242561_13847009_display.jpg]Here[/URL] is a photo from the event and the article.


*I would like to give a big thank you to Stig for finding the German article.*:)
 
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With all the complications surrounding this, I don't think a legal decision is coming any time soon. I think the best possible solution to the problem is to continue on as they are. Any children can inherit, the parents don't have to be married.

Moving to California, and specifically to Santa Cruz is an interesting idea. I think it would be a huge culture shock to Gustav to live there full time. It's a wonderful place for a vacation, though.
 
You never know.

The situation may suddenly turn in his favor, but in the meantime, it's great to know that [url=http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/KateGT/BBno107ChristmasFredens06-Ben.jpg]Carina[/URL] has not only been accepted by DRF, but by the people of Bad Berleburg.

She has established the Nigel Award, accompanying several official events with Princess Benedikte and Prince [url=http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/KateGT/BB48CG.jpg]Gustav[/URL] (one in Denmark and recently attending a Christmas event for the senior citizens of Bad Berleburg) as well as helping to restore the schloss.

There are several other events she has participated in since moving to Germany such as attending a town festival with [url=http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/KateGT/BB27-GC5.jpg]Gustav[/URL] as well as various noble weddings, a royal birthday in Sweden, and other activities in Denmark.

Again, she has accomplished quite a bit, and I cannot imagine that should would want to leave her adopted town and country for California... I know I wouldn't.:)
 
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Since it's been incredibly slow on the Danish Royal family front, I decided to look around for some articles on the other members of the DRF, and I found this article from June 2007, regarding [URL="http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/KateGT/Carina-o-Gustav.jpg"]Carina[/URL] and [URL="http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/KateGT/gal_carina06.jpg"]Gustav[/URL] from [URL="http://www.kvp.se/nyheter/1.724625"]KVP.se[/URL].

The writer discusses their relationship and notes that she is the "most interesting..." out of the all the ladies -- wifes, girlfriends, etc. The article goes on to discuss the issue regarding the Will as well a detailing her journey as a model starting in San Francisco, to NYC, and finally ending up in Paris where she appeared in French Vogue as well as Marie Claire magazines to name a few. We all know the rest of the story -- she quit modelling became an illustrator, wrote a book, met Gustav, moved to Berleburg -- in the end, it's a nice article.


Finally, another article this time from the Swedish paper/magazine [URL="http://www.svenskdamtidning.se/Sites/SvDam/Default____37321.aspx"]Svensk Damtidning[/URL]. The author gives the reader a bit more insight into her life. For example, Carina has a brother named Erik who is studying history and a younger sister named Liselotte, who works with computers (I think computer graphics, but I'm not sure.) The article notes how her parents, Bertil and Alicia, met each other and their life together with the kids in Santa Cruz.

Apparently, Carina has extended family in Sweden, one of whom Margit Axelsson, spoke with Swede Damtidning. I believe the article states that she visited her family in Sweden with Gustav (I can't make it out so if you are fluent in Swedish and would like to translate that part of the article -- using your own words -- I would appreciate it.)

The article ends, again, with stuff that we already know:
32
5'7"
Brown hair and eyes
Parents: Bertil and Alicia
Siblings: Erik and Lisel
Santa Cruz
Model
NYC
Moved to Paris in 1995
Former assistant to John Galliano
Illustrator
Attended the Ecole Boulle in Paris for design and illustration
Author of the book, Nigel in Hyde Park
Has a book deal with Assouline Publishing
Currently working on her third book
Loves European history and Country Life magazine
Decorating
Moved to scholss Berleburg in mid 2006
the Will
and Life Companion (as one German article called in, which can be read two posts above) of Prince Gustav.
Wears a ruby and diamond [URL="http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/bad-berleburg/2007/11/19/news-5676754/slideshow.html?resourceId=25"]ring[/URL] on her ring finger, by the way. I'm sure it's a promise ring.;)


Finally, just to let you know I don't speak Swedish -- as if you couldn't tell:D -- and still a bad beginner when it comes to Danish, so if I made any grave mistakes and would like to translate the article -- using your own words -- please do so. We would all appreciate it.

:flowers:
 
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Does anyone know where Carina's parents and siblings live now?
 
It's south of San Francisco and north of Monterey. The population is smaller than Los Angeles, but I personally wouldn't call it a small town. There are a lot of old hippies, artists, skaters, and surfers in SC so it's kind of funky, but in a good way.

Santa Cruz is a beautiful place so if you are ever in San Fran head on down to SC and also take a drive to Carmel. You won't regret it.:flowers:
 
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