Grand Ducal House of Baden (Zahringen)

[Stefan]

There's a new article about the schloss in Volkskrant.nl orginally posted by a member of royals portal.

Perhaps Stefan or another member can give their insight regarding this matter.

At the moment there is nothing new. There are talks between the Government of Baden-Württemberg and the Family what to do as according to the expertise made for the Government of Baden-Württemberg most of the Handwritings alreada belong the the Country. The Baden-Family sees this of course different.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Thank you, Stefan.

I sure hope everything works out for the best in the end. I would hate to see it turn into a hotel or something worse. Salem has such great historical value, I believe, and shouldn't be placed in the wrong hands.

 

[Harold]

Any further news on Schloss Salem?

 

[Avicenna]

Any further news on Schloss Salem?

Grüne sind gegen Stiftung | suedkurier.de

Latest news on this topic - January 29, 2008

Some members of the green party visited the Castle. Generally they want to maintain it as cultural heritage. However, they dislike the suggested foundation and prefer to buy to site.

The article is out of the local newspaper "Südkurier". Normally a reliable source.
After all I am reading it daily, too .

 

[Jason R Maier esq]

Thank you, Stefan.

I sure hope everything works out for the best in the end. I would hate to see it turn into a hotel or something worse. Salem has such great historical value, I believe, and shouldn't be placed in the wrong hands.

Yeah . . . I don't want to see a historic castle turned into something commercial like a hotel . . .

And it's too bad about the debts/bad investments.

 

[Harold]

If I understand the article correctly - and I depend on Google translations - the Green party wants the state of Baden-Wurttemburg to take over ownership of the Schloss directly rather than some sort of foundation taking ownership. In any event, I would think it doubtful that the Grand Ducal family can remain there. What do you think?

 

[Avicenna]

If I understand the article correctly - and I depend on Google translations - the Green party wants the state of Baden-Wurttemburg to take over ownership of the Schloss directly rather than some sort of foundation taking ownership. In any event, I would think it doubtful that the Grand Ducal family can remain there. What do you think?

Right now it is difficult to assume things. But after all silence is probably better than open discussions in the media. Hopefully they will find a solution which will serve everyone.

Anyway it is my understanding that Bernhard, Prinz von Baden, and his family do not live on the premises but closeby in a separate mansion. About his father I do not know.

And when it comes to commercial use - such as a hotel - I wouldn't decline this solution either. As long as they keep the nature of the premises and don't destroy cultural heritage ... the protection of historic monuments is quite important here. Plenty of restrictions set up.

 

[Stefan]

Right now it is difficult to assume things. But after all silence is probably better than open discussions in the media. Hopefully they will find a solution which will serve everyone.

Anyway it is my understanding that Bernhard, Prinz von Baden, and his family do not live on the premises but closeby in a separate mansion. About his father I do not know.

And when it comes to commercial use - such as a hotel - I wouldn't decline this solution either. As long as they keep the nature of the premises and don't destroy cultural heritage ... the protection of historic monuments is quite important here. Plenty of restrictions set up.

The Margrave and the Margravine of Baden live at Salem. They have some appartements in the same Wing where the Kaisersaal is. There is also a private Garden at this side of the Castle which is not open for the public.

 

[Avicenna]

Haus Baden hofft weiter | suedkurier.de

Today's Südkurier had the above article ... Hope for the "Haus Baden". Bernhard, Prinz von Baden, mentioned no details, but believes that a long-term solution will be found. They are still talking ... Further news on Schloss Salem am Bodensee - Willkommen!.

 

[Stefan]

Today the newest rumours are that an arabian Investor want's to buy Salem Castle. But nothing is really known about it.

2 articles in german:

Salem: Arabischer Investor für Schloss Salem? - Nachrichten | SWR.de

Laut Zeitungsbericht: Araber wollen Schloss Salem - Stuttgarter Nachrichten online

 

[Avicenna]

Today the newest rumours are that an arabian Investor want's to buy Salem Castle. But nothing is really known about it.

2 articles in german:

Salem: Arabischer Investor für Schloss Salem? - Nachrichten | SWR.de

Laut Zeitungsbericht: Araber wollen Schloss Salem - Stuttgarter Nachrichten online

... and another one in our local newspaper "Schwäbische Zeitung": SZON - Araber wollen Schloss Salem kaufen
Actually it made it on the front page, huge picture included.

BTW there is another piece on the point of view of the Markgrafen-Family ("the boarding school stays"):
SZON - Haus Baden liegt kein Angebot von arabischem Investor für Salem vor

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Thank you for linking the articles, Avicenna. The second piece is very interesting.

Personally speaking, I loathe foreign investors and buyers. Many times they say one thing, but once a property or what ever is bought, they turn around and do the complete opposite. Such a disgrace.

 

[Stefan]

Thank you for linking the articles, Avicenna. The second piece is very interesting.

Personally speaking, I loathe foreign investors and buyers. Many times they say one thing, but once a property or what ever is bought, they turn around and do the complete opposite. Such a disgrace.

And exactly this is was happened with the Neue Schloß at Baden-Baden which the Baden-Family sold a few years ago. The buyer an Investor wanted to turn it into an Hotel but no it is closed entire for the public and nothing is happening there.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Where is the German equivalent of the National Trust for Historic Preservation and/or National Register of Historic Places in all this?

 

[Stefan]

Where is the German equivalent of the National Trust for Historic Preservation and/or National Register of Historic Places in all this?

I think there is no one for all Germany but most federal Staate have their own.

For example
Staatliche Schlösser und Gärten Baden Württemberg: Schloesser-Magazin: Portal > Ãœbersicht

Schlöser Bayern: Bayerische Verwaltung der staatlichen Schlösser, Gärten und Seen | Startseite

etc.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Great links, Stefan, thank you.

It's just so frustrating, as a potential public historian/preservationist, to see such an amazing place with great historical value, not only for the people but German national identity as well, go to waste on foreign investors with other ideas in mind.

 

[Avicenna]

newspaper hoax?

Source: Südkurier online
Zeitungsente kreist über Salem | suedkurier.de

Well, well, after all these media reports in several newspapers/TV the headmaster of the Salem boarding school was happy to telephone with this Singapur lawyer ... in order to find out that things weren't said in the same way the media published them.

Furtheron the family declines any knowledge of an arabian buyer and the mayor believes the plan of a German-Arabian cultural center in Salem is impossible to realize.

Independent of the truth of yesterday's news a CDU politician named Theo Wieland (member of the county assembly and town council) believes the rumours could only spread because of the inactivity/hesitation of the federal state of Baden-Württemberg .... BTW I believe my former teacher is perfectly right with his judgement. Wise man.

 

[Avicenna]

All clear

SZON - Schloss Salem: Katar-Fonds winkt ab

At least one worry about the fate of Schloss Salem vanished into thin air: the state-run fonds of Katar is no more interested ... or so this article of today says. However, there are obviously other interested parties coming from the Arab region. Stay tuned!

 

[Marengo]

Thanks for keeping us updated Avicenna! I was wondering, is a buyer free to do with the castle as he pleases, or are there certain restrictions by the state (not allowed to change the facede, not allowed to make an appartment building out of it and such)

 

[Avicenna]

Thanks for keeping us updated Avicenna! I was wondering, is a buyer free to do with the castle as he pleases, or are there certain restrictions by the state (not allowed to change the facede, not allowed to make an appartment building out of it and such)

Marengo, unfortunatly I am no expert when it comes to questions concerning the protection of historical monuments. From hearsay I do know that things become difficult once a monument is considered historical, e.g. we had a historical school right on the waterfront in Überlingen and it took literally years until it was worked out how it could be used and converted. Finally they agreed to keep the outside facade, but removed most inside walls in order to accomodate a restaurant and offices. But then this former school was nowhere near the historical importance of Schloss Salem!

What I found is the following link: Deutsche Stiftung Denkmalschutz:: Obj5654 Zisterzienserabtei Salem

If indeed subsidies were paid for the maintenance of the castle there will certainly be some sort of default clause in the agreement concering the payments. However, please note this is an assumption. Maybe there is an expert on the board concerning these questions?

 

[Next Star]

Sad that the Badens have to sell a piece of their family history like this Scholsser Salem Castle to pay off a debt.What a pity!!

 

[Avicenna]

Sad that the Badens have to sell a piece of their family history like this Scholsser Salem Castle to pay off a debt.What a pity!!

But maybe in the long run better for the estate. Last year there was a news report saying that they stop on maintenance in order to save money and will only do what is really, really urgent. Now, if you economize like this for too long, it might be worse for the castle than selling it to someone who can afford to pay regular maintenance.

 

[Odette]

Avicenna: When I go from Zurich towards the Bodensee and get the ferry across to Germany at Meersburg, there is right on the lake a large castle that serves as a hotel. The rooms are as they used to be, huge and are furnished with antiques. I believe they have about 25 rooms. There is the tower with the spiral staircase and the restaurant is open to the public and the guests.
If you know which castle I am talking about can you tell me if this was ever a property of a local noble and what is the history behind it?
Thank you
odette

 

[Avicenna]

Odette, I am not sure which building you mean. Is it in Meersburg? Next to the ferry-harbor? This could only be the so called "Wilder Mann". But they have 55 rooms .... and it is not a castle, though it certainly looks impressive.

Strandhotel "Wilder Mann"

Please let me know, if this is what you mean.

Otherwise there is a former monastary south of the Birnau basilica, in a short distance. Or are you talking of the other side of the lake: Konstanz?
Please spezify. But probably it is better to send me a mail as this is not related to the Baden-Family-thread.

 

[Next Star]

But maybe in the long run better for the estate. Last year there was a news report saying that they stop on maintenance in order to save money and will only do what is really, really urgent. Now, if you economize like this for too long, it might be worse for the castle than selling it to someone who can afford to pay regular maintenance.

They could given the castle to a close or distant cousin of the family and still keep it in the family.And The cousin or cousins could keep maintance of the castle there is more than one option in case well atleast in my modest opinion.

 

[Stefan]

They could given the castle to a close or distant cousin of the family and still keep it in the family.And The cousin or cousins could keep maintance of the castle there is more than one option in case well atleast in my modest opinion.

To which Cousin should they give it? Prince Ludwig the brother of Margrave max has his own Castle Zwingenberg and there are no riich relatives. The problem is that at Salem a lot of Work has to be done for example they said that the roof has to made new. Anmd for the entire estate that woulsd cost a few Millions €. And they Family don't want to put more Money in it. Last year a Credit from the Banks of about 30 millions € to pay back.

 

[Next Star]

To which Cousin should they give it? Prince Ludwig the brother of Margrave max has his own Castle Zwingenberg and there are no riich relatives. The problem is that at Salem a lot of Work has to be done for example they said that the roof has to made new. Anmd for the entire estate that woulsd cost a few Millions €. And they Family don't want to put more Money in it. Last year a Credit from the Banks of about 30 millions € to pay back.

There are too many cousins they could have gone towards the ones who are rich and asked them if their willing to keep the castle and repair it.Then if not that is when they could have sold the castle to someone outside of the family.

 

[Avicenna]

Messen in Deutschland, Österreich und Luxemburg: Home & Garden, das Original mit vielen attraktiven Standorten

Home and garden exibition takes places next week at Schloss Salem ... hope it won't be too much of a traffic jam. In particular the Santana concert this summer caused quite a chaos in the region. A nightmare for those people just living there and not interested in the concert.

 

[Avicenna]

They could given the castle to a close or distant cousin of the family and still keep it in the family.And The cousin or cousins could keep maintance of the castle there is more than one option in case well atleast in my modest opinion.

Next Star, frankly I doubt there is someone around in the family who can afford the upkeep. But tell me, have you ever seen the premises? They are huge, really huge, including not only the famous boarding school, but a minster as well as several museums & little shops. Also it is an entertainment business, quite a few concerts and other events going on, e.g. yesterday's Bachakademie which presented Schuberts "Unvollendete" or next weeks Home and garden show. And there are famous people performing here. No, not Madonna, but e.g. last year Lang Lang.

Here is a link (unfortunatly in German only) Schloss Salem am Bodensee - Willkommen! But at least you can see the pictures to get an idea what we are talking about.

 

[Warren]

Schloss Salem

1. Part of Schloss Salem
2. An aerial view showing the size and extent of the Schloss Salem complex.

Images not subject to copyright - Wikipedia free use provision.