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  #61  
Old 01-08-2011, 07:20 PM
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This is quite close to home for me I have been doing research and eberhard graf was a noble at some stage or considered one hence the reason why my great grandmother Catherine fredricka Graf called my grandfather fredrich Eberhard your highness something graf. he has now passed away I have discovered they were quite prominent family in the military however in the reign of hitler they revolted against him with the anti nazi group due to the poor treatment of their own soldiers they were not jewish and were not in prison camps to the best of my knowledge. They fled germany so that my grandfather aged 17 did not have to join hitlers army as my grandfather was in the special military school age 12. I pressume if he was to return to germany he would of been in alot of troublee and possibly killed.

I have found info linking them to politcians in that day and further back 200 years Eberhard Graf was of some noble ranking located in the wikipedia. It is very hard to decifer the exact origin and how far back it goes as I do not speak german nor understand it in written language. any finding on this would be greatly appreciated.
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  #62  
Old 01-09-2011, 04:04 AM
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i wonder if anyony could explain the difference between the use of Baron and Frieherr.

I have been researching the descendents of the electress Sophia and note that there are several instances where many generations are Barons and then there is a change to Frieherr.

Are the terms interchangable?
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  #63  
Old 01-09-2011, 06:52 AM
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Kind of, Baron and Freiherr are of equal ranks. If a family head is Baron or Freiherr was determined by patent of nobility and the GHdA (basically same as the Gotha). But in everyday life the Freiherr was often addressed as Baron.
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  #64  
Old 07-11-2012, 05:22 PM
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Actually, you can call a freiherr a baron, but not backwards.
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  #65  
Old 09-28-2012, 07:38 AM
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German Titles

Hello Everyone,

I am coming to terms with German titles [forgive my ignorance] and have come across the term "Freigraf". May I ask if this is in a similar vein to "Freiherr" or is it something altogether different. GOOGLE isn't very revealing here and I wondered if a German speaker could advise?

Best wishes

Baron Montreuil
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  #66  
Old 09-28-2012, 08:05 AM
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I am not a German speaker, per se, but I can tell you that broken down the word means (frei) "free" and (graf) "count". What I cannot tell you is what that means in the context of traditional German titles.
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  #67  
Old 09-28-2012, 08:11 AM
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According to Wikipedia:
Freigraf Free Count Frei = free (allodial?) + Graf; both a feudal title of comital rank and a more technical office
Source: Graf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The technical office seems to have to do with being a judge at the Vehmic courts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehmic_court
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  #68  
Old 09-28-2012, 12:46 PM
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Yes, thank you. I have no sense of whether Freigraf is a title [peerage] or whether or not it is a designation for a position at court. There is some idea that it may be a feudal title and that is fascinating. In the UK we have feudal comital titles often found in Scotland and Freigraf may be similar. Any German speakers out there?
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  #69  
Old 09-28-2012, 01:19 PM
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Freigraf: The German Wikipedia claims a Freigraf was the chairman of a medieval court, the so called Femegericht. Every commoner was able to get appointed as a Freigraf too. Graf So it is no feudal title. There were other non-feudal Grafs too, for example the Graf responsible for the water dams, the Deichgraf.
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  #70  
Old 09-28-2012, 01:35 PM
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It seems that the Frei in Freigraf have a connection to being a Freeman, not a serf, being a member of what in England was called the Franklins, Franklin (class) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #71  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:26 AM
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A freiherr or freigraf, meaning free lord and free count, was an immediate subject of the Emperor in the Holy Roman Empire and not anyone else. It was a high privilege for those who held status of a freelord. Imperial immediacy was a kind of sovereignty among the nobles of the HRE. Those houses that held imperial immediacy during the Empire were later considered equal with rulling houses of Europe. It was a case when a dynastic or morganatic nature of a marriage between a royal and a noble was considered.
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  #72  
Old 08-23-2013, 11:20 PM
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What is the proper closing in German for a formal letter (an invitation) to a member of the Imperial Families of Austria or Germany?
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  #73  
Old 09-06-2013, 10:32 AM
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It had been cleared out on the first pages of this thread what is the difference in titles between "von" and "zu". But what about "zur"? It's used in Lippe title. Why "zur"?
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  #74  
Old 12-02-2013, 02:34 PM
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Here is an interesting report about titles and successions in Germany after WW1:

Wie aus: Prinzen: Fürsten: werden | MAIN-POST Nachrichten für Franken, Bayern und die Welt

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  #75  
Old 12-02-2013, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nithsdale View Post
It had been cleared out on the first pages of this thread what is the difference in titles between "von" and "zu". But what about "zur"? It's used in Lippe title. Why "zur"?
"Lippe" is the name of a river, and in German, like in some other languages, the names of rivers (unlike cities or countries) are used with articles. Now, “zur” is the contraction of “zu” (=to) and the feminine article (as the Lippe is feminine). So basically “zur Lippe” means “to the Lippe”.
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  #76  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:00 AM
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Really, in this day and age does it truly matter? And they certainly are not by any stretch of the imagination "ruling" families. And didn't I read somewhere that in Germany titles such as "Prince" have been declared illegal? Is this true?
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  #77  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:03 AM
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A book by a Countess of Brühl (noblesse oblige) it's said that noble women who marry commoner loose their noble status for the time of the marrriage and are cut out of the family (if the family is still very traditional). So may be his sisters didn't want to face that - esp. because the eldest sister of the Prince don't seem to be integrated in the family (married noble, but divorced and remarried a commoner).
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  #78  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:04 AM
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I've read that in Germany and Austria, royal and noble titles aren't recognized by the government, e.g. Archduke Otto of Austria was known as Mr. Otto von Hasburg, despite the fact that he was the pretending Crown Prince. (The current pretender to the Austrian Throne is simply known as Mr. Karl von Hasburg.) As a German example, the Prince of Prussia is known as Mr. Friedrich von Pressuen. I think Alexander would be known as something like "Mr./Herr Alexander von Isenburg", although I'm not completely sure on this one.
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  #79  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarNoe View Post
Really, in this day and age does it truly matter? And they certainly are not by any stretch of the imagination "ruling" families. And didn't I read somewhere that in Germany titles such as "Prince" have been declared illegal? Is this true?

Prince is not a title anymore but a part of the name:

Legal name of Alexander: Alexander Prinz von Isenburg -> Prinz of Isenburg is the full last name like Miller or Huntington-Whitely.
Noble name (used in nobility and magazines and as a sign of honor on invitations etc.): Erbprinz Alexander von Isenburg
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  #80  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:08 AM
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In Austria it's just the family name without titles like Habsburg, Windisch-Grätz or Traun.
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