German Royal and Noble Titles & Protocols

[Odette]

Am I correct to assume that titles are no longer recognized by the State but the various princely houses and dukedoms, still exist?
Perhaps in official papers the various houses cannot be recognized as Princes or Dukes, but these same families still have possesion of their castles and property and titles?
I believe I read that those families whose property was behind the iron curtain could get their family properties back after the reunification.
The Thurn and Taxis for example are known as princes even though the German State does not recognize their titles. Is this correct?
Is this also the reason why Princess Benedikte is still Princess of Danemark? If Prince Richard's title is not recognized she could lose the title of Princess by marrying him?

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

..what does " Reichsfuersten" mean? As far as I can translate, it is "Imperial" + "Prince"

Yes, just that. Princes who were made 'Princes of the Empire' by the Holy Roman Emperor (who was later the Emperor of Austria). There are other Houses where the Princely rank comes from elsewhere, eg the Princely House von Wrede, a creation by the King of Bavaria in 1814, or Prince of Battenberg, a title granted by the Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine. Imperial Princes and Imperial Counts have a higher status.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Warren

Yes, just that. Princes who were made 'Princes of the Empire' by the Holy Roman Emperor (who was later the Emperor of Austria). There are other Houses where the Princely rank comes from elsewhere, eg the Princely House von Wrede, a creation by the King of Bavaria in 1814. Imperial Princes and Imperial Counts have a higher status.

Other cases are the Fürsten zu Castell-Castell and Castell-Rüdenhausen or the Fürsten zu Stolberg-Stolberg and Stolberg-Wernigerode.

[NotAPretender]

Originally Posted by Odette

Is this also the reason why Princess Benedikte is still Princess of Danemark? If Prince Richard's title is not recognized she could lose the title of Princess by marrying him?

In the case of Princess Benedikte, her title and style of Princess is by birth and remains the "superior" title as the daughter of a reigning monarch; she can never lose that title but she could gain a greater one. As it happens, she married a "lesser" title so her higher title of Princess of Denmark comes first.

This is similar to Princess Anne of GB remaining a Princess although she married two consecutive commoners; she never was "demoted" to "Mrs. Phillips" as her primary title and style.

[MAfan]

I was reading a genealogy of Schaffgotsch Family, whose member's title is Graf Schaffgotsch gen. Semperfrei von und zy Kynast und Greiffenstein, Frhr zu Trachenberg.
What does "gen." mean?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by MAfan

I was reading a genealogy of Schaffgotsch Family, whose member's title is Graf Schaffgotsch gen. Semperfrei von und zy Kynast und Greiffenstein, Frhr zu Trachenberg.
What does "gen." mean?

It is short for genannt which translates to called

[MAfan]

and what does it means? what is the sense of "Schaffgotsch called Semperfrei..."?

[jcasey170]

Out of interest, what is the surname of people such as Jutta Jorn, once they have divorced a Prinz von Preussen? I assume while married she would have been H.R.H. Jutta Prinzessin von Preussen? I was wondering if she became plain Jutta von Preussen on divorce? Thanks :)

[MAfan]

I know that "Prinz/Prinzessin von Preussen" is used as personal surname by the members of the Family; we have to see what german law state about the surname of divorced women...maybe can some German friend enlighten us?

[claypoint2]

Out of curiosity (although perhaps slightly off topic), does anyone know what are the other examples of families in which all the members are styled Fürst or Fürstin?

Also, a question for clarification: Are all of the Wrede family called Fürst or Fürstin because they received their title from the King of Bavaria rather that from the Holy Roman Emperor? In other words, if I were to learn that a particular family acquired its princely title from a Bavarian king instead of the HRE, would it be safe to assume that all members of that family are styled Fürst? Or could there be other reasons -- for example, that at some point a head of that family decreed that the title of Fürst would apply to all?

Thank you in advance.

[MAfan]

I don't know exactly why al the members of this family are Furst or Furstin, but I don't think that it's because their is a bavarian title and not an austrian one.
About the other families whose members have this particular title, I know only the family of the Dukes of Hohenberg, whose members are Furst/Furstin, while the head if Duke.

[Stefan]

It's also the Case for the Urach's. There like why the Hohenbergs the head is Duke and the other members are Fürst/Fürstin. And for the Tecks it was also the Case.

[amedea]

But also Liechtensteins, Windish-graetz, Furstenbergs, Lobkowicz, Croys (just to say some) are all Princes (that's the same as Furst isn't it?): nobody mentioned them because the're meditized houses? or because there's a difference between "prince von und zu" and "prince zu"?

[MAfan]

Furst is the title, translated as Prince, for the Head of a Princely Family; other members of the family are Prinz/Prinzessin, except for some families (Wrede, Hohenberg, Urach) where all members are Fursten.
Another question is the difference between von, zu and von und zu (or vuz): von is linked to the place where the family come from, zu is linked to the place where the family live, vuz is linked to both (an example: Fursten vuz Liechtenstein, they come from Liechtenstein and they live and rule there).

[Next Star]

Question are there any German families that hold imperial highness and grand ducal highess in modern times?
Thanks in advance.

[MBGGfvB]

Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preussen is HI&RH.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Next Star

Question are there any German families that hold imperial highness and grand ducal highess in modern times?
Thanks in advance.

No. The rank and style of Imperial Highness was limited to the Hohenzollerns of Prussia after they united the German duchies, principalities and kingdoms into the Empire under Wilhelm I in 1871.

Prior to the Empire, the members of the family were HRH as Prussia was a kingdom, a style they continued to use along with their imperial rank.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by branchg

No. The rank and style of Imperial Highness was limited to the Hohenzollerns of Prussia after they united the German duchies, principalities and kingdoms into the Empire under Wilhelm I in 1871.

Prior to the Empire, the members of the family were HRH as Prussia was a kingdom, a style they continued to use along with their imperial rank.

It was only the Crown Princely Couple who where Imperail and Royal Highness. All the other members of the prussian Royal Familiy where Royal Highness.

[Warren]

A further detail, only the Kaiser and Kaiserin and Crown Prince and Crown Princess had Imperial German titles: German Emperor and King of Prussia, and Crown Prince of the German Empire and of Prussia. The children of the Crown Prince were TRH Princes and Princesses of Prussia.

Prince Louis Ferdinand took the style and title of HI&RH Prince of Prussia as Head of the Imperial and Royal House of Prussia, and his grandson Georg Friedrich has followed suit.
.

[maria-olivia]

He is still HI&RH am sure Prince Georg will never marry a communor.
Why not Maria laura of Belgium or Alexandra of Luxembourg or Maria Anonciata of Liechtenstein ??
I wonder why Archiduke Otto allowed his son Karl's strange and impossible wedding ?
Karl will be a (divorced, he may not) but separeted Head of the Imperial House of Habsburg.