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  #81  
Old 11-29-2005, 08:34 AM
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And a last word. For me it is normal for her to be called "royal highness" it's a courtesy title without any rights. Caroline of Monaco, who married the head of the House of Hannover, became a Royal Highness, despite that Hannover it's not a kingdom since one century, but EA is still a Royal highness, and he will still continue to be. In the same way MC could have this title.

But in the other hand, EA & Caroline are PRINCES but not Crownprinces, so why Pavlos & MC are CROWNprinces? for this I do not agree, as legally & Constitutionnally, Greece is not a Kingdom anymore!!
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  #82  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003
But in the other hand, EA & Caroline are PRINCES but not Crownprinces, so why Pavlos & MC are CROWNprinces? for this I do not agree, as legally & Constitutionnally, Greece is not a Kingdom anymore!!
You've answered your own question. Legally and constitutionally Pavlos and Marie Chantal are not Crown Prince and Crown Princess of Greece. However, these are titles and constitutional legalities are not relevant. Pavlos was born a Crown Prince and retains the title to this day. Similarly, Royal Highness is a style and a courtesy. Within a certain social caste these things are relevant and important, to many other people they are not. Don't worry about it. :)
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  #83  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:28 AM
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Thanks for clarifying. I've cought the difference between Pavlos and EA. It's like be a President. Once you have been a President you keep the title for your entire life. EA was never a CP, Pavlos yes!
I do not worry, I also believe that courtesy is important, and if I meet MC i'll call her "Royal highness", why not?
Once I've met Queen Sophia, she is wonderfull and lovely, I've even tried to make a short reverence!!! I did not learn to do it, but I tried, I respect her and her title.
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  #84  
Old 12-17-2005, 02:51 AM
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EA's HRH style is still valid because the Hanovers are also Princes of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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  #85  
Old 12-17-2005, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraMCS
EA's HRH style is still valid because the Hanovers are also Princes of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
cough***there are not***cough.

1. The HRH style is reserved to:
  • the children of a sovereign
  • the children of sons of a sovereign (that is, grandchildren in the male line of a sovereign)
  • the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales (alt.talk.royalty)
So unless lilibeth have a 'little' secret (:p), Ernst is not more of a RH than Pavlos.

2. Actually even their Prince of Great Britain and Northern England title has no legal basis. Granted, Ernst is direct descendant to Queen Victoria through male line and is on the list of the British succession. But this title was auto-awarded by one of his ancestor, who, when the the monarchy was abolished, proclaimed that his family will be know as Princes of the UK bla bla bla...
The thing is Kings of Hanover are not Kings of England and they have no right to grant themselves British titles.
It's about as legal as if E II declared tomorrow that she shall be HIH princess Elizabeth of Japan, because she likes the sound of it.
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  #86  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:37 PM
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From a legal standpoint, Ernst-August is no longer a Royal Highness and Prince of the UK because the Titles Deprivation Act removed his family from the peerage and stripped their British titles, honors and royal rank for supporting Germany during World War I.

However, because Ernst's father won a lawsuit in the UK under the Sophia Naturalization Act in the 60's, the family's British citizenship was restored as the lineal descendants of the Electress Sophia. At that time, he issued a royal decree stating all members of the family would continue to be styled HRH and Prince/Princess of Great Britain and Ireland.

The Queen did not object (which she most certainly could have as the Sovereign) and they have continued to seek her permission to marry under the Royal Marriages Act. As the direct descendants of George III, it seems HM is willing to allow the Hanovers to retain their historical styles, but they hold no rank or title in the UK.
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  #87  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
Ernst is not more of a RH than Pavlos.
Not true. The Hanovers are Royal Highnesses by assent from the Queen, although they hold no British honours officially. The Greek Royal House is part of the Danish Royal Family as well, but are not permitted to be Royal Highnesses under their rules (with the exception of Anne-Marie, who remains HRH Princess of Denmark as the daughter and sister of Danish Sovereigns).
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  #88  
Old 12-17-2005, 06:29 PM
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Talking

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Originally Posted by dakodas
Gee, I miss the days when a king was a king and a prince was a prince regardless of what the people thought of them. Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette weren't any less of a king and queen because people hated them. Before those things like revolutions and modern republics and democracies, men were kings because GOD wanted them to be. It was refreshing in its simplicity.
Well, now the "princes" and "princesses" are marrying people who are not royal and, therefore, there is more of a chance for people to question "monarchies." Kings and queens were well respected. Today, you have a Mette-Marit, who is now the image of purity, when she was actually a party girl...far from a princess behavior...Then you have Letizia who was married before and no one ever heard about her ex again. Then you have Maxima whose father had something to do with Videla in Argentina, etc. These things cause people to talk...it is just human nature...
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  #89  
Old 12-18-2005, 02:06 AM
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The Hannovers' HRH comes from Hannover (George V made them HH in the UK in 1914 and took it away 3 years later). The Queen has no right to assent or dissent to the HRH use, except when it's used in the UK. She chooses to let it slide, but, since Ernst is the head of a royal house (even though it's been deposed for going on a century), there's not really much of anything she could do about it anyways.
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  #90  
Old 12-18-2005, 06:38 AM
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Branchg, thank you for your much detailed previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Not true. The Hanovers are Royal Highnesses by assent from the Queen, although they hold no British honours officially.
I don't understand how this is possible. What do you mean 'by assent from the Queen'?

Quote:
The Hannovers' HRH comes from Hannover (George V made them HH in the UK in 1914 and took it away 3 years later). The Queen has no right to assent or dissent to the HRH use, except when it's used in the UK. She chooses to let it slide, but, since Ernst is the head of a royal house (even though it's been deposed for going on a century), there's not really much of anything she could do about it anyways.
The very point. Hanover has not been a monarchy for over a century now, and titles and styles are illegal in Germany. Legally, Ernst (just like pavlos BTW), holds no titles or styles. Some people object that he does have a real title as he is a British Prince (not legal basis to this claim, but as Branchg explained, the Queen did not object). As for the RH, he is a RH neither in Germany (not legal) nor in the UK (not a child-grandson of the Queen).
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  #91  
Old 12-18-2005, 11:17 PM
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German law doesn't impact the house rules of the former reigning families. Under the Hannover house law, EA is HRH. Whether you hold the house rules to be valid in a republic is a personal opinion, but German law doesn't delve into house rules (except in cases of inheritance), probably because it's a can of worms that the government feels should stay on the shelf.
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  #92  
Old 12-19-2005, 08:14 AM
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Yes and no. The German Federal Republic specifically forbids any titles of nobility, except as part of your name (Ernst-August, Prince von Hannover), and there is no compelling reason to care about the various House Rules. All of the German royals are citizens of Germany and their status is officially the same as any other citizen. Their former styles and titles are a courtesy of social standing.
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  #93  
Old 12-19-2005, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Their former styles and titles are a courtesy of social standing.
Which is why there's a compelling reason to care about the House Rules. And it's the House Rules that make EA call himself (and other royals call him) HRH.
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  #94  
Old 01-19-2006, 04:34 PM
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Does CP Pavlos become known as King of Greece after the death of his father? And will CP M-C then become known as Queen?
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  #95  
Old 03-18-2006, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
2. Actually even their Prince of Great Britain and Northern England title has no legal basis. Granted, Ernst is direct descendant to Queen Victoria through male line and is on the list of the British succession. But this title was auto-awarded by one of his ancestor, who, when the the monarchy was abolished, proclaimed that his family will be know as Princes of the UK bla bla bla...
OT:
This might be a little late in coming, but EA is NOT a direct descendant of Queen Victoria through the male line. Although her uncles, George IV and William IV were both Kings of Hanover, due to that Kingdom's Salic Law forbidding women from inheriting the throne, the Hanoverian throne passed to her other uncle, Ernest-Augustus I who is the current Prince Augustus' great, great grandfather. :)
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  #96  
Old 04-15-2006, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily
Does CP Pavlos become known as King of Greece after the death of his father? And will CP M-C then become known as Queen?
No, because Pavlos was never a reigning monarch, so he will remain HRH Crown Prince Pavlos during his lifetime. His son will be known simply as HRH Prince of Greece & Denmark.

Marie-Chantal is currently HRH Crown Princess Pavlos of Greece & Denmark. She was not granted the distinction of being a princess in her own right by Constantine. It is possible she will when Pavlos becomes the head of the House after his father's death.
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  #97  
Old 04-15-2006, 06:54 PM
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Question regarding the 'passing of titles'. . .will all of MC and Pavlos children be considered 'crown prince/princesses'? Will THEIR children then also (MC's grandchildren)?? It must stop somewhere, after all, MANY of us can trace our royal lineages, myself included, yet not all are obviously entitled to THE title.
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  #98  
Old 04-15-2006, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrodite26
Question regarding the 'passing of titles'. . .will all of MC and Pavlos children be considered 'crown prince/princesses'? Will THEIR children then also (MC's grandchildren)?? It must stop somewhere, after all, MANY of us can trace our royal lineages, myself included, yet not all are obviously entitled to THE title.
I suppose you're talking about Constantinos Alexios and his descendants after Pavlos passes away, since he is the second in the line of succession.
I think -and hope- that this is what is going to happen, but for his (Constantinos Alexios') children, not all of Pavlos and MC's children
And I am more than happy the politicians can not use the term "ex Crown Prince", as some of them keep on doing ironically and with disgust referring to Constantine
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  #99  
Old 04-16-2006, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrodite26
Question regarding the 'passing of titles'. . .will all of MC and Pavlos children be considered 'crown prince/princesses'? Will THEIR children then also (MC's grandchildren)?? It must stop somewhere, after all, MANY of us can trace our royal lineages, myself included, yet not all are obviously entitled to THE title.
The usage of "Crown Prince" will end with Pavlos, just as the title "King of the Hellenes" will end with King Constantine. There will then be a problem in distinguishing the 'heir' from the other ranks of Princes and Princesses of Greece and Denmark. Many of the German Houses get round this by continuing to use the title 'Erbprinz' or 'Hereditary Prince'.
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  #100  
Old 04-16-2006, 11:05 AM
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I would think they'd go to using HRH The Prince of Greece (and Denmark) for the head, HRH The Hereditary Prince of Greece (and Denmark), and HRH Prince/ss of Greece (and Denmark) for the rest of the clan, like Hannover does. Of course, the Hereditary Prince thing is a guess, but they don't have anything else to go by (unless they claim Duke of Sparta against Constantine's wished).
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