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  #381  
Old 06-18-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
Oh no, I was not reffering to the current family part as mistake , but were you said that the 1994 regulation declared the dead royals foreigners , because the regulation does not affect their status, according to the regulation if they died during the Kingdom's time thy were Greek (not to mention that it would be silly for any law to claim someone dead over a century or 70 years suddenly loses its nationality Anyway what I don't understand is why this matter was not settled after the referendum, IMO they should have simply asked Constantine then to get a surname and swear allegiance to the Constitution in order to continue being Greek, it should have been resolved years before 1994

Wouldn't that be discrimination?
After the 1974 fall of the junta and the return of democracy the borders were wide open for all to return. Men who fought during the civil war, killed fellow Greeks and fled to the communist countries, were allowed to return, run for election and become MPs. So far that I know, no one was asked or invited to pledge allegiance to the 1974 constitution. They were all embraced and celebrated.
The Royal family was not allowed to plead their case before the referendum and never disputed its results. They respected the will of the majority and had to ask for permission to return for a few houres to bury Q Frederica, then leave in haste since the government did not allow them to remain in Greece. This was way before the issue of the citizenship, the lawsuit or any demands about a last name.

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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
I am confused about your point of your above post. As this is a discussion forum, truthfully, why does this present situation affect you so much? How would you benefit if the Greek monarchy was restored? How would the international community/policies benefit also? Or Are you just being sentimental toward the former GRF?
Greece today, as in all countries, has problems that need to be 'fixed.' I do not believe the restoration of the GRF will solve the many complex problems facing Greece today. I do hope for the GRF, especially Constantine, to accept their fate that has stared them in the face for the past 35-45 years.
There is no doubt in anyone's mind that Greece has serious problems that need to be fixed, which are 100% the politicians' doings.
There is no doubt that the King has accepted the results of the 1974 referendum and never once did he interfere in Greek politics or affaires.
However when it comes to sentimentality, one has to wonder how come Greeks keep the same political families run their lives for decades on end without any accountability. Today's young vote the way their parents and grandparents always voted and belong to one party or the other because of the family's tradition. Isn't their mentality the same like those who have a warm and fuzzy feeling towards the Royal family?
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  #382  
Old 11-18-2011, 02:56 PM
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Great-grandchildren of Greek monarchs

Hello everyone,

I realize that with the Greek monarchy abolished this is a rather moot point, but since the private usage of royal titles within the Greek royal family continues perhaps there is room for this discussion:

Children and grandchildren of a King of the Hellenes have borne the style and title His/Her Royal Highness, Prince/Princess of Greece and Denmark. My question is, what style and title would be appropriate for a male-line great-grandchild of a Greek king? Example: when one of Crown Prince Pavlos' sons has children, they will be the great-grandchildren (through the male line) of King Constantine II. What sort of title would they hold?

In the United Kingdom, for example, prior to Letters Patent issued by King George V in 1917, male-line great-grandchildren of the British monarch were styled simply as "Highness", while children and grandchildren of the monarch were Royal Highnesses. Example: Prince Alastair of Connaught, grandson of Arthur, Duke of Connaught, was styled His Highness Prince Alastair of Connaught as a great-grandson of Queen Victoria. As we know, King George V revoked this in 1917 by limiting the style of Royal Highness to children and grandchildren of the sovereign, and by declaring that great-grandchildren of a sovereign who were not the eldest son of the son of the Prince of Wales would bear the style of children of non-royal Dukes.

In the Greek royal family, such a great-grandchild has yet to come up. Most great-grandchildren of King George I were/are members of other royal houses and so Greek titles do not apply to them. Also, there was a limited number of Greek princes in the second generation of the Greek royal family -- aside from Kings George II, Alexander and Paul (whose children, of course, all bear the style of Royal Highness) there was Prince Philip (whose descendants are part of the British royal house); Prince Michael (who has daughters that did not receive full Greek royal titles), and Prince Peter, who did not have any children. Aside from these three cousins, all other grandchildren of King George I were females who married into other houses.

Hopefully someone can offer some insight? Thank you!
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  #383  
Old 11-18-2011, 03:15 PM
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That's a very interesting question, I would also like to know the answer.

Though if we are to go by most non-reigning royal families and their titles, it seems that Pavlos' sons (excluding Constantine as he will be the next pretender and most definitely pass on his titles) will continue to pass on royal titles, i.e. Archduke Lorenz passing on Archduke/Archduchess titles to his children who are great-grandchildren of a deceased former Emperor...
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  #384  
Old 11-19-2011, 09:05 AM
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The question can possibly be answered by separating the dual identities of members of the Royal Family. While they are in effect an "ex" royal family in relation to what is now the Greek (or Hellenic) Republic, within the Gotha they remain a branch of the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg. Members of what we could call the Greek line continue to bear royal styles and [now historical] royal titles. Protocols which may have existed within the former Kingdom of Greece may not necessarily apply to the family which is no longer a State entity. King Constantine, as well as being a former Sovereign, is also independently Head of this branch of the S-H-S-G dynasty and thus able to make whatever rules he chooses regarding the use of the styles and titles. Crown Prince Pavlos will no doubt do the same when he eventually succeeds to the Headship.
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  #385  
Old 11-24-2011, 05:19 PM
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King George A when he became king of Greece, he created a title for the chief of the Greek royal House, was the King of the Hellenes, it is diferent to King of Greece . King Constantine, is the King of the Hellenes, it is a noble title to identify the chief of the Royal house. The King of the Hellenes, I think that in the future, this title may be inherited by Prince Paul even being Greece a republic because it identifies the cheif of the Greek royal House. The children of Prince Paul are Princes of Greece and Denmark and Crown Prince Constantine Alexius will be the future Crown Prince.
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  #386  
Old 11-24-2011, 06:38 PM
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The children of Crown Prince Paul in future they will have treatment of HRH. The sons of sons of the prince Paul, this is his grandchildren(Only boys) will be treatment of Princes, except the children of Crown Prince Constantine Alexius they will be Princes with treatment of HRH. The sons of Prince Nikolaos will be PRinces of Greece but they will have not treatment of HRH .
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  #387  
Old 11-30-2011, 07:46 AM
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The title of Prince without treatment of "HRH" , is only limited, I would say it is not really a title of Prince.
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  #388  
Old 12-11-2011, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
They are related to the Danish Royal family yes, but they are not part of the 'royal' family nor in line for the Danish Throne. They are listed as part of the Greek Royal Family in this forum.

They are still 'of Greece and Denmark'.

In Danish there is a distinction between the wording of the royal house and the Greek house but in English it comes across the same.

All of the Greek royal family are entitled to use the 'of Denmark' as they are Princes of Denmark but not in line to the throne as the descendents of Queen Anne Marie (Margethe's sister) as she gave up her rights when she married Constantine.

Not being in line to the throne doesn't stop them from being Princes/Princesses 'of Greece and Denmark'. In fact they are more 'of Denmark' than 'of Greece' as the Greek government stripped them of their royal titles while the Danish government has never done so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Royal_Family Most of the members of the deposed Royal Family of Greece hold the title of Prince or Princess of Denmark with the qualification of His or Her Highness because their male line ancestor, George I of Greece, was born a Danish prince and, until 1953, his dynastic male-line descendants remained in Denmark's line of hereditary succession. So, they are members of the Danish Royal Family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of..._Danish_throne Before 1953, various descendants of King Christian IX had succession rights in Denmark. The new Act of Succession terminated those rights but left the individuals involved in possession of their titles. This created a class of people with royal titles but no rights to the throne. As a distinction, those entitled to inherit the throne are called "Prins til Danmark" (Prince to Denmark, although this distinction is not made in English) while those without succession rights are referred to as "Prins af Danmark" (Prince of Denmark). Although the Greek and Norwegian (and partly British) royal families are genealogically part of the Danish royal family, they are not descended from King Christian X and do not have any rights to the Danish throne. Norwegian royals dropped all references to Denmark in their titles but Greek royals continue to use the title "Prince(ss) of Greece and Denmark."


As the royals are all so interrelated they all have connections it makes sense that they are only listed under one royal family but that doesn't change the fact that the Greeks are 'of Greece and Denmark' (or that other royal families could use the 'of Denmark' or 'of UK' but don't do so).
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  #389  
Old 07-10-2012, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
Numerous occurances happened to this family in those 21 years. Sadly this family really needs to use their surname or decide on one. There is legally and constitutionally no longer a GRF and I have seen 'de Grecia' ('of Greece') as their surname before. Sounds like a winner to me.
NotHRH I agree! This family needs to get a grip on their factual situation in stead of hovering around a has -been monarchy which not longer wants them in that capacity. The former King keeps saying that he's accepted the fact that the Greek prefer a republic, but it's not always reflected in his actions. His refusal to take a surname is childish, IMHO.
The Danish titles of the former Greek RF are understandably confusing people! Back in 1863, when Prince Willy (Vilhelm) was offered the Greek throne by the Great Powers, his father inisisted that Willy and his descendants kept their Danish titles ( and at the time also the succession rights to the Danish throne!!) as a precautionary measure because the Greek throne was anything but stable! Old King Christian IX was said to be very worried about "exporting" his son to Greece. In case Willy and his family was dethroned, he would not be rendered stateless, but could be reinstated in the Danish rf.
Actually the first detronement didn't happen till much later (1922), and the family have since been issued with Danish diplomatic passports giving them a national affiliation but not they are not granted full citizen's rights, as far as I know. Since 1953 the Greek RF are no longer in the Danish line of succession.

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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
Or maybe the Danish queen will allow the GRF to use only their Danish royal titles???????
Out of courtesy the royal Danish court are using their original styles and titles but without any reference to Greece (the Hellenes).

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  #390  
Old 07-10-2012, 07:15 PM
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This is a finished issue. The Danish Royal Family had no surname, Is it need that the Queen Margaret chooses a surname too?
this is opinion the queen Margarete, it is one official document:

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...NMAR1983-1.jpg
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  #391  
Old 07-11-2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by IRIS1983 View Post
This is a finished issue. The Danish Royal Family had no surname, Is it need that the Queen Margaret chooses a surname too?
I'm not sure which post you're referring to, but: As a Queen regnant HM Queen Margrethe is in no need of a surname whereas as a private citizen the former king of Greece is!

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  #392  
Old 07-12-2012, 05:34 PM
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Viv, that's not true. King would like to have a Greek surname, the surname is very relevant, but he wants the best, and it is the problem, the two best greeks surnames can not choose, because are monopoly of two family, the Papandreou and Karamanlís. If he can not to have the best surname....it is best no to change.
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  #393  
Old 12-13-2012, 01:14 PM
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Today I was reading the thread about the wedding of the late Dyke and Duchess of Kent and realised it's very interesting . The bride is simply mentioned as Marine without a last name and under the rank or occupation column she is listed as Princess of Greece. Her father however is named Nicolas Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (I had to use a magnifuing glass on this so I am not completely sure but still very sure) and as rank or occupation he is "HRH Prince Nicolas of Greece and of Denmark" What to you think , did I manage to read correct the certificate and is it the only time tthat you know of a Greek royal used used this last name?
Here is a slightly bigger picture that the one of the thread http://watermarked.heritage-images.com/1218770.jpg
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  #394  
Old 12-13-2012, 07:36 PM
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but these are not surnames. It is places , titles of nobility that identify a Real House, but not properly surnames. other example, the Royal house of Hannover, Hannover is not properly one surname, it is the place (It is one place of Gemany, where is the origen of this Royal House, (Hannover are the persons members of the Royal House). Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg are members of the Royal House of Greece, but it is not surname(places and titles)
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  #395  
Old 12-13-2012, 07:43 PM
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In Britain , a person who is entitled to the style of HRH and titular dignity of prince/ss doesn't require a surname.
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  #396  
Old 12-13-2012, 08:25 PM
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Perphas , but in that particular certificate (who knows why) both the groom and his father decided to use a last name - The Duke of Kent is listed as " George Edward Alexander Edmund Windsor" and King George V as "George Frederick Ernest Albert Windsor" . Maybe that's why Nicolas put the S-H-S-G title as a last name
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  #397  
Old 12-13-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
Perphas , but in that particular certificate (who knows why) both the groom and his father decided to use a last name - The Duke of Kent is listed as " George Edward Alexander Edmund Windsor" and King George V as "George Frederick Ernest Albert Windsor" . Maybe that's why Nicolas put the S-H-S-G title as a last name
I didn't know that. Interesting. These royals are always making it up as they go along , at least the BRF seem to

For example in official documents, the Duchess of Cambridge signs her name as 'Catherine' and nothing else. I don't know what she uses privately
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  #398  
Old 12-14-2012, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
In Britain , a person who is entitled to the style of HRH and titular dignity of prince/ss doesn't require a surname.
Where did you get that information? The surname of (most members of) the British Royal Family is Windsor.

Before 1917, the British Royal Family didn't have a surname and went by just the name of the House they belonged at the moment (Hanover, Saxe-Coburg and Gotha...). However, George V's Letters Patent 1917 specifically designated Windsor as not just the name of the House, but also the family name of the British Royal Family. Two further Letters Patent issued by Elizabeth II confirmed that, with the exception of those of her male-line descendants who are not Royal Highnesses and Princes/Princesses of the Real (they are Mountbatten-Windsor).

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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
For example in official documents, the Duchess of Cambridge signs her name as 'Catherine' and nothing else. I don't know what she uses privately
The Queen signs most documents as E.R., Camilla - just as Camilla, etc. It's just a signature and it doesn't mean they don't have a surname; they do - Windsor.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
Where did you get that information? The surname of (most members of) the British Royal Family is Windsor.

Before 1917, the British Royal Family didn't have a surname and went by just the name of the House they belonged at the moment (Hanover, Saxe-Coburg and Gotha...). However, George V's Letters Patent 1917 specifically designated Windsor as not just the name of the House, but also the family name of the British Royal Family. Two further Letters Patent issued by Elizabeth II confirmed that, with the exception of those of her male-line descendants who are not Royal Highnesses and Princes/Princesses of the Real (they are Mountbatten-Windsor).


The Queen signs most documents as E.R., Camilla - just as Camilla, etc. It's just a signature and it doesn't mean they don't have a surname; they do - Windsor.
I didn't say they don't have a surname but that titled members of the BRF don't require surnames. Read my post again if you must
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:06 AM
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I didn't say they don't have a surname but that titled members of the BRF don't require surnames
Why not?
Charles, Anne, William, Harry and the others have all used surnames whenever needed, such as for their weddings or Army career.
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