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  #361  
Old 01-07-2011, 01:03 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Fanaticism in any direction is of bad advice.
Albeit living abroad, I am also a Greek citizen and entitled to have an opinion on the matter.
King Constantine was annointed and as such he shall remain king for life. It is true that he is NO more king of Greece but continues to be king [without territoriality]
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  #362  
Old 01-31-2011, 06:39 PM
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Ok about the citizenship situation I have a question (mainly to our Greek posters I guess who must know a few things about that) that just occured to my mind : Let's just say that the greeks royals and the Politicians somehow manage to solve their differences and the whole family is granted Greek citizenship - what happens next regardring the men and the army? Since serving in the army is mandatory here for the men I guess they would have to serve too - well not Constantine since he is certainly too old (70 going to 71) so he must be excluded from this obligation ( besides he has served in the past, not that it counts nowadays I guess). Philippos being 24 to 25 would certainly be required to serve but how about Pavlos (43) and Nikolaos (41), are they still eligible to be called ? And would Nikolaos and Philippos have to serve the whole time? (I exclude Pavlos because as the father of five he would have to serve much less) I am a girl so I have no idea about the details of serving in the army here , never bothered
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  #363  
Old 01-31-2011, 07:50 PM
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King Constantine did his instructions in Greek Army Special Forces Lok, and he also practices in aviation. He was the head of the Greek army. Military service is compulsory until age 45, Prince Paul is about to attaining that age, yet he and Prince Nikolaos has done military service abroad, in Britain, I do not know if this could have an effect in Greece I think so, because foreigners who acquire Greek citizenship, if they have military service abroad, it is validated, I think. Prince Filip has not done his military service, he might have to make it, I think.
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  #364  
Old 02-01-2011, 08:36 AM
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This would be funny that politicians will return to Constantine nationality and then those same politicians , who have no military service or have done a questionable military service, will require Filippos for make the military service. And I'm sure that Prince would make the service military.
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  #365  
Old 02-01-2011, 05:53 PM
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I've been looking for information about foreign military service and I'm not sure, the Greeks who must do military service are was born in Greece or Greeks of birth , but I donīt really know the situation of persons who have acquired nationality subsequently.
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  #366  
Old 06-13-2011, 10:01 PM
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Earlier today I read information on the internet about the 1815 Congress of Vienna. I was researching the use of royal titles in ousted royal families. To make a long story short, Constantine has a Danish passport because he is no longer a Greek citizen. The same applies to his family. The Greek government has requested, for Constantine and his family, only for the family to take a last name to enable them to enjoy Greek citizenship again. As of this date, he and his family have simply refused to do such. Does anyone know the 'official' reason given to the public? The 'unofficial' reason?
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  #367  
Old 06-14-2011, 07:35 AM
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The Vienna Convention is a Treaty, which states that the titles of nobility are personals, unavailable to governments. A person who has the title of King may lose consideration for head of state but it still maintains the title, that is, former King. ..... .

This treaty has not now been repealed why it can be used, continues in force.

the problem of nationality:

It is complicated of explain.

One summary:There are two types differentiate of nationality: original (it is determined by the site where born the person or by nationality of the parents when the person born, this is the first nationality that one person has) and derivative (It is the subsequent nationality acquired ).

One reason is that the Royal Decree of 1994 that deprives to the members of the royal family of their original nationality does not fit the international treaties because the international treaties prohibit deprivation of originaly nationality .
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  #368  
Old 06-15-2011, 12:26 AM
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Beltraneja,
I thank you very much for explaining the guidelines for nationality according to the 1815 Congress of Vienna. Again, my original question remains unanswered. It seems as though many who want Greece restored to a monarchy, simply want so based on emotions (endearment), and out of sympathy toward the GRF. I do not know your age, but it seems as though the GRF simply has sentimental value to you. I see Constantine's efforts to invoke sympathy for his family have indeed paid off. I myself am not so, well, foolish. If something is meant to be - it will happen in it's own good time.
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  #369  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:09 AM
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sorry for creating confusion, but the Vienna Convention does not regulate the nationality , it regulates the titles of nobility and was created to avoid conflicts between the state, in its articles has referring to titles of nobility like personals. Nationality is regulated in other agreements of the twentieth century, which regulates the right to nationality. In my opinion it is one motive. I f one person is privated of his originary nationality by law, it is affirm that this person doesnīt exist..these persons donīt exist.
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  #370  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:37 AM
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Beltraneja,
You still did get the point of the question asked to you. Again, subject changed by you. Here is my question: Why has not the former king of Greece taken a last name? This is the only reason he has not been given back his Greek citizenship. It is simply such an easy step for this family to take care of. Again, why has not he not done this very simple task? I have my on ideas why, but would like you to present your information on this particular situation.
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  #371  
Old 06-16-2011, 07:17 AM
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ahhh it was this!! To Not to give pleasure to many Greeks and politicians of power affirm that the greek royal family were danish who invaded Greece in XIX century ,....because the law was made to this.. By this is motive that the law affect to the originary nationality and to all members of the Royal family, live or died......And other motive, the tombstones of the cemetery of Tatoi will not have to be changed...
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  #372  
Old 06-16-2011, 06:41 PM
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I totally agree with you Beltraena, this was the purpose of the law, if they really wanted to force the family to accept a surname, it was as easy as did not renewed their passport, did not need a law that deprived of all identity and property to the family. . They were deprived of their passport and first nationality (Territory and nationality of their parents), the passport of one man is one paper, the passport of one dead man is his tombstone. But the purpose of the law has not been yet fulfilled.
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  #373  
Old 06-16-2011, 09:30 PM
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It seems those who are in favor of a monarchy in Greece cannot, or will not, 'absorb' the fact there is no GRF, because the laws in Greece were changed by those who did not see a positive future for Greece if the monarchy stayed in place. Sentimental value seems the only reason to restore what once was. Constantine's refusal to choose a surname, which would restore his Greek citizenship, only proves his inability to go forward and accept the reality of his fate. The Greek government does not 'owe' the ex-king his restoration to a non-existent throne.
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  #374  
Old 06-17-2011, 09:11 AM
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If the government wanted that the old Family Royal would accepted one surname, they only should to have denied of passport to the family. But the law deprive of passport + original nationality, deleted the territory where was born the person and nationality of parents (The law became to the persons affected, in persons is not born in Greek territory and their parents was not nationality of Greece. The law was made to consider to the Greek royal family as foreigners by law, all living and dead, The law say that they can received greek nationality if they accept one surname and others conditions,..........if they accept the surname they would accept the contents of the law, this is: '- If They recognize the content of the law, they will recognize that are foreing that acquere the nationality of Greece: - If they agree to those requirements that the law determines , they will recognize that never were not born in Greek territory and that their parents were not Greeks (they would renounce their original nationality). -The headstones are considered by law identifying of the dead person , if they would accept the conditions of the law, and other requirements ...... the tombstones in the cemetery of Tatoi lose its status of legal identification of the dead person , because his new condition would be regulated by this law of 1994, it would considered to the died persons ,foreigners.
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  #375  
Old 06-17-2011, 10:47 AM
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Beltraneja,
I do understand your sympathy and loyalty toward the ex-king's family. I also believe the current Greek government is very harsh to him and his family. I am sure the government has reasons, whether anyone agrees or disagrees, for the various laws enacted regarding what once was the GRF.
Your words in your response stated above have only proved there is no GRF. With time comes inevitable changes. These changes have never, or will ever have regard for human emotions. To put it simply, my feelings on this subject and your feelings on this subject, do not change what is. As per Greek law, a royal family of Greece does not exist.
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  #376  
Old 06-17-2011, 10:57 AM
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I believe that you are making a few mistakes Beltraneja. The law says that the wasa special relationship bewteen the GRF and the state concening nationality and that their nationality was attached to the monarchy's existence: when there was an active King , he and his family member were Greeks, when the Throne stopped existing, the members of the family lost their nationality as well, and that there is historical precedence for this treatment, according to the 1924 decrees. So according to this line of thinking, the ancestors who lived and died during the Monarchy are Greeks but the current family isn't. I hope that I am right in intepreting what I read
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  #377  
Old 06-17-2011, 12:21 PM
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I'm not in any mistake, the original nationality is determined by two factors, being born in this territory or nationality that the parents have in moment of birth. The Act abolishes the nationality is irrelevant reason that justifies it, because the nationality of origin is protected by international treaties, human rights declaration of 1948, the New York Convention on the decade of 60,
Sofia, Constantine and Alexia, Paul were born in Greek territory, their originally nationality : Greek

Irene Nicolas, were born on foreign but their parents had Greek nationality their originally nationality is Greek .

The originally nationality can not be delete by law, becuase arenīt laws who determine it, it is territory and nationality of the parents..if is delete by law, it delete circumstances, events that occurred, For example. Princess Alexia was born in Palace of Mon repos in 10 july of 1965...........You can not delete it by law. Because it happened
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  #378  
Old 06-17-2011, 01:11 PM
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Oh no, I was not reffering to the current family part as mistake , but were you said that the 1994 regulation declared the dead royals foreigners , because the regulation does not affect their status, according to the regulation if they died during the Kingdom's time thy were Greek (not to mention that it would be silly for any law to claim someone dead over a century or 70 years suddenly loses its nationality Anyway what I don't understand is why this matter was not settled after the referendum, IMO they should have simply asked Constantine then to get a surname and swear allegiance to the Constitution in order to continue being Greek, it should have been resolved years before 1994
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  #379  
Old 06-17-2011, 03:49 PM
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George Papandreou , present Primer minister of Greece, was born in the USA, not born in Greek territory, but his parents when he was born had the greek nationality, his mother had not lived never in Greece .The Princess Irini when she was born her parents had greek nationality . The law delete the nationality of King pavlo and Queen Federika =Princess Irini no greek nationality.
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  #380  
Old 06-17-2011, 08:24 PM
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I am confused about your point of your above post. As this is a discussion forum, truthfully, why does this present situation affect you so much? How would you benefit if the Greek monarchy was restored? How would the international community/policies benefit also? Or Are you just being sentimental toward the former GRF?
Greece today, as in all countries, has problems that need to be 'fixed.' I do not believe the restoration of the GRF will solve the many complex problems facing Greece today. I do hope for the GRF, especially Constantine, to accept their fate that has stared them in the face for the past 35-45 years.
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