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  #261  
Old 06-11-2010, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA View Post
I say this because I think that the passport danish is more secures to the royal family..The use of a law is very strong instrument, is a all against a family. It sets a precedent impossible to eliminate, this passport can not give guarantees, it is impossible....It is possible that the grandchildren of the King of Greece would qualify for the greek passport with all the guarantees, but the kings and their sons, this is impossible,
The Queen was born a Danish princess. She could still and as an extension her husband could carry Danish passports.
If the King is not considered Greek but foreign he can make a very good argument that his great great grandfather was a Danish prince so he could have gotten the passport anyway.
The King's grandshildren who were born in the US automatically can claim US citizenship. There is no way they could claim a Greek citizenship since their mother is not Greek and their father was denied Greek citizenship.
The King gave himself the surname of DaGrecia which the socialist government did not accept as a legitimate enough surname to give him a passport.
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  #262  
Old 06-11-2010, 03:02 PM
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Let me submit my little piece of "wisdom"

1. King Constantine (and his sisters, in fact) was born before the Danish Succession Act of 1953, and as such was, is and shall always be a Danish prince in his own rights no matter what socialst Danes may argue. This is, in fact, the reason the passports were granted, ironically not Anne-Marie's birthright because she lost it due to the fact that she married a foreign ruling/reigning dynast. Princess Benedicte, on the other hand, who also married a foreign dynast retained her status as a princess and citizen due to the fact that her husband was/is a non-ruling dynast of a defunct principality. Thus, King Constantine is entitled not just to a diplomatic but even to a regular Danish passport. Obviously, he didn't seek a passport as a Danish citizen since this would create an embarrassing precedent vis-a-vis Greece.

2. Greece has no problem accepting de Grecia as a last name as long as it gets transliterated to the Greek Ντεγκρέτσια [meaningless in Greek]. The problem, if I understand correctly lies with the fact that King Constantine wants it translated, rather than transliterated, to Της Ελλάδος [of Greece], which the Greek government considered not to correspond to a surname since it implies his royal status. To complicate matters, King Constantine keeps insisting during interviews, "I have no surname". Well, that is fine but it does not prevent or stop him from adopting one. This is where the subtlety lies with and how that clash between him and the government began.

3. I personally feel strenuously that King Constantine is Greek because he speaks fluently the language and knows Greek history, the Isocratic requirements for being Greek and he was born on Greek soil after three generations of a Danish family who settled there. BUT he must adopt a surname, probably by just transliterating the de Grecia to Ντεγκρέτσια(ς) which I am sure would meet the criteria of the Constitution.
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  #263  
Old 06-11-2010, 03:25 PM
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I understand this is a conversation that may go round and round with no end in sight and nothing productive coming out of it. Constantine was born a Crown Prince of Greece and then became a King. He will carry this title to the end. He has no last name and since the Greek Royal family is tracing its roots to the Glugsburg dynasty the Greek commentators take great satisfaction calling him, either the ex or "the Glugsburg". The truth is that this was a ploy from the socialist government to reduce him to an average citizen, waving in front of him the issue of the Greek passport. No matter how we slice and dice it, he will not take a name and I applaud him for this.
I just wished the government would be as strict with the current illegal immigrants they see as potential voters of tomorrow and put as many restrictions on them before they hand them Greek passports.
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  #264  
Old 06-11-2010, 05:09 PM
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I will not enter into a discussion about the surname, I have spoken much about it. He was born in Greece, he was King, but has a danish passport and in the interview he gave on the occasion of the Olympics in Greece to Danish journalist, he said that, he had no current problem with Greece. He has a Danish passport with all warranty. I repeat that the picture at the picture of Queen Olga of Greece was symbolic. She also had danish passport danish passport. How many people were born in Greece and now living in other countries and have a passport of this country?
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  #265  
Old 06-12-2010, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA View Post
..... How many people were born in Greece and now living in other countries and have a passport of this country?
Zillions of Greeks, many of whom have become American, Canadian, Australian and German citizens and some (few) who retain dual citizenship

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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
........ Constantine was born a Crown Prince of Greece and then became a King. .........The truth is that this was a ploy from the socialist government to reduce him to an average citizen, waving in front of him the issue of the Greek passport........
King Constantine was certainly a king with a kingdom, he is still a king but without a kingdom.
Greece is now a repuplic without extraordinary citizens. Even if some politician were prepared to treat him differently, the people would revolt. What I offered above was just a candid practical advice. What King Constantine will do is his absolute prerogative.
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  #266  
Old 06-26-2010, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlaha Karatsokaros View Post
The European Union did neither intervene nor moderate for it has neither authority nor right to do so and it would never try to interfere for, insofar as it (the EU, that is) is concerned, King Constantine is just another citizen or non-citizen like you and me.
Last but not least, the country of his birth and origin, Greece, that is, has not rejected his application for citizenship in its merits but because he refused to acknoledge the Constitution which requires ALL Greek citizens to have a surname or adopt one of their own free will and choice. Thus, the reason he did not take his case to a European Court is because he had no case of discrimination to argue against, thus his claim would have been dropped as non-meritorious.
Of course the King took the case of the surname to the European Court of Justice! And the answer was that he should take a surname. But "how can you tell a Greek, that he is not Greek", as Constantine said? That was the main point of the Government's Law about his surname. To make him stand on the queue and ask for a name. But that's not a Democratic attitude from a so called "Democratic" government....
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  #267  
Old 06-27-2010, 05:50 AM
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King Constantine took his property case to the European Courts. I do not believe he took the surname issue to the European Court which handles predominantly issues pertaining to equal opportunity, discrimination etc. Had King Constantine adopted a surname and been prepared to uphold the Constitution and had the Greek State denied him his nationality, he could have taken his case to the Court and he would have won triumphantly!

Due ti limited understanding of the nuances of Law, the issues get often confused. There is a huge distinction between patriality and nationality. The Law, Greek Law in this case, recognizes Greek patriality for up to three generations down the direct line. Something comparable applies to Israel's Law toward Hebrews all over the World.
There are millions of ethnotically Greeks, that is, people with Hellenic patriality, particularly in the USA, Canada and Australia who do not hold Greek nationality because, either they never bothered to renew their passports, when they lapsed, or were born abroad and either their parents never bothered to register them, or they never sought themselves to get registered, with the local Greek Consulates.

No one denies [or can deny] King Constantine his Greek patriality. He is Greek 100%, but it is he who declined to continue being a Greek National by swearing to uphold the Constitution as it was adopted in 1974, because this Constitution requires that all citizens to be equal and hold a surname.
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  #268  
Old 07-03-2010, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Kastalia View Post
......As far as i've read Glucksburgs are of German,Danish and Norwegian origin.....
Glucksburg is a small town in the district [Νομός] of Schleswig-Flensburg in the northernmost of the 16 States of Germany, Schleswig-Holstein.
The House of Glucksburg was an unimportant, non-sovereign family in the feudal system of the then Empire.
The Danish and Norwegian royal families are direct descendants of this umimportant House [not the reverse], which, due to chance became unexpectedly important when the childless Frederick VII of Denmark appointed as his successor to the Throne the husband of his great-niece Louise of Hesse-Kassel.
Indeed, the House of Glucksburg were not sovereign to their land but they held it in fief to the sovereign duchies of Schleswig and Holstein (kings of Denmark).
Thus, King Constantine's great-great-grandfather, an unimportant duke, became, Christian IX of Denmark and this not in result of his own rights but his wife's!
I guess, this may explain why King Constantine revolts whenever he is reminded of Glucksburg.

It is another story, of course, that Christian IX became the grandfather of Europe when his daughter Alexandra became queen of Great Britain, another daughter, Dagmar, empress (by marriage) of Russia, one son King of Greece (George I) and another King of Denmark. But up to the first half of the 19th century, this family was dynastically most irrelevant and unimportant. I say that, because many of us of Greek ancestry are much more aristocratic than King Constantine and can trace our origins to Byzantium.
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  #269  
Old 07-04-2010, 06:58 PM
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Glubsburg is not the surname, is the place of origin. Queen Margaret of Denmark, who is the representative of this dynasty, in a statement did in 1983, says that Glubsurg was not surname of the Danish royal family ..... .Glubsurg is the place of origin but not the surname.

King Constantine will not engage to the politics, the seconds, he has not problem with the greek state. Prince Nikolas at a press conference February told the Greek journalist who ask by engage to the politics, he said "no", Prince Pavlo always has said that he doesn´t like the politics..

In future, the representative of the Greek Royal House will continue to attend royal weddings, if they want, because they represent a dynasty of royal.
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  #270  
Old 07-05-2010, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA View Post
Glubsburg is not the surname, is the place of origin. Queen Margaret of Denmark, who is the representative of this dynasty, in a statement did in 1983, says that Glubsurg was not surname of the Danish royal family ..... .Glubsurg is the place of origin but not the surname.
Queen Margrethe is neither the representative of, nor the spokesperson for, the House of Glucksburg in toto, whatsoever. She is the Head of the Danish Branch of the House of Glucksburg and, thus, can decide whatever she likes with respect to the Royal House of Denmark's nominal association with the House of Glucksburg.
By the way, it was not Queen Margrethe who decided to shed Glucksburg as the "surname" of the Royal House of Denmark. It was done, if I am not mistaken by her father, Frederick IX in or around 1953 with the Succession Act.
At any rate, her statement does not create legal basis to justify or legitimize King Constantine's argument that he has no surname. He has every right to make such claim on his own to the same extent that the Norwegian royal family continues to uphold its Glucksburg provenance.

We all know that Glucksburg is the name of a locale but we should be reminded that, for over a century now, noble houses that lost their sovereignty, have been using the name of the lands/territories they used to rule in lieu of surname [best example is Germany where the Law permits that].
Thus, the argument that the name of the city/state/territory of provenance of a noble house is not a surname is silly and childish. On the other hand, as I stated above, King Constantine has every right to continue to be surname-less as long as the country that issued his passport accepts that. If he and Denmark are happy with that, so are we. After all, it is none of our business.

Insofar as Glucksburg as a surname is concerned [as it pertained to Prince Philip], here is an interesting excerpt from the National Archives of the United Kingdom,

"The GUARDIAN MONDAY DECEMBER 14th 1959

A royal surname

The remarks of the Bishop of Carlisle about the Royal Family's surname seem to have been accorded the kind of stony reception given to a courageous traveller who lets down the window in a stuffy railway carriage. Yet his plea that the children of the Queen should not be denied all the associations of their father's family was sensible, and in keeping with the reputation of one widely recognised in the North as a warder of the best traditions of home life. When Prince Philip first came among us, we were told that he belonged to one of the very old ruling families in Europe—the Royal House of Denmark—that had no surname. In fact, the name is Schleswig - Holstein - Sonderbourg -Glucksbourg. The next act in the courtly farce was to make the Prince take his mother's name and become a naturalised British subject. No official, it seems, troubled to discover that Prince Philip was already a British subject by birth, being descended over and over again from the Electress Sophia (Charles I's niece), whose descendants were given British nationality by Act of Parliament. By birth Prince Philip was also a Prince of Denmark as well as of Greece—his grandfather, the King of Greece, being a younger son of King Christian IX. This family has married many times with the Stuart, Hanoverian, and present reigning dynasty of Great Britain. When, a century ago, the heir to the British throne married an enchanting bride from this family we did not try to pretend that she was someone else.

For Saxon or Dane or Norman we
Teuton or Celt or whatever we be
We are each all Dane in our welcome of thee
Alexandra

Queen Victoria's children were princes and princesses of Great Britain through their mother and of Saxony through their father. Would it not be a graceful (though belated) attribute to truth and an acknowledgment of the long ties between the British and Danish people if the children of this royal alliance were henceforth known as princes and Princesses of Great Britain and Denmark? We are all Europeans now."
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  #271  
Old 07-05-2010, 09:03 AM
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Queen Margaret of Dinmarca, is the Head of State of Denmark and Head of the Danish royal house and the highest representative of a dynasty.
She alone the power to determine the surname of Christian IX, which George of greece descended from Chritian IX of Denmark.She is the only entitled to establish which was the name or surname of Christian IX and their descendants.It turns out that Margaret is Head of State , and her word is as good as the President of a Republic.
http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...EENMAR1983.jpg
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  #272  
Old 07-05-2010, 04:33 PM
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In this moment which members of the Greek Royal Family has a regular greek passport and which is the surname put in it?
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  #273  
Old 07-05-2010, 04:59 PM
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In this moment which members of the Greek Royal Family has a regular greek passport and which is the surname put in it?
None of King Constantine 's descendants hold a greek passport and neither does he or his wife. I have read on the Internet that Prince Michael holds a French passport with the surname de Grece on it and even in the greek publications of his book he signs with latin letters as Michel de Grece. However, I never managed to know what kind of passport his wife and daughters hold, so it might be a Greek one
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  #274  
Old 07-05-2010, 05:45 PM
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The passport of the wife of Prince Michael is Monaco, I read an interview of her in a Spanish magazine, for an exhibition she was presenting in Spain and she said be the sculptor of Monaco .
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  #275  
Old 07-06-2010, 09:36 AM
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....... The King's grandshildren who were born in the US automatically can claim US citizenship. There is no way they could claim a Greek citizenship since their mother is not Greek and their father was denied Greek citizenship.
........
Prince Paul, to the best of my knowledge never applied for Greek passport. Anyway, he maintains Greek Patriality and this also extends to his children. Should they ever decide to obtain Greek Nationality, all they have to do is to apply for, presenting of course a name and a surname.
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  #276  
Old 07-06-2010, 03:12 PM
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They have never had the surname Glucksburg so I dont't understant why somebody could ask them to bear it.
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  #277  
Old 07-06-2010, 04:39 PM
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They have never had the surname Glucksburg so I dont't understant why somebody could ask them to bear it.
Nobody is asking them, in fact no one has the right to impose Glucksburg as a surname onto the former royal family. All that is required by the Hellenic Constitution is that all citizens have a surname. Thus, King Constantine and his children and grandchildren should present a surname should they want to obtain Greek nationality, on top the Greek patriality that is theirs and no one can take away from them.
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  #278  
Old 07-06-2010, 06:51 PM
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It is more complicated if Prince Paul wants to have a Greek passport, he may not get it automatically because for it he may need have Greek ancestors ... In 1994 a law stripped of his Greek origins to his father and ancestors, to entire dynasty,.... In conclusion to obtain Greek nationality being with force law 1994 must: A: Obtaining a residence card, for it must get a job b: Reside permanently in Greece, during the years that Greek law provides for foreigners without ascending Greeks ... c: Finally the requirements for the authorization of the Greek authorities, may be denied citizenship oaths and other requirements If the Prince Pavlo would like to get automatic citizenship requires that the Act! 994 is repealed. Of course, if we have note that the 1994 Act, gives different treatment to members of the Royal family, it could happen that for can not be applied the law normal and would be need a new law, to develop the 1994 law, aimed solely at the Royal Family. The greeks Politicians call to Constantine "Glucksburg" . they are not competent to establish the surname of a dynasty, currently the only jurisdiction to establish the surname of the Danish dynasty is the head of the Danish Royal Family, Queen Margaret.
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  #279  
Old 07-06-2010, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA View Post
It is more complicated if Prince Paul wants to have a Greek passport, he may not get it automatically because for it he may need have Greek ancestors ... In 1994 a law stripped of his Greek origins to his father and ancestors, to entire dynasty,.... In conclusion to obtain Greek nationality being with force law 1994 must: A: Obtaining a residence card, for it must get a job b: Reside permanently in Greece, during the years that Greek law provides for foreigners without ascending Greeks ... c: Finally the requirements for the authorization of the Greek authorities, may be denied citizenship oaths and other requirements If the Prince Pavlo would like to get automatic citizenship requires that the Act! 994 is repealed. Of course, if we have note that the 1994 Act, gives different treatment to members of the Royal family, it could happen that for can not be applied the law normal and would be need a new law, to develop the 1994 law, aimed solely at the Royal Family. The greeks Politicians call to Constantine "Glucksburg" . they are not competent to establish the surname of a dynasty, currently the only jurisdiction to establish the surname of the Danish dynasty is the head of the Danish Royal Family, Queen Margaret.
What you said regarding obtaining nationality is true insofar as ethnotically non-Greeks are concerned. Let me say it once again, Greece like Israel has a strong patriality law. All ethnotically Greek people, that is, those who had a Greek ancestor on the direct line up to three generations, are entitled to obtain Greek nationality following an entirely different process, which is quick and simple.
Now, to King Constantine's case, whether he does or does not have a surname is his problem and none of Greece's concern. Should he decide to become a Greek national again, he is both welcome and entitled, but he is mandated to acquire a surname, any surname of his choice.
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  #280  
Old 07-07-2010, 06:21 PM
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This is, Prince Pavlo you can not apply the patriality law, because her Greek background was annulled in the law 94
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