Titles, Surname and Protocols for the Royal Family - Page 2

kelly9480 · #21 04-17-2005, 02:24 PM

The titles for princes/ses of the Greek Royal House is Prince/ss of Greece and Denmark. If you are a prince of Greece, you are a prince of Denmark. Since they still bear the Prince of Greece title, they still bear the Prince of Denmark title that's attached to it.

eireann · #22 04-17-2005, 06:47 PM

what happens when king constantine dies? Will pavlos become king of Greece?

suturegeisha · #23 04-17-2005, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eireann

what happens when king constantine dies? Will pavlos become king of Greece?

Nah. He can't, at least legally.

As far as the rest of the discussion- Marie Chantal really gets on my nerves, but for no specific reason. I have never met her and know nothing of her personality- she could be the nicest person ever, so I can't pass judgement on that.
She just kind of, I don't know, tweaks me. Whenever I see her dead-eyed, plastic cookie-cutter gaze staring back at me from the pages of some haute-couture fashion magazine, with her hideous yet ridiculously expensive Valentino gown draped across her bony shoulders, I get irritated.

I really don't care whether she uses her title or not. She certainly, in my mind, is not a princess, NOT because she doesn't "act like one" [how exactly do you act like a princess anyway?] but because she is not legally a princess. Greece is a republic, not a constitutional monarchy. She will not be the Queen of Greece one day. Therefore, to me, she is plain old Marie-Chantal Miller.

My two cents. Enjoy. :)

Mascha · #24 05-17-2005, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eireann

what happens when king constantine dies? Will pavlos become king of Greece?

He can't be called King of Greece (they don't rule), his father still has that title because he once was King of Greece and that is more out of respect for him. :)

Fashionista100 · #25 05-17-2005, 09:58 AM

Pavlos cannot become King unless he is crowned. The crowning can only take place in the country or his kingdom. Since Greece is not a kingdom anymore the point is mute. However, he is still a prince as the royal house still exsists even thought they have no country. Those titles are more about blood line.

kelly9480 · #26 05-21-2005, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fashionista100

Pavlos cannot become King unless he is crowned. The crowning can only take place in the country or his kingdom. Since Greece is not a kingdom anymore the point is mute. However, he is still a prince as the royal house still exsists even thought they have no country. Those titles are more about blood line.

That's not necessarily true. He can assume the title King of the Hellenes, if he wanted to. And royal courts would probably refer to him by that title. But it would have no basis in fact, (and he would probably be privately ridiculed by those same royal courts), though he would be the de jure King of the Hellenes.

Greece never had coronations, and (except in Belgium, where an oath must be taken beforehand) a King is King the moment his predecessor dies, so there'd be no need to wait until a coronation.

samitude · #27 05-21-2005, 01:31 PM

Isn't the head of the French royal house just called the Count of Paris? I would assume that Pavlos, upon his father's death, would take up some kind of title like that instead of king. Does Pavlos have any official titles other then Prince like the Duke of Brabant, Prince of Wales, Prince of Orange, Prince of Austurias, etc.? If he does then I would imagine he would go by that title. When King Juan Carlos of Spain's father was in exile he was just called by his title The Count of Barcelona.

As a side note, His father definately should be called "King" ,in my opinion, as a title of respect. Here in the United States a former president is still called "President Johnson" (or whatever his last name happens to be) out of respect for his former office.

**Warren** · #28 05-21-2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samitude

I would assume that Pavlos, upon his father's death, would take up some kind of title like that instead of king.

Pavlos would most likely continue to use the title of Crown Prince of Greece (Diadoch). Just as Alexander of Serbia and Yugoslavia refers to himself as Crown Prince. This is quite legitimate, as both were Crown Princes before their countries became republics.
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Frothy · #29 06-28-2005, 11:16 AM

OK - I am an ardent royalist but don't consider MC a princess or Pavlos a prince. Greece is a republic and I think it is pretentious of them to call themselves prince and princess, kind of a rebuke to the people of Greece's decision to be a republic.

I live in NY and if i met MC I would not cursty to her, and if I knew their family name I would call her 'Mrs. X.'

princess gertrude · #30 06-28-2005, 01:39 PM

Pavlos & MC are a prince & princess IMO, just from a non-reigning family. Although, I don't really have a good opinion on MC. Thought of the day-- If Pavlos family were still reigning in Greece, would the gov't & his parents let him marry her??? I think not, but again that is just my opinion.

branchg · #31 06-29-2005, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frothy

OK - I am an ardent royalist but don't consider MC a princess or Pavlos a prince. Greece is a republic and I think it is pretentious of them to call themselves prince and princess, kind of a rebuke to the people of Greece's decision to be a republic.

I live in NY and if i met MC I would not cursty to her, and if I knew their family name I would call her 'Mrs. X.'

No one considers the Greek Royal House, or any other former reigning dynasty, to be truly royal. There is an exception made somewhat for King Constantine and Queen Anne-Marie, as a former Sovereign and Consort respectively, and the fact that Anne-Marie is the sister of the Queen of Denmark and a member of the royal family.

In high society, it is a breach of protocol to curtsy or bow to a member of a non-reigning dynasty. They are addressed by their title ("Prince") but only as a courtesy and this was rare for Pavlos. Marie-Chantal is not a princess, but merely the wife of a former royal at best.

Pavlos is a very nice man, but certainly not the brightest bulb in the room. His wife, Marie, is a real go-getter and runs the show. Obviously, she is also extremely wealthy, which doesn't hurt, but I have heard both Constantine and Anne-Marie are not crazy about her.

Sean.~ · #32 06-29-2005, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frothy

OK - I am an ardent royalist but don't consider MC a princess or Pavlos a prince. Greece is a republic and I think it is pretentious of them to call themselves prince and princess, kind of a rebuke to the people of Greece's decision to be a republic.

It's a title of pretension, and very few people outside of royalty fans and wannabe aristos take either of them seriously. Your second point is spot on. The Greek govt. is insulted that Constantine is referred to His Majesty by Buckingham palace, and has written Downing Street about it several times.

Quote:

I live in NY and if i met MC I would not cursty to her, and if I knew their family name I would call her 'Mrs. X.'

Americans (assuming you are one) generally don't cursty, anyway. And one generally doesn't bow and scrape to members of non-reigning families.

Actually, many people in general see it as an anachronism and, consequently, it is no no longer expected -- not even by the QE II. So if MC expects it then she's a little too big for her britches, IMO.

Oh, and the name is Glucksburg (although they_ hate_ being referred to as such) ;-)

Sean.~ · #33 06-29-2005, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ews

Well said, i thoroughly agree with you here. They're not royals anymore. Hell they were not even greek, really!

Even he acknowledges that he is a former King. His official website (currently down, IIRC) had the words formerking in its URL address.

H.M. Margrethe · #34 06-29-2005, 07:47 AM

[quote=Frothy]OK - I am an ardent royalist but don't consider MC a princess or Pavlos a prince.
Maby you don´t want accept it BUT CP Pavlos and CP MC is prince and a princesse of Greece and Denmark.

Frothy · #35 06-29-2005, 09:00 AM

No. There are no Princes, Princesses, Kings, or Queens of Greece. Greece is a Republic. That's a fact. To call yourself a Prince of Greece is to grossly insult the Greek people who chose a Republic. I might as well call Prince Charles a Prince of America. Once the people choose a Republic that's the end of it.

Now as to whether the Danish thing still applies I don't know and I'd have to research it. It is possible then that Pavlos is a Prince of Denmark but I doubt it - never heard anybody style him that. What he isn't is a Prince of a sovereign republic, Greece.

Frothy · #36 06-29-2005, 09:08 AM

Sean I think you've got this wrong, about Constantine being called Majesty by BP. I read the Court Circular and have NEVER seen him referred to by such a title, called a King, or even listed at all. He's a private citizen and nothing else. In fact that's what makes me guess the Danish title no longer applies as English protocol would list him as HRH Prince Constantine of Denmark if he were one.

branchg · #37 06-29-2005, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frothy

Sean I think you've got this wrong, about Constantine being called Majesty by BP. I read the Court Circular and have NEVER seen him referred to by such a title, called a King, or even listed at all. He's a private citizen and nothing else. In fact that's what makes me guess the Danish title no longer applies as English protocol would list him as HRH Prince Constantine of Denmark if he were one.

Constantine is never referred to as His Majesty King Constantine by the British royal family, which would be a serious breach of diplomatic protocol. Privately, he is simply known as "Tino" as he is related to Prince Philip. Furthermore, as the son of King Paul and Queen Frederika, the only status he arguably holds as a private citizen would be Constantine of Greece and Denmark.

Anne-Marie is still HRH Princess Anne-Marie of Denmark as the sister of a reigning Sovereign of Denmark. Her children cannot hold rank through the female line and have no titles, however, they are considered to be members of the Danish royal family.

Alexandria · #38 06-29-2005, 10:05 AM

Straying a bit from the titles of the Constantine and Anne-Marie, Pavlos and Marie-Chantal, what about the titles of their children?

Are Maria-Olympia, Konstantin Alexios, Achilleas and Odysseas officially Princess and Princes? I recall photo agencies referring to them as such in reference to the recent baptism, but is this really the case?

I can understand the case for Pavlos having the title of Crown Prince as when he was born Greece still was a monarchy and as the first born son he legitmately inherited that title, and that while the Greek monarchy was desposed of years later, the title was extended by Contantine to his new daughter-in-law -- which begs another question: How can a desposed King extend a title belonging to a country that does not accept him as their King?

... But really, I am curious about the "official" stance of Pavlos and Marie-Chantal's children and their titles. Years and years from now, if Konstnatin has children, would his children have titles?

Frothy · #39 06-29-2005, 10:59 AM

Alexandria,

Quote:

Straying a bit from the titles of the Constantine and Anne-Marie, Pavlos and Marie-Chantal, what about the titles of their children?

Thanks to the informative post above, I think we have just established that Pavlos and MC have no titles, so their children also have no titles. Greece is a republic, and the Danish title belongs only to Princess Anne-Marie of Denmark who does not pass it on, as a woman.

So that's Mr. and Mrs. Pavlos Glucksburg, with Master and Miss Glucksburg etc!