BELTRANEJA
Serene Highness
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,302
- City
- *********
- Country
- Spain
the property that they have bought haven´t edifications, they are building in it, they live in Porto Hely, when they are in Greece
The position of the Royal Family and attitudes to restoration
- Thread starter victoria_89
- Start date
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Cory
Heir Apparent
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2010
- Messages
- 4,668
- City
- Kingdom
- Country
- Heard and McDonald Islands
They are the only hope for a better future of Greece.
Crown Prince of Greece launches debate forum
.
Crown Prince of Greece launches debate forum
.
Last edited by a moderator:
Warren
Administrator in Memoriam
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2005
- Messages
- 15,447
- City
- Sydney
- Country
- Australia
The subject of Macedonia has no relevance to this thread and those posts will be removed.
Warren
Administrator
Warren
Administrator
Last edited:
NGalitzine
Heir Apparent
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2007
- Messages
- 5,276
- City
- Toronto (ON) & London (UK)
- Country
- Canada
Why? What could they possibly do to make the situation in Greece any better? The Greeks have a long established history of chasing their kings off the throne so I can't see them being viewed as symbols of unity.
Dman
Imperial Majesty
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2012
- Messages
- 15,827
- City
- Midwest
- Country
- United States
Perhaps the Greek Monarchy should be restored. I'm not sure if Constantine will want or even able to take on the job again but perhaps pass the throne down to Pavlos.
Things are not black or white.
In all the countries founded in the 19th century -the century of revolutions of independence-, the monarchs were appointed, and their popularity rested on how well they achieved to become 'nativized' after being installed. It is fair to say George I did a very good job in that regard -there was virtually no republicanism during his reign. His son Constantine was initially even more popular -particularly after leading the army at the Balkan wars which doubled Greek territory. For the greatest part of the Greeks, he was the personification of the king they had been asking for in the national prayers since the fall of Constantinople in the 15th century. But then the national division between the supporters of neutrality in WWI, headed by Constantine, and the supporters of entering the war in the side of the Entente, headed by prime minister Venizelos, turned a good portion of the greek public against him -although he remained hugely popular for the greatest part.
After the fateful ending of the Greco-Turkish in the aftermath of WWI, which Venizelos had began but was concluded under the leadership of his political opponents and Constantine -who had been temporarily replaced by his son Alexander during Venizelos' primeministership in the midst of WWI-, the more extreme supporters of Venizelos came into power and abolished the monarchy -although the referendum of the 1920's (fraud, to be sure, as all referendums in the first half of the 20th century) showed that, among the old inhabitants of mainland Greece (that is, excluding the refugees that fled from Asia Minor after the war ended) the popularity of the monarchy had not been significantly affected. In any case, the 2nd Hellenic Republic which lasted 11 years was a complete failure, filled was consequent coups and anarchy, and the monarchy was restored for the first time in 1935, when another referendum brought back Constantine's son, George II. The referendum was certainly fraudent as all of them were, but historians agree that a popular majority had been formed in favor of restoration (see: Richard Clogg's 'A concice history of Modern Greece').
A year later the King imposed a dictatorial regime that prepared Greece for WWII (this time in the side of the western allies), and also purged the handful of communists that then existed; overall though, the success of the regime in pushing back the Italians at the beginning of WWII ensured popularity. A little after though the Germans conquered and occupied Greece for four years, leading the legitimate government and the king to escape to the Middle East. The communist party held the banner of resistance inside the country and grew immensely popular during German occupation, leading it to succumb to the temptation of attempting to conquer power after liberation. It failed thanks to English intervention and support, but the legitimate government promised the king would return only after another referendum. This was held in 1946, and as in the meanwhile the populace had been largely scarred off by communist attrocities and the fear of a generalized civil war, the king's return was again approved. After his restoration, the last and main phase of the Greek civil war commenced -during which George II died and was succeeded by his brother Paul-, and after its ending, thanks to American contribution and aid, two decades of domestic tranquility, growth, but also anti-communist repression continued. The monarchy was identified with the anti-communist state, which caused the youth -that grew increasingly left during these decades- to become allienated and turn against it, but still the worst would have been prevented had not Constantine II, only months after succeeding to the throne, handled in a profoundly unconstructive way the political crisis of 1965, as a result of which the centrist government and its overwhelmingly popular leader George Papandreou (grandfather to the recent prime minister) were edged-out. This caused a chain of instability, which in two years-time led to the military 'intervention' of 1967 -the 'junta' that lasted 7 years. After its ending, the king was blamed by most for the turn which events had taken prior to the dictatorship, and with even the centre-right party of Constantine Karamanlis avoiding to support restoration, Greeks voted overwhelmingly against it in the referendum of 1974.
This is the story -in short- of the Greek monarchy. My conclusion was that it was a lot more popular than in its last days at several points in its history, and also had a handful of opportunities to remain in power and be assimilated more constructively in Greek political life. Unfortunately, bad luck and bad choices prevented this development. They may be blamed for a good portion of that -but not all though. Greece is certainly a tough country to rule -by any standards.
In all the countries founded in the 19th century -the century of revolutions of independence-, the monarchs were appointed, and their popularity rested on how well they achieved to become 'nativized' after being installed. It is fair to say George I did a very good job in that regard -there was virtually no republicanism during his reign. His son Constantine was initially even more popular -particularly after leading the army at the Balkan wars which doubled Greek territory. For the greatest part of the Greeks, he was the personification of the king they had been asking for in the national prayers since the fall of Constantinople in the 15th century. But then the national division between the supporters of neutrality in WWI, headed by Constantine, and the supporters of entering the war in the side of the Entente, headed by prime minister Venizelos, turned a good portion of the greek public against him -although he remained hugely popular for the greatest part.
After the fateful ending of the Greco-Turkish in the aftermath of WWI, which Venizelos had began but was concluded under the leadership of his political opponents and Constantine -who had been temporarily replaced by his son Alexander during Venizelos' primeministership in the midst of WWI-, the more extreme supporters of Venizelos came into power and abolished the monarchy -although the referendum of the 1920's (fraud, to be sure, as all referendums in the first half of the 20th century) showed that, among the old inhabitants of mainland Greece (that is, excluding the refugees that fled from Asia Minor after the war ended) the popularity of the monarchy had not been significantly affected. In any case, the 2nd Hellenic Republic which lasted 11 years was a complete failure, filled was consequent coups and anarchy, and the monarchy was restored for the first time in 1935, when another referendum brought back Constantine's son, George II. The referendum was certainly fraudent as all of them were, but historians agree that a popular majority had been formed in favor of restoration (see: Richard Clogg's 'A concice history of Modern Greece').
A year later the King imposed a dictatorial regime that prepared Greece for WWII (this time in the side of the western allies), and also purged the handful of communists that then existed; overall though, the success of the regime in pushing back the Italians at the beginning of WWII ensured popularity. A little after though the Germans conquered and occupied Greece for four years, leading the legitimate government and the king to escape to the Middle East. The communist party held the banner of resistance inside the country and grew immensely popular during German occupation, leading it to succumb to the temptation of attempting to conquer power after liberation. It failed thanks to English intervention and support, but the legitimate government promised the king would return only after another referendum. This was held in 1946, and as in the meanwhile the populace had been largely scarred off by communist attrocities and the fear of a generalized civil war, the king's return was again approved. After his restoration, the last and main phase of the Greek civil war commenced -during which George II died and was succeeded by his brother Paul-, and after its ending, thanks to American contribution and aid, two decades of domestic tranquility, growth, but also anti-communist repression continued. The monarchy was identified with the anti-communist state, which caused the youth -that grew increasingly left during these decades- to become allienated and turn against it, but still the worst would have been prevented had not Constantine II, only months after succeeding to the throne, handled in a profoundly unconstructive way the political crisis of 1965, as a result of which the centrist government and its overwhelmingly popular leader George Papandreou (grandfather to the recent prime minister) were edged-out. This caused a chain of instability, which in two years-time led to the military 'intervention' of 1967 -the 'junta' that lasted 7 years. After its ending, the king was blamed by most for the turn which events had taken prior to the dictatorship, and with even the centre-right party of Constantine Karamanlis avoiding to support restoration, Greeks voted overwhelmingly against it in the referendum of 1974.
This is the story -in short- of the Greek monarchy. My conclusion was that it was a lot more popular than in its last days at several points in its history, and also had a handful of opportunities to remain in power and be assimilated more constructively in Greek political life. Unfortunately, bad luck and bad choices prevented this development. They may be blamed for a good portion of that -but not all though. Greece is certainly a tough country to rule -by any standards.
Nikolopoulus
Nobility
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2010
- Messages
- 275
- City
- Atika
- Country
- Greece
K. Mitsotakis said: everyone know the solution to the problem after the events have occurred. Your words are reduced to the phrase, "it was a mistake I would have done differently," and the King also.
Mitsotakis,he lived this period of history, he said did not know what to do, the political situation was very confusing and hard to predict, he is a very inteligent, and he did not know what to do. Mitsotakis said that the King took the decision in 1967 in the interest of the people, did not work, but he could not judge to Constantine because, himself (k.Mitsotakis) did not know to do.
And if Karamanlis would have been in the position of King. What would he have decided? best !!!! ha! ..or worse.....
And if Greece would have not entered euro zone , we would not have crisis because we would be more rich ...or poor? , We do not control the past.
Mitsotakis,he lived this period of history, he said did not know what to do, the political situation was very confusing and hard to predict, he is a very inteligent, and he did not know what to do. Mitsotakis said that the King took the decision in 1967 in the interest of the people, did not work, but he could not judge to Constantine because, himself (k.Mitsotakis) did not know to do.
And if Karamanlis would have been in the position of King. What would he have decided? best !!!! ha! ..or worse.....
And if Greece would have not entered euro zone , we would not have crisis because we would be more rich ...or poor? , We do not control the past.
Last edited:
Cory, there is no such debate in Greece, and soon there will also not be any such prospect whatsoever. The case of the royal house is closed for Greece in the generation after Constantine. It could have been otherwise -the princes could have 'sold' the image of the family in a much more productive way, that would at least keep those remaining monarchists faithful. Instead, pro-monarchist feeling has faded even in the ranks of those who were allegient to the family 15 or 20 years ago.
I would put the blame on the children's marriages, for this 'getting out of touch' with Greek popular feeling. Because of the families they have created, both Pavlos and Nikolaos can not and will not be in Greek reality or consciousness anything more than foreign tourists. Sad but true.
I would put the blame on the children's marriages, for this 'getting out of touch' with Greek popular feeling. Because of the families they have created, both Pavlos and Nikolaos can not and will not be in Greek reality or consciousness anything more than foreign tourists. Sad but true.
Nikolopoulus
Nobility
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2010
- Messages
- 275
- City
- Atika
- Country
- Greece
the princes of Greece are not disconnected from their country, The politicians of their country have made that the greek people are disconnected of their princes, it is different. the greeks do not know the life of their princes.
The Prince Paul knows the current situation in Greece and know the reason for the current Greek economic situation, many Greeks do not know because it has produced .
The Prince Paul knows the current situation in Greece and know the reason for the current Greek economic situation, many Greeks do not know because it has produced .
Warren
Administrator in Memoriam
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2005
- Messages
- 15,447
- City
- Sydney
- Country
- Australia
Yes Cory, but let's be realistic. Just because the King is warmly welcomed by some of the Greek populace, it doesn't necessarily mean they want either him or the institution to be restored in a political or constitutional sense.
Elizabeth II and Prince Harry are warmly received in the United States; the royal wedding was watched whole or in part by millions of Americans; the birth of the Cambridge child next month will make the front pages of most US big city newspapers. It will be prime time US TV news, possibly even the leading story of the day, and the royal birth will be discussed on all the late night US talk shows. However, none of this translates into a groundswell of support for a change to a monarchical form of government or the United Kingdom of America.
If by some slim chance King Constantine was restored to the Greek throne tomorrow, he would not be running the government by royal decree or appointing himself Prime Minister or Finance Minister. His restoration would have negligible effect on the dire strait of Greek government finances, the crippling public debt, the rate of unemployment, the oversized public sector, the attitude of European central bankers to the Greek economic malaise, the future of the Euro and the European Union, or whether Angela Merkel wins the next election.
Elizabeth II and Prince Harry are warmly received in the United States; the royal wedding was watched whole or in part by millions of Americans; the birth of the Cambridge child next month will make the front pages of most US big city newspapers. It will be prime time US TV news, possibly even the leading story of the day, and the royal birth will be discussed on all the late night US talk shows. However, none of this translates into a groundswell of support for a change to a monarchical form of government or the United Kingdom of America.
If by some slim chance King Constantine was restored to the Greek throne tomorrow, he would not be running the government by royal decree or appointing himself Prime Minister or Finance Minister. His restoration would have negligible effect on the dire strait of Greek government finances, the crippling public debt, the rate of unemployment, the oversized public sector, the attitude of European central bankers to the Greek economic malaise, the future of the Euro and the European Union, or whether Angela Merkel wins the next election.
fandesacs2003
Heir Apparent
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
- Messages
- 5,552
- City
- Athens
- Country
- Angola
Most of the young generation of Greeks have even not a clear idea who is really King Costantin. Some of "people press" readers know the young Princes thanks to the glittering Marie-Chantal and Tatiana, but they are unable to put a correctly the facts and period about the Monarchy in Greece
As for the older generation who lived the monarchy in Greece, just note a fact. In the 1974 referendum, the monarchy received roughly 30% pro. 40 years after there is no reason that this 30% has increased, many of this voters do not live anymore.
As for the older generation who lived the monarchy in Greece, just note a fact. In the 1974 referendum, the monarchy received roughly 30% pro. 40 years after there is no reason that this 30% has increased, many of this voters do not live anymore.
I would say indifferently more than warmly. I've been present in one such -out of coincidence. No one turns up to protest or shout against them, but no hordes of fans either. Most just bypass them.
orrinhoover
Newbie
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2006
- Messages
- 7
- City
- Los Angeles
- Country
- United States
Speaking as a rare American monarchist, I've always felt that countries with monarchical histories should do all they can to maintain the institution at all costs. To get rid of it usually leads to political, social and economic hardship for generations (Germany, Austria, Russia), but the paradigm is a bit different for countries such as Greece, Romania or Bulgaria where the monarchy was imported from abroad. I have no doubt that the present descendants of those royal families are fiercely patriotic and love the countries over which their families used to reign, but I begrudgingly agree with tamta... there's really not that much interest in Greece for the return of the monarchy. And was Warren so ably pointed out, Greece is suffering so much right now that a debate about the return of the monarchy would be out of place and to some offensive. I could see a future for the Greek royal family in Greek life if they were to model themselves after the Romanian royal family: be out among the people, be seen, be heard, act like you're reigning, act like royalty, live like royalty, and do all you can to help the people, to raise their morale, etc. The country may continue to be a republic, but it could be a "crowned republic." A privitized monarchy, if you will. That model seems to be working well in Romania and also in Serbia. Perhaps if Pavlos and Marie-Chantal lived full time in Greece and raised their children there, they would bring the people around to valuing them and seeing them as an asset rather than as a relic of the past. I doubt the political system of Greece will ever change again, as the King himself said in an interview with CNN's Richard Quest a few years ago, but they can still be of service to the people. They just have to be there full time and put themselves at their former subject's disposal. If they were to do that, who knows what could happen? Just my $1.50 worth.
I agree with orrinhoover, except in one point:
Yes, what you describe is what the royal house should probably do/have done, in order to retain a place in Greek public life and some relation to the people. But may I add, in order to do that, and be able to relate to the Greeks of today and remind them of their own patriotism and Greekness, they -the children of Constantine- should have followed the example of all the other European royals of their generation and marry commoners of their nationality. There is simply NO way at all, that any modern Greek could plausibly relate to the family that a prince who has spent only a few weeks of his whole life in the country has created with an American duty-free new-money heiress. I am currently based in Greece, and should anyone spend only sometime here they would realize why. The case with Nikolaos could be different -he was alot of people's favorite to begin with-, but unfortunately he went down the same road with his marriage.
The relation of the royal house with Greek reality ends with Constantine. they will look completely alien to Greek in the generations after him. Sad but true.
Yes, what you describe is what the royal house should probably do/have done, in order to retain a place in Greek public life and some relation to the people. But may I add, in order to do that, and be able to relate to the Greeks of today and remind them of their own patriotism and Greekness, they -the children of Constantine- should have followed the example of all the other European royals of their generation and marry commoners of their nationality. There is simply NO way at all, that any modern Greek could plausibly relate to the family that a prince who has spent only a few weeks of his whole life in the country has created with an American duty-free new-money heiress. I am currently based in Greece, and should anyone spend only sometime here they would realize why. The case with Nikolaos could be different -he was alot of people's favorite to begin with-, but unfortunately he went down the same road with his marriage.
The relation of the royal house with Greek reality ends with Constantine. they will look completely alien to Greek in the generations after him. Sad but true.
Why didn't King Constantine abdicate before the referendum that abolished the monarchy and suggest constitutional changes to limit the power of the monarch?
It seems to me that someone who did what Constantine did- sanctioning a coup by an oppressive military regime- wouldn't have a chance to be restored to power, but perhaps the monarchy in general could have been saved if the institution were reformed.
It seems to me that someone who did what Constantine did- sanctioning a coup by an oppressive military regime- wouldn't have a chance to be restored to power, but perhaps the monarchy in general could have been saved if the institution were reformed.
Nikolopoulus
Nobility
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2010
- Messages
- 275
- City
- Atika
- Country
- Greece
King Constantine in parliament of the United States, made a speech in which he said "this is not my government" , it is possible for you and others, it has no value, but in international law, this is known as a unilateral act with the force of law, and implied that the Crown did not considered legitimate the government . After this speech the King's position is determined by the rule of law in force in Greece, the colonels did not abrogated the constitution and therefore the position of the monarch is determined by the Constitution...........(it is very large of explain)
Currently the functions of the Presidents of the Republics are similar to those of the King and no one criticizes, if the Greek monarchy had more relevance in the policy, was due to political circumstances that suffered the country, the lack of parliamentary majorities that hindered the creation of governments, the problem of Cyprus....... The queen elizabeth of england has more functions that the former King of greece, but bipartisanship has favored creation of governments , other example, the King Belgium has been essential to formation of government by the difficulty to parliamentary majorities...... Everything else you said is incongruous, because it no reflects historical facts, The King of Greece could not ask for anything, because the Colonels modified the Constitution and created a Republic in 1973. The current Constitution has great similarities with Constitution of 1952(No, Head of State). One King does not abdicate in a republic, today in Greece, the experts ask that the functions of president of the republic should be delimited
Currently the functions of the Presidents of the Republics are similar to those of the King and no one criticizes, if the Greek monarchy had more relevance in the policy, was due to political circumstances that suffered the country, the lack of parliamentary majorities that hindered the creation of governments, the problem of Cyprus....... The queen elizabeth of england has more functions that the former King of greece, but bipartisanship has favored creation of governments , other example, the King Belgium has been essential to formation of government by the difficulty to parliamentary majorities...... Everything else you said is incongruous, because it no reflects historical facts, The King of Greece could not ask for anything, because the Colonels modified the Constitution and created a Republic in 1973. The current Constitution has great similarities with Constitution of 1952(No, Head of State). One King does not abdicate in a republic, today in Greece, the experts ask that the functions of president of the republic should be delimited
I really doubt it -their mother like a good new-money American sent them to a french school, and never bother to learn herself-, and wonder how decent that would be. very curious to listen..
The King of the Hellenes was sent from power in 1974 by a referendum following military dictatorship. He and his family are widely disreputed in their own country for their past political influence of, e.g. swearing militants to power after a coup etc., so as to be asked to obtain Greek citizenships to deal with their affairs with the state and pay regular taxes. The King of the Hellenes is being refered to as the former king by the mass media day in and day out and now the royal family has also started to be named likewise. His palaces have been converted into museums or libraries and cultural centres.
What's more than that is now Prince Nicholas and Princess Tatiana have permanently moved to Athens, Greece to live in Castri and occupy part of a famous residence of the former socialist leader of the Papandreou family. This they do along with the King of the Hellenes who has also left excile in London and lives in Athens at an old age today.
Last edited by a moderator:
fandesacs2003
Heir Apparent
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
- Messages
- 5,552
- City
- Athens
- Country
- Angola
Exactly my thoughts!
MC tooked the glittering part of an ex-monarchy, i.e. Title, tiaras and royal events, but none of the responsibilities. She even did not bother to learn the language, and she never took part to any action, charity or other, related to the country she is is supposed to reign. A part of vacationing, her only action relative to Greece was to open a shop in Athens.
I do not like CP Katherine of Serbia, but look how involved she is in the Serbian reality, and she even learned the language.
MC has examples to watch and learn, but she does not care.
Last edited:
The house of Nicolas and tatiana, actually it is not confirmed , I have read in one blog that others speak of a house in another residential area, on the other hand Sofia Papandreou owns this building for rent apartments, but she does not lives in Greece. I have read that Prince Nicolaos is not in Greece to be politician, he is by motives of businesses, and this is very important because these companies provide jobs.
I like it because this is very good for Greek economy
I like it because this is very good for Greek economy
Last edited:
The chances of the greek throne being resurrected used to be minimal for years and years until now, when the institution of monarchy is gaining back some of its popularity and greek royals have been performing their duties more often than before given the right publicity, thus establishing a preference in the public opinion of the monarchy as a unifying symbol for Greece and its financial and political crisis. It stands more chances than ever before of being restored, maybe even since the referendum of 1974. With the nazist party coming first in opinion polls and royalist parties being more and bigger than before, it could well be that we have a significant chance of King Constantine ascending to the throne or Crown Prince Paul succeeding him.
Blog Real
Imperial Majesty
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2013
- Messages
- 12,600
- City
- Lisboa
- Country
- Portugal
What is the royal family's position on the restoration?
I think Nikolaos is the most interested in restoration. He was the only son of the king who moved to Greece. What is the opinion of Nikolaos on the restoration?
Is there any party that supports the restoration of the monarchy in Greece?
I think Nikolaos is the most interested in restoration. He was the only son of the king who moved to Greece. What is the opinion of Nikolaos on the restoration?
Is there any party that supports the restoration of the monarchy in Greece?
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
Royal Ladies of Luxembourg Fashion and Style Part 5: June 2023 -
- Latest: hereditarytitles
