The position of the Royal Family and attitudes to restoration

[CrownPrincess5]

I read a really touching article in a magazine some time ago. Pavlos mentioned how much he would like to be apart of Greece and how the RF is trying to ingratiate themselves with the people. Pavlos said it was sad that he doesn't have a country to rule, unlike his other royal friends. I do hope one day their throne will be restored...but then again, I just hope Greece does whats best for Greece.

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

There are other guests here who reside in Greece and are better equipped to tell us about the people's feelings and attitude.
My impression is that younger Greeks have no problem with, in fact many of them like, King Constantine's children. The issue though is that, at best, they don't care about the monarchy, at worst they hate it.
As King Constantine himself put it in an interview issued to CNN, the likelihood of restoration is highly improbable. In my humble opinion, the chances of Greece becoming a monarchy again are as high as those of the USA turning back to British rule or having their own king.

 

[snowflower]

You are right . younger people don't really have a problem with King Constantine' children. They basically know them through the TV and the magazines and they view them as they would a celebrity or a famous person : some people like them (some more some less) and others are not interested about their life or whereabouts. I was at a friend's house when TV showed Nicolaos and Tatiana's press conference and her 80 something years old grandfather started nagging that they really shoulnd't come back for the wedding etc, etc and my friend just said rolling her eyes " oh please, as if they could do anything bad to us! Why not come? Who cares? It's their wedding, it's their bussiness" . I didn't hear any of my friends or my classmates at the university complaining about the wedding. When it comes to the instution, the vast majority doesn't really care about monarchy because they consider it a solved matter that belongs to our history books and has nothing to do with our lives. Most youngsters are so detached from the whole monarchy thing that they can't get why people used to get so passionate about them in the past. Most find the general idea of existing monarchies in Europe simply a relic of old times which is meaningless in today's world but they they conclude in " if their people want them , who are we to complain?" . I believe that there are few Greeks under the age of 40 who are spending enough energy either to "adore" or "hate" monarchy.

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

In effect, the same is true about all Mediterranean countries. The only exception, Spain, owes the continued monarchy to the superb personality, honesty, immediacy and candor of Juan-Carlos and Sofia, two good and outstanding people that were/are truly unique in the royal history of Europe and won't be repeated again. I wish King Juan-Carlos a very very very long life because it is likely he will be the first and last king after Franco.

 

[Odette]

We are mostly in agreement that the Greek Monarchy is not going to be restored. We have different views as to why and what mistakes they made along the way and who was to be blamed more than others. In my view, if King Paul lived another 20 years or so, the Monarchy in Greece today would be alive and well. However I had to smile about a post above that Pavlos is sad he does not have a country to rule. If this is what he actually said it seems to me that he did not learn from history and does not know Greeks as good as he should.

 

[snowflower]

I agree Odette , if that interview ever reached Greek magazines and press with the word rule on it, even younger Greeks would have not one single doubt that their parents and grandparents were 100% correct for practically kicking the royal family out of the country after the referendum.

 

[IRIS1983]

The Princess Alexia said in interview Vanity Fair that she knew that in Greece she was not loved, but she perceived that Greece was her native country, she was respectful with Greece. She was sincere, to me sadden it, because, back time , one person said in this forum that the magazines of Greece, they laughed of Princess Alexia. I read it in this forum, I remember it, because I like Princess Alexia.It was here, the person who said this was greek.

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

In my view, if King Paul lived another 20 years or so, the Monarchy in Greece today would be alive and well.

This is a good hypothetical bet because Paul was well liked by the people. I've never heard a negative word about him. I think the fatal mistake was the disagreement with George Papandreou. Even Irene acknowledges that old Papandreou liked them and used to charm them as kids. It is very well documented that old George Papandreou had no intention to change the polity, let alone topple Constantine.

However I had to smile about a post above that Pavlos is sad he does not have a country to rule. If this is what he actually said it seems to me that he did not learn from history and does not know Greeks as good as he should.

Well, the gentleman is a good person [I've heard this from his Greek peers at the Hellenic School in London] but quite limited in many ways.

The Princess Alexia said in interview Vanity Fair that she knew that in Greece she was not loved, but she perceived that Greece was her native country, she was respectful with Greece. She was sincere, to me sadden it, because, back time , one person said in this forum that the magazines of Greece, they laughed of Princess Alexia. I read it in this forum, I remember it, because I like Princess Alexia.It was here, the person who said this was greek.

This is not true. Alexia is well liked by the Greek people, particularly because she has a round face and looks very Greek. If there is one single person that is strenuously disliked and constantly ridiculed by the Greek tabloids, among the newer generation, it is Marie-Chantal Miller. And I believe Constantine knew that from the outset but the family decided to go ahead with this marriage given the negligible likelihood of restoration.

 

[IRIS1983]

No this is not true. When this person made the comment of Princess Alexia, I remember it, this person was spoken about MC and Alexia. He said the MC was treated with respect in magazines and those same magazines laughed of Princess Alexia.

 

[Kastalia]

Alexia is well liked by the Greek people, particularly because she has a round face and looks very Greek. If there is one single person that is strenuously disliked and constantly ridiculed by the Greek tabloids, among the newer generation, it is Marie-Chantal Miller.

True.And i don't understand the reason of this attitute towards her. She has never lived in Greece, she has a huge fortune from her father and never asked anything.

 

[IRIS1983]

And she said in an old interview that when she traveled to Greece for the funeral of her grandmother Queen federika, she was more nervous because something inside her said that she was returning to her homeland.

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

No this is not true. When this person made the comment of Princess Alexia, I remember it, this person was spoken about MC and Alexia. He said the MC was treated with respect in magazines and those same magazines laughed of Princess Alexia.

The way Greek tabloids and the Greek people assess "celebrity" A or B are two entirely different and quite distinct issues.
At any rate, MC exerts quite an appeal to peasant-turned-affluent middle class and there are plenty of those, nowadays, in Greece.
However, she is heavily disliked by the old, established and educated middle class. And I won't let myself elaborate any further on that. Those who can understand what I am referring to, will understand.

"Poor" Alexia does not dispose of the trashy glamour that the tabloids are looking for and perhaps this is a reason they write negative things about her. Nonetheless, the Greek people overall have a positive opinion of her.
Anyway, Greek boys and girls who went to the Hellenic Community School in London, are very fond of, and have only good things to say about her.

True.And i don't understand the reason of this attitute towards her. She has never lived in Greece, she has a huge fortune from her father and never asked anything.

Fairly or unfairly, MC Miller is considered new money and whatever attributes go with it follow her wherever she goes. Greece, even though the overwhelming majority of its population are former peasants, has always had a very small, closely-knit, very private and very sophisticated upper class which continues to be influential despite the fact that it stays away from the limelight! And this class will never approve of her for reasons that they won't even bother to discuss!

 

[snowflower]

I don't believe it is just the upper class you are reffering to that possibly dislikes her. Many average Greeks , who are not upper middle class in any way . consider MC and Pavlos' wedding to we a cliché and in a bad way. The whole " the American heiress marries the deposit royal " situation ,as many perceive it even if this is not the case , seems a little ridiculous.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

My opinio about King pavlo:
King Pavlo was king loved , but you do not forget, that early 60's, the Greek political class began to attack to the King Pavlo, and I would say that this campaign against the monarchy continued against his son.....By politicians!!!!

Princess Alexia:
I do not think reporters have much appreciation for Princess Alexia.

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

This is not correct. Politicians or people altogether do not start attacking anyone out of the blue and for no reason!!!!
King Paul was a good man, very dear man, but unfortunately, he often allowed his spouse to mingle with politics and interfere with decisions that were critical to the Nation.
In 1963, while Queen Frederika and Princess Yriny were attending the wedding of the Duke of Kent, in London, a certain Mrs Betty Abatielos, British wife of an imprisoned Greek communist, attacked physically Frederika, in the streets of London. Frederika, in panic, sought refuge in a private home. In result, there was international publicity and inevitable embarrassment of the Greek Government and the State altogether. Because of this event, Constantine Karamanlis advised the Palace that a State Visit to London later that year should be postponed. The Palace declined and the visit went on.
This event, along with the murder of Leftist Greek MP (EDA Party), professor of Osbtetrics and Gynaecology, Dr. Gregory Lamprakis by a paramilitary, extra-governmental, allegedly associated with the Palace gang caused elder Karamanlis to utter the historic, "I wonder, at this juncture, who is governing the country" !!!!!

We are all still paying dearly for this political anomaly that started unfolding in the early 1960s.

Had these events as well as the idiotically unwise handling of the conflict with George Papandreou by young Constantine, in 1965, not taken place, there would have been no Junta, no Andreas Papandreou, Constantine would still be King and we would all be happy, enjoying the sea and the sun.

Perhaps, like philosopher Yriny puts it in private discussions, "All which happened was destined to happen".

And something else. There are other threads for likes/dislikes. In this one, we should focus on facts and arguments based on facts rather than emotion or for ventilation of monarchist/antimonarchist feelings.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

MISOTAKIS said anyone in the situation of King did not know what to do, he did the best he could ... And I would add that it is easy to judge others after the facts have occurred.

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

MISOTAKIS said anyone in the situation of King did not know what to do, he did the best he could ....

What Mr. Mitsotakis said for that matter is obviously heavily biased, thus inadmissible for discussion, because he, also, was causally related to the political anomaly, the subsequent instability of July 1965 and the ensued torrential cascade of events that led to the take-over of power by the peasant colonels!

And I would add that it is easy to judge others after the facts have occurred.

Alas, history is always written after the facts, and a King is no "others". History is ruthless, because privilege by birth goes hand-in-hand with great responsibility.
By the way, I am not judging Constantine, the person, but his actions, the decisions he made and the steps he took! And they were a total disaster, from beginning to end. From July 1965 all the way to the naive counter-coup of December 1967, his actions were not just unwise but amateurish!
Let face it. It is true that the Greeks never liked the monarchy, as is the case with all mediterranean European nations. It is also true, however, that the Greek Dynasty had always been taking arbitrary actions, treating the people like subjects rather that citizens. Thus, it would have required a person as democratic and wise as Juan-Carlos and Sofia for the monarchy to be still present in Greece - and even that is doubtful.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

Have you ever heard the King Juan Carlos to thank the awards that he has received? King Don Juan Carlos when receive awards for his job, always says"this award is not only mine, is for all those who helped me to be here:
He always sets :
A: Percuato Fernandez Miranda. b: Adolfo suarez ..
And these others:
Gutierrez Mellado minister of defend of the Government of Adolfo Suarez,... and Franco, he was monarchical, finally the people of Spain, never have succeeded in Spain the Republics, only had two, and during a couple of years. You judge the King of Greece, you language is clear. The Spain King once said,"I have been lucky not to be surrounded by traitors"

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

Of course! King Juan-Carlos was right to call traitors those who attempted to reinstate a dictatorship in Spain . King Constantine, on the other hand, aligned himself, willingly or unwillingly - it doesn't matter, with four peasant tyrants who were traitors and imposed a dictatorship.
Therefore, we have here a huge semeiologic difference, don't we!!

Had King Constantine, like Juan-Carlos, called the traitors traitors and refused to swear them in, he would, in all likelihood, still be king of Greece!
Whether this decision was the result of poor judgment, inexperience, young age or whatever other reason is irrelevant insofar as the fate of Greece was concerned!

In result of this monumental stupidity, Greece went through seven years of terror and, since 1981 and for 29 years now, has been suffering the consequences of ochlocracy, that is, the Rule of the Mob. And now, the Country is paying dearly for the Rule of the Mob and the gangsters!

We, EU, NATO and USA-friendly, conservative, hard-working, law-abiding, tax-paying Greeks will never forget the harm done to our Motherland!

 

[BELTRANEJA]

statements of the King Juan Carlos were made in 1978, the coup d'etat in Spain was in 1981.The statements of King Juan Carlos made reference to the year 1975, some people said that Alias Navarro, the last president of the Franco regime didn´t wanted that Juan Carlos was King.

 

[Jaya]

I read a really touching article in a magazine some time ago. Pavlos mentioned how much he would like to be apart of Greece and how the RF is trying to ingratiate themselves with the people. Pavlos said it was sad that he doesn't have a country to rule, unlike his other royal friends. I do hope one day their throne will be restored...but then again, I just hope Greece does whats best for Greece.

If the Greeks ever get the Elgin Marbles back then there might be chances for a restoration of the monarchy.

 

[Cory]

Nobody knows the future of Greece because Greece changed between Monarchy and Republic different times.The problem is that Crown Prince pavlos should go and live in Greece and be better known by the people.

 

[Kastalia]

Nobody knows the future of Greece because Greece changed between Monarchy and Republic different times.

Nobody knows the future of Greece? I guess you mean that nobody knows the future of the ex-royal family of Greece who was kicked out.Trust me you have no idea about how Pavlos would be treated if he lived in Greece,especially now with all that crisis thing.

Jaya,i respect you as member here and you seem to be a very thoughtful person but what has the return of the Elgin Marbles to do with restoration? The Elgin Marbles case has to do with Greek culture and history and Glucksburgs with monarchy.There will be no chance of restoration in Greece.People ignore them,if you lived in Greece you would know that they get a very low publicity when they come here,and they are always monked.

 

[GRspecialforces]

If the Greeks ever get the Elgin Marbles back then there might be chances for a restoration of the monarchy.

what? how did you combine these two?

Nobody knows the future of Greece? I guess you mean that nobody knows the future of the ex-royal family of Greece who was kicked out.Trust me you have no idea about how Pavlos would be treated if he lived in Greece,especially now with all that crisis thing.

Jaya,i respect you as member here and you seem to be a very thoughtful person but what has the return of the Elgin Marbles to do with restoration? The Elgin Marbles case has to do with Greek culture and history and Glucksburgs with monarchy.There will be no chance of restoration in Greece.People ignore them,if you lived in Greece you would know that they get a very low publicity when they come here,and they are always monked.

i can see a warm welcome for his american wife too, who will talk about the latest fashion news all the time. oh god, what do they think here? the marbles, souvlaki, anna-maria, mousaka, acropolis, everything they heard about greece seems to be combined for them. like in that silly vardalos' movies...
no offence meant, but...but!

gregory

 

[roimat]

Nobody knows the future of Greece? I guess you mean that nobody knows the future of the ex-royal family of Greece who was kicked out.Trust me you have no idea about how Pavlos would be treated if he lived in Greece,especially now with all that crisis thing.

Jaya,i respect you as member here and you seem to be a very thoughtful person but what has the return of the Elgin Marbles to do with restoration? The Elgin Marbles case has to do with Greek culture and history and Glucksburgs with monarchy.There will be no chance of restoration in Greece.People ignore them,if you lived in Greece you would know that they get a very low publicity when they come here,and they are always monked.

What terrible lies can one person tell in so many little words...When they are here, the members of the Royal Family are ALWAYS greeted with joy from everybody. You probably don't live in Greece...

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

What terrible lies can one person tell in so many little words...When they are here, the members of the Royal Family are ALWAYS greeted with joy from everybody. You probably don't live in Greece...

Neither statement is true to the point. The overwhelming majority do not care about the former royal family.
And certainly, 43 years after their departure, no one can blame Greece's ordeal onto them.
In a way, one may say, that the Greek royals took their "revenge" because up untlil 1974, many Greeks were attributing Greece's vicissitudes to the monarchy.
Forty-three years later, and following 20 years of "clepto-socialist" rule, the Greeks know, now, with certainty that, neither the monarchy nor the conservative party, but themselves are the exclusive cause of Greece's misfortunes!!

 

[Kastalia]

When they are here, the members of the Royal Family are ALWAYS greeted with joy from everybody. You probably don't live in Greece...

Yeah right,i don't live in Greece.. I walk outside the Presidential Mansion only three times a day while going to work down-town,and each time i think of all those ridiculous demands they made.The point is that you and me probably live in different planets and not just country.And i'd like to give emphasis on the fact that i don't have leftist backround at all,i'm very conservative.
''They are always greeted with joy from everyone..''
Whatever you say..They only journalists that always write indeed positive articles about them are the columnists of life&style magazine.Seriously now.The rest of the press monk them.And common people ingore them,Vlaha is right.And it is even worse.The only member of the ex-royal family that is treated respectfully by people and press is Princess Irene.

 

[GRspecialforces]

What terrible lies can one person tell in so many little words...When they are here, the members of the Royal Family are ALWAYS greeted with joy from everybody. You probably don't live in Greece...

for a start, these things cannot be black or white. there are a lot of colors in the middle too. secondly, when you see people welcoming them in greece with such great joy, as you say, did you ever wonder that maybe this happens not because they're all monarchists (how many of them do we have?), but becuase the part of the press that licks them have made them huge "stars" over the years? what angelina and what monica bellucci? we have marie-chantal and tatiana with their glamorous looks. when they visit, they cause bigger panic and enthusiasm than the hollywood stars... the beautiful children, the perfect smiles and families, the wedding that's coming... just look around you. 10 years ago we didn't even know who they are. last year i heard for the 1st time that constantine has two more children. no kidding, just think about it a bit.

with respect,
gregory

 

[Cory]

Princess Maria-Chantal does not seem to know how to deal with the greek people.I suppose she does not even know Greek.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Princess Maria-Chantal does not seem to know how to deal with the greek people.I suppose she does not even know Greek.

Sorry to ask but why should she know how to deal with the people of a country she does not rule over or live in?
And why should she learn a language, when she is undoubtedly unlikely to use it.