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  #321  
Old 01-30-2011, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filipposathens View Post
I agree with Nikolopoulus.The concept of homeland was introduced in Greece by the monarchy.
This statement is partly correct. The concept of homeland was introduced everywhere in Europe during the early 19th century - it didn't exist before - and has nothing to do with any specific monarchy. It so happened that at the time, post-revolution, newly-formed Greece became shortly a monarchy. For historic reasons, the only nation-building dynasties in the Balkans were, the Petrovic in Montenegro, and the Karadjordje in Serbia.
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  #322  
Old 01-31-2011, 04:46 PM
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Dear friend, the concept of homeland was created by the Peace of Westphalia, which ended the war of 100 years, and created the first states in Europe, Greece became a state in the nineteenth century, with its independence, the KIngs were who brought the concept to Greece. They and only they indoctrinated to the Greek society in this concept. first in the militaries and then in the people
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  #323  
Old 02-01-2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlaha Karatsokaros View Post
This statement is partly correct. The concept of homeland was introduced everywhere in Europe during the early 19th century - it didn't exist before - and has nothing to do with any specific monarchy. It so happened that at the time, post-revolution, newly-formed Greece became shortly a monarchy. For historic reasons, the only nation-building dynasties in the Balkans were, the Petrovic in Montenegro, and the Karadjordje in Serbia.
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Originally Posted by Filipposathens View Post
Dear friend, the concept of homeland was created by the Peace of Westphalia, which ended the war of 100 years, and created the first states in Europe, Greece became a state in the nineteenth century, with its independence, the KIngs were who brought the concept to Greece. They and only they indoctrinated to the Greek society in this concept. first in the militaries and then in the people
Some have argued that the modern ideas of nationalism and nation-states flowed on from the French Revolution, Congress of Vienna, and 1848. But even this can be debated forever and a day. Certainly, the 19th century saw national awakenings in territories ruled by the Austrian, Russian and Ottoman empires.

Remember that only Montenegro and the Mani Peninsula managed to retain any kind of independence in the Ottoman period of the region, due to geography. Parts of Albania and Greece (usually the border areas, under influence of Albanian aristocracy) were hard for them to control, also due to their geography. Also, there was a Greek nobility, that of Phanariote Greeks who were princes in Moldavia and Wallachia (Romania), and you can find their descendants in Romania and elsewhere. Some of whom were among the leaders of the Greek War of Independence too, like the Ypsilantis family.

The Serbs had attempted numerous uprisings, there was also the Karposh rebellion in Kumanovo. These had Austrian support, Austria and Venice had consistently fought the Ottomans for a few centuries- and the Venetian presence in and around Greece (itself derived from the Fourth Crusade- a story in itself) was also significant. In the early 19th century, the Serbs rose against Ottoman rule, and succeeded in re-establishing the Serbian state, giving rise to two rival royal families. The successful Serbian uprising paved the way for similar to happen, including Greece.

Regarding the homeland idea... in Ancient Greece various states exercised hegemonic influence at one time or another: Athens, Sparta, Macedon, etc. The first time Greece was really unified was under the Romans, and the Roman Empire was really a marriage of Greek and Roman civilisations, and then the Byzantine Empire.

With the emergence of nationalism in the 19th century, there was a strong desire amongst intellectuals and politicians to lay claim to territories considered part of ancient homelands. This existed in many newly-emerged nations of the time, including Greece. In Greece this was called the Megali Idea. Although, Greeks for centuries had inhabited other territories claimed. During the reign of George I, they would actually seek to put this into practice.
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  #324  
Old 02-01-2011, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
It might be a miracle or fascinating for once to see a Greek royal marry another Greek. I cannot remember when this last happened. But it certainly would assist to have them marry into their own community instead of outside so systematically and methodically.
I think that it happened only twice in al history of the GRF

- King Alexandros and Aspasia Manou (1919)
- Prince Michael of Greece and Marina Karella (1965)

The two girls of Prince Michel de Grece being both married, the only remaining chances to see a Greek Royal marrying a Greek are Prince Philippos and Princess Theodora.
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  #325  
Old 02-01-2011, 10:38 AM
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I would say the chances are reduced to Prince Philippos, I don´t think this future woman would be greek, but I think he could marry a woman from Cyprus, because he has many friends in Cyprus , I have seen pictures of him with his friends of Cyprus. Queen Anne Marie said in one interview that he has very friends of Cyprus, it is true.
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  #326  
Old 02-02-2011, 12:12 PM
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If you excuse me, the statement of Filippos is not partly correct, it's an overstatement, hence historically incorrect. In Greece, the idea of the separate nation was born around the time of the French Revolution, the Greek Illuminati that lived in Europe had managed to awaken the nation, offer them education, the basic weapon that helped the Greeks to rise up and fight for their freedom. It was Adamantios Korais, Rigas Ferreos and many others that transferred to Greece the liberal ideas of Voltaire and many more. We now know that Voltaire was translated and taught in the Greek schools before the Greek Revolution. I would recommend to all fellow Greek posters a new informative documentary, "1821". You will see what I mean. King Otto and the Glucksburgs came many decades after the facts I just mentioned in my post. Let's not fool ourselves, these Kings had always been a "foreign body" inside Greece and no matter how dreamy the courtship and wedding of Constantine and Anne-Marie was, straight facts from our own history prove that the Kings did not introduce the concept of the Greek nation in our country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlaha Karatsokaros View Post
This statement is partly correct. The concept of homeland was introduced everywhere in Europe during the early 19th century - it didn't exist before - and has nothing to do with any specific monarchy. It so happened that at the time, post-revolution, newly-formed Greece became shortly a monarchy. For historic reasons, the only nation-building dynasties in the Balkans were, the Petrovic in Montenegro, and the Karadjordje in Serbia.
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  #327  
Old 02-02-2011, 01:38 PM
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the first European states were born with peace of Westphalia with it embraced the theorys of Hugo Grotius,,....... create territorial spaces delimited by the border and created the concept of sovereignty, and with it the concept of nation. Voltaire is the later . To be known internationally as a state, must be recognized by another state, and this came to our nation with the monarchy, why do you think was chosen how King of Greece, the son of one danish King Chrisitian ?????? Greece needed of other states that recognized the international status of State, by this was chose to George as King. This is a problem present in Greece with problem of Macedonia as State , Dora Bakoyannis said things logicals when was Minister about the problem of Macedonia, she spoke of this. Pardon my English is not good
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  #328  
Old 02-04-2011, 06:30 PM
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At any rate, Greece became a sovereign state more that 30 years before the arrival of the Glucksburgs and before Otto of Bavaria. It did expand significantly under the Glucksburg rule, but the state pre-existed for decades
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  #329  
Old 02-04-2011, 06:42 PM
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I think that Filipos is speaking that Greece started to have Embassies in others countries with the King George.
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  #330  
Old 02-08-2011, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA View Post
I think that Filipos is speaking that Greece started to have Embassies in others countries with the King George.
This is also incorrect. For instance, Spyridon Trikoupis was minister extraordinary and plenipotentiary to the Court of Saint James well before the arrival of King George I to Greece.
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  #331  
Old 05-08-2011, 02:10 PM
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I noticed King Konstantinos II is received with much warmth everywhere in Greece.Nobody sees in that a sign for a possible return of Monarchy in the future?
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  #332  
Old 05-24-2011, 10:47 AM
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After so many years since the change of polity, people do not even remember events of the past. Why should people be hostile to him?

Then again, the monarchy enjoys the same popularity as the Communist party jointly with other left groups,, approximately 10-12%, according to some polls.
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  #333  
Old 05-24-2011, 11:28 AM
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The monarchy has not been studied in schools with the objectivity that this required, Obviously this is a long time since the school instilled a negative view of the monarchy which is obviously not going to change. And yet the political dynasty in power,they inherit the office of their predecessor(from father to sons), authentic incompetent who only care about power and keep power in our country , they are not see with a negative vision.
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  #334  
Old 05-27-2011, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
I think that it happened only twice in al history of the GRF

- King Alexandros and Aspasia Manou (1919)
- Prince Michael of Greece and Marina Karella (1965)

The two girls of Prince Michel de Grece being both married, the only remaining chances to see a Greek Royal marrying a Greek are Prince Philippos and Princess Theodora.
Not only two...If i can remember right, princess Eleni, who was grand duchess of Russia, married admiral Ioannidis, and they are buried both in Tatoi. Also princess Cathrine, who married an Englishman named Brandam, she died in 2007.
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  #335  
Old 05-29-2011, 11:37 PM
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Are the Greek People more sympathetic towards the Greek Royal family these days due to the current lack of trust towards the politicians?
Is HM King Constantine more popular due to this?


The monarchy in Greece would be great for this country after what the Politicians have managed to do in the last 40 years. What does the new generation have to look forwrd to? Politicians that are so corrupted and that have brought the cradle of democracy to shame. What does Papoulias do for the nation? HM King Constantine ii brought so much publicity to Spetses with the wedding of his son. These families draw attention to a nation. Take the british Royal Wedding for example, they generated revenue of almost 1 billion dollars. What revenue is Papoulias going to raise? Papandreou will only raise revenue by selling off state assets. I say Bring Back the Royal family... They will do good as symbolic heads of state...
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  #336  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:23 AM
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I and my family are monarchical. For many years in Greece has had a major political corruption and bad politicians, as explained Nikolopoulus. We have seen such corruption as normal because our family economy, our daily life was not affected by this, we have not given much importance to it .The crisis that we are suffering is very serious, owe much money to other countries, investors go of the country, and now our country has to make major changes in administration and public finance, these reforms will require sacrifices for all Greeks. Now , we apreciate that the political corruption that we saw as normal had had its effects on our economy and that was hurting us all(Now but no before) . Now we express against our politicians ( politicians dynasties ) that for many years have done this, have caused this debt, have meant that our investors will leave the country. This is the cause that many people are sympathetic to the monarchy, because for many years, Greek politicians and media have lashed out against the monarchy, and proof of this, is the graveyard of Tatoi. Buried in this cemetery are former heads of state, but the politicians have done everything possible to they were not considered like heads of state.They have done everything possible change the story of Greece, with the objective that the from royal family were saw as foreigners who invaded Greece, and never had popular support, They have denied that the monarchy was who gave the territorial extension to Greece that has today......in conclusion have done everything possible to eliminate the monarchy of the history of greece. the comunist party can not be compared with the monarchy, the Communist Party has had coverage in all the Greek media have their own media and very few Greek media lash out against them. They have representation in the Greek Parliament even some Greek governments have been formed with its support. There can not be compared. I think today in Greece has increased supporters to the ancient kings and their children, .... . I am monarchical and realistic, I think that this people sympathize to the monarchy because it is a means to demonstrate their discontent with the current " political dynasties" . I am a monarchist and I believe in the monarchy I think this could be very beneficial to Greece, because the monarchy can be a great attraction for investment in the country. I see this in other European countries, but this is my opinion
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  #337  
Old 06-02-2011, 12:05 AM
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I agree with you. It would be very adventageous for Greece to become a kingdom again. I have been gone from Greece for many years, I return every second year for 3 or 4 months and still have people in my village that support the monarchy. I live in Australia and we are part of the commonwealth with Queen Elizabeth II as our Head of State. People here young and old have the right to support a monarchy or republic. The vast majority support the monarchy and to tell you whenever there's a royal visit people come out in the thousands. When magazines have a royal feature they all sell out. Greece must let go of this negative attitude and move forward. Some type of movement needs to be pushed to educate people on the benifits of a monarchy.
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  #338  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:02 AM
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I don't want to get political and out of topic here because I don't want the moderators to have to delete posts in this thread once again but I have to say that I don't agree with the posters who believe that Monarchy can change the political climate and the problems of the political system. Greece foes not face internal problems because the country is a presidential parliamentary democracy instead of a crowned parliamentary democracy but because people have problems with the current political parties , the people who form them and their current policies and and programmes. The problems are not in the level of the Head of state , but in the level of the Parliament, therefore I cannot see how a change in level of the Head of state( a returm of the monarchy) would solve them.
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  #339  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:20 AM
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I have expressed my opinion and you expressed yours, I think the figure of the President of the Republic is more than questionable and I'm not the only Greek who thinks so, also there are people loyal to the Republic who criticize this position, including the medium used for your choice.
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  #340  
Old 06-07-2011, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filipposathens
I and my family are monarchical...
EYou have such great pride for your native country of Greece. You stated that are a 'monarchist' and have much faith that hopefully Greece's king will be restored to his throne.
Constantine and his family have only their best interests in mind. Not Greece's or your best interests, but simply for their own interests (=money). Constantine always asks for empathy and sympathy from other royals and his ex-citizens. To him, you would be just a 'face in the crowd.' If Constantine does not have only his family's interests and monetary gain on his radar, why would he want to return to his
native Greece to become king - again? Money does indeed make the world go 'round.'
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