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  #201  
Old 03-09-2010, 04:41 PM
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Spain, Denmark, Belgium, Britain, Sweden, Norway...... are democracies, monarchies and states of the European Union ... The European Union doen´t require form of state.it only require that it is a democracy...
The state of monarchy is not dictatorships.
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  #202  
Old 03-09-2010, 05:17 PM
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Of course the monarchy and dictatorship are not synonumes. Monarchy is a form of government. But here, there have been military coups which, among other , brought back monarchy when the country was a democracy,( Kondilis' coup in 1935 for example). Today , such a coup can't happen , because IMO , apart from other political factors , the EU will not allow the legitimate government of a state -member to be overthrown so easily. But this is of course a purely theoretical conversation , since I doubt that there's is a coup organized behind the scenes or that its primary target (if such a coup ever happened ) would be to bring the King back.

What , in my opinion, is worth noticing, is that the current Contitution is not at all lenient on the matter of the form of government . There is no way, for example, for a free and legitimate referendum to happen and turn Greece again into a Constitutional Monarchy, after following all the proper and legal procedures ( proposing the referendum, making it, the Parliament accepting the results etc). It can't be a legitimate way of bringing them back, the only way would be to abolish by force the whole constitution.
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  #203  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
Here is article 110 of the Constitution of Greece :

Article 110
1. The provisions of the Constitution shall be subject to revision with the exception of those which determine the form of government as a Parliamentary Republic and those of articles 2 paragraph 1, 4 paragraphs 1, 4 and 7 , 5 paragraphs 1 and 3, 13 paragraph 1, and 26.

. The Parliament which has voted the condtitution after the referendum has made made sure that the form of government would not be changed unless if a violent uprising would ever happen . It is legally a crime to try and bring them back into power. The only way for them to reign again would be for the Parliament to " cheat on us " and vote another form of govermnemt (highly unlikely) or for a coup to happen and bring them back (also highly unlikely - after all we are in the EU now). Besides, if anyone ever tried to change those provisions we, the Greeks, have the right and the obligation , given to us by the Constitution, to resist by all possible means against anyone who tries to violently abolish the contitution (the last article of the Constitution) . Does anyone see a legitimate way for them to come to reing in Greece again? Because I can't find one.....
If the Greek Parliament meets and by absolute majority, is required a referendum to extinguish the old constitution, and the referendum wins "Yes", the current constitution would have no validity.... And the article quoted without validity.Non is necessary coup to reform the current Greek Constitution, it can be repealed by a democratically refemdum .... This may be possible in all European States ....... This is a hypothesis
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  #204  
Old 03-12-2010, 09:11 AM
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You are right Beltraneja, I haven't thought of that . Yes, a referendum could abolish the current Constitution and a new one could be created by the National Assembly.. But for this to happen, it must be proven that the current Constitution is dysfinctional in a way, otherwise there is no reason to consider a new one. Besides the Constitution as it is now can be changed and amended without an abolishion. The only articles that cannot be changed are the ones concerning a) the form of the government, b) the equality of Greeks in front of the law c) the fundamental right and liberties of the citizens. So a question has to arise for one of those articles in order to call the people for a referendum. But you are absolutely right, there is a legitimate way.
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  #205  
Old 03-23-2010, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
The only articles that cannot be changed are the ones concerning a) the form of the government, b) the equality of Greeks in front of the law c) the fundamental right and liberties of the citizens. So a question has to arise for one of those articles in order to call the people for a referendum. But you are absolutely right, there is a legitimate way.
Well........ there are a lot of problems in Greece, corruption being the cardinal one. Surely, though, it (corruption, that is) has nothing to do with the polity of Greece but rather with the politicians and the people themselves.
In line with that, we see also Spain with a monarchy and an oustanding monarch that has a lot of corruption, and Italy, a Republic, also heavily corrupt. Therefore, Southern Europe's inherent problems are totally unrelated to the type of polity.
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  #206  
Old 03-23-2010, 05:56 PM
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You're right, the corruption does not depend on the system of government .

It is obvious that corruption is not the cause that could cause repeal of the Constitution.
But it does not prevent it would be possible, serving to all states(Spain, Greece, Italy...), could be a cause the political fragmentation, many political parties that can not form a stable government or a government of a minimum of 4 years.It could be impossible the functioning of a State...the Constitution could be changed.
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  #207  
Old 05-21-2010, 02:36 PM
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You all seem thoughtful persons here and i respect that.Actually i agree with most of you. I don't want to refer to the former Greek Royal Family at all,i'd like instead to say that wether it is possible to change or not completely the current Constitution,Greece should take measures about financial issues such as tax avoidance.Corrupted politicians and tax avoidance destroyed the Greek economy.Beltraneja was right,the corruption does not depend only on the system of government.And lets face it there's no country without corruption,but in this case it is also Greece's citizens fault.As correctly was stated before in this thread Greeks denied their Royal family but gave their blessing for years and years to other powerful political dynasties to convent Greece into a mess.
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  #208  
Old 05-22-2010, 09:10 AM
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I agree with you...The greek policy is constituted of political dynasties, Papandreou. Karamanlis and others ......
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  #209  
Old 05-22-2010, 01:05 PM
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^ Yes..Families like these are the main scourge of Greece which affects us all.
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  #210  
Old 05-23-2010, 04:53 PM
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Not really. It has been the Greek people who, through their vote, have been electing these scoundrels to power for ever. At any rate, I cannot see what relationship there can be between the Greek crisis and a forum about royalty including the Greek former royal family.
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  #211  
Old 05-23-2010, 05:18 PM
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Hello V.K,i agree with what you say about Greeks and it has nothing to do with the former royal family,which i never liked.I read above about the current problems in Greece concerning corruption and wanted to express my opinion.I said that i won't reffer to Glucksburgs at all and that no matter what Constitution says the current situation here has nothing to do with royalty.Maybe i didn't express myself with the best posible way.
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  #212  
Old 05-23-2010, 07:40 PM
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Republicans criticize the monarchy in the forums that talk about the monarchies. Why can not the monarchical criticize to the Republics?
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  #213  
Old 05-24-2010, 07:02 AM
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off course they can,it's a discussion forum after all.i am not against monarchy at all,it is connected with history and wherer i like Glucksburgs* or not i wanted to continue the discussion by saying that the problems mentioned above concerning corruption nowdays have nothing to do with the former royal family.but maybe i didn't placed it well.

*to return to the topic,i think that their blood is as blue as it gets having 100% royal roots,and honestly i find Anna Maria sensitive and her children down to earth but royalty was firstly introduced to Greece under weird and difficult political circumstances so they never gained acceptance and respect from the majority of Greeks.like many others here i do believe that it is impossible to restore monarchy in Greece,but they spend time in Greece from times to times so i wouldn't be that susprised if they chose to relocate back here.
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  #214  
Old 05-24-2010, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kastalia View Post
like many others here i do believe that it is impossible to restore monarchy in Greece,but they spend time in Greece from times to times so i wouldn't be that susprised if they chose to relocate back here.
I don't thing this could happen easily , at least not for the whole family. Pavlos and Marie Chantal have a well settled life in the UK and I doubt they fell the need to move here - it would most probably just mess their balances. As for the King and the Queen - I don't think he really wants to return here, because to me it seems that he can't really accept what happened . To me, it seems that he is content living abroad, as an exiled Head of State who lost his place, interacting often with his peers, who treat him as a royal .But if he ever came back, he would have to face a considerable indefference towards his face, and he would lose his circle, not to mention that he would not be trated in a special way by most people.
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  #215  
Old 05-24-2010, 05:44 PM
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He lives in abroad because he is free to live wherever he wants.. The King of Greece does not receive treatment abroad as head of state, attending royal weddings because It was always thus , he represents a House royal is or is not on the throne.The second in the Greek Royal Family are aware that they are not wanted in Greece, Princess Alexia said in an interview Vanity Fair Spain, She said that she felt that Greece was her home, but she was aware that the people of Greece does not want to them.
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  #216  
Old 05-27-2010, 07:20 AM
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it is true , she said it, in the interview of passed month of the Vanitty Fair
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  #217  
Old 05-28-2010, 01:15 PM
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All I can say regarding the above posts is that thank God, no Greek can blame the royal family for the current mess.
Although the King and Queen and their children summer in Porto Heli and visit throughout the year, the truth is that they have established their home elsewhere and as much as they love Greece, they should consider themselves lucky they cannot be connected to any of the scandals that turned our dear country into the world's laughingstock.
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  #218  
Old 05-28-2010, 02:15 PM
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I agree Odette.They have nothing to do with all this mess here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
the scandals that turned our dear country into the world's laughingstock.
that hurted..sad but true.
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  #219  
Old 05-28-2010, 04:19 PM
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the crisis will make some politicians go home. but it won't change the constitution. this is science fiction scenarios, let's not be so extreme. the democracy is so stable here and nobody should doubt. have you seen many countries with more stable democracy than greece? only very few and we are among these countries for sure.

this royal family was imposed to us by the great powers. they are something totally strange for the greeks. what is so difficult to understand? i know the monarchy lasted about 150 years in our country and the democracy only 36 years, but it's closer to our mentality and hearts. this is what we are. we can't bow in front of nobody or call him "Your Highness" or "Your Majesty", like we are inferior to him. it's impossible, either you like it or not. i don't want to talk about the human rights that were completely unknown when the glucksburgs reigned here, because i'll open a huge conversations and it's irrelevant right now.

gregory
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  #220  
Old 05-28-2010, 05:23 PM
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No matter how interesting it would be for someone to see former monarchies become monarchies again, monarchy is the right type of government only if the citizens believe it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRspecialforces View Post
the crisis will make some politicians go home. but it won't change the constitution. this is science fiction scenarios, let's not be so extreme. the democracy is so stable here and nobody should doubt. have you seen many countries with more stable democracy than greece? only very few and we are among these countries for sure.

with respect,
gregory
You are aware that monarchy is not the opposite of democracy, right? Democracy is very much stable in the United Kingdom, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, etc, isn't it? Not to mention that there was no democracy in Spain until the restoration of monarchy in 1975!

Quote:
In this century that kind of government is simply useless and even in countries that have a monarchy there is hatred and criticism towards it.
The first statement is a personal opinion (which I don't support) so I won't comment a lot. The second is as true as is saying that there are citizens of republics who hate and criticize that type of government.
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