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  #181  
Old 09-24-2009, 03:30 PM
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When Papandreou the eldest was orating from the balconies about whether the King should reign or rule. When the King had to be returned from his honeymoon to settle a dispute between Papandreou the eldest and Queen Frederika the media was not the culprit. Politicians did a fantastic job agitating the electorate.
Unfortunately since the independence of the country we imported Kings from Bavaria and Denmark and unfortunately again, regardless of what these monarchs accomplished it was always viewed with suspicion and hostility. Since independence we managed to send to exile, shoot dead or have them killed all but one King. We were too busy with Queen Frederika to blame King Pavlos for anything.
The issue with the current King (IMHO) is that Constantine was too young to take over the throne, Queen Frederika was a thorn on the politicians' side and the political situation was such that precipitated the rise of the Junta. The unfortunate King was
caught in the middle and the only way out was to leave the country.
Since the referendum, the family has conducted itself in an admirable manner and probably they prefer it the way it is.
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  #182  
Old 09-25-2009, 01:55 PM
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You are absolutely right, Odette, as to the role of the politicians. I'm sorry to say they have changed only for the worse ever since.
As to the press, I wasn't referring to the journalists, of course they were doing their job, I meant the owners of the Greek Media who have played (and still do so) a controversial part in our political everyday life, manipulating public opinion...
The late Queen was certainly too dynamic for a woman (and a Queen) back in the '50s-'60s in Greece. Most Greeks think so and I have to accept it, I was born in 1963, so I barely remember the Royal Family, but I remember very well the referendum of 1974, the way the press treated Constantine then and for some time, presenting him as the one and only to person blame for the Junta etc. Until the '90s they were almost unknown to the Greeks, at least those born after '67. They were also a taboo subject, as you probably know.
I have come to the conclusion that we are still rather "politically immature" and this is rather obvious in the present situation we are facing, with the upcoming elections and so on.
Political families rule (or should I say reign?) alternatively and their "heirs" will probably do so for long. I really wish the electorate took up their own responsibility. As for the family, I agree with you, they faced it all with remarkable dignity!
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  #183  
Old 09-25-2009, 03:28 PM
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The media are the fourth estate they control public opinion and politicians control the media by this cause.I have a greek friend and he always told to me that for be politician in Greece only needs be member of a family, Papandreu, Karamanlis, Misotakis, .....

I makes me very sad to see the cemetery in Tatoi, this appears to be abandoned, it seems to be forgotten in my maps ... I sorry to see it,because the kings buried there were heads of state, they are part of Greece's history and yet seems to be forgotten, is like that had not existed ..and I think that the politicians are guilty of this , they have created a kind of denial of that part of history as if this was a mechanism of defense of the republic, I think this is a mistake, monarchy was part of the history of Greece
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  #184  
Old 09-26-2009, 04:32 AM
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Your Greek friend is SO right, Beltraneja!
These three families have been "producing" Prime Ministers for Greece in the last 50 years (with a 7-year Junta interval) and there are also some other families "producing" Ministers and Members of the Parliament etc.
And yes, it is sad to deny one's history, we can't just close our eyes and pretend those Kings never existed, they were there, they were Heads of our State and for that reason they deserve to be respected (and this applies not only to the dead but also to Constantine and his family).
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  #185  
Old 09-26-2009, 03:28 PM
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I have lived during the times Greece was a Kingdom and during the Junta years and the referendum.
It always amazed me how the politicians' manipulate the events and the
attitude of those who believe they know what happenned and who is to be blamed for all the ills. Anyone who lived in Athens the night the referendum results were in, knows what I am refering to.
I agree a lot of people still blame K Constantine for the rise of the Junta, as they blame his grandfather for the Smyrna destruction and Q Frederika for the import duty on cars, among other things..
It is deplorable that monuments such as Tatoi and the graves are left to ruin and part of our history whether we like it or not is swept under the carpet and became taboo.
Still even I who love the GRF still believe the institution of Monarchy for us is past.
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  #186  
Old 09-27-2009, 03:05 PM
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But of course it is past, dear Odette, you are absolutely right and I like the GRF as much as you do.
I don't have any memories of the referendum, I was 11 at the time, other than my godfather inviting my father to a "bitter coffee" the following morning. My father voted for monarchy while my godfather voted against as you have probably guessed. And that was it.
Greece has come a long way since then, our worries certainly don't include the restoration of monarchy, but I believe that in our history we can find the answer for many of our present problems, that is why I would really like to know more about those days.
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  #187  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:05 AM
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Iakynthi probably has no idea of Democracy. Th kind of Democracy that she is referring to, has no relevance with the nowadays Democracy. The ancient Democracy included slaves, remember?
And don't forget that when we speak about Monarchy, we are speaking about contemporary Monarchy, Parliamentary and Democratic!
Of course there in no possibility of restoration, but not because Greeks don't like Constantine. But because we have many other ..."Democratic" Royal Families in Greece, with heirs and "princes".
And "California Dreaming", talking about "no real blood" for a family that reigned for 105 years in Greece, is the most racist think to do, and ironic too, specially in your multinational USA...
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  #188  
Old 09-28-2009, 08:59 AM
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I agree that there is no chance of restoring monarch now in greece.Despite that, i think that these people are very 'useful' to greece.When i say 'useful' i mean that they can still offer a lot to the country,just by using their status.At the same time they can benefit themselves and become a unique ''selling point'' for their country.Our governments and politicians could look at their abilities and put them to best use.
Theodora,is actress,likes theatre=lets invite her to play in Epidauros or other theatre and by that way advertise greek theatre.
Marie-chantal is good in trade,business=invite her to the athens fashion week or any other significant show=a few pictures in foreigh press wouldn't harm greek fashion.Make it easy for people to come and open shops or manufacturing units here.Wouldn't it be nice to look inside m-c clothes's and see the label ''made in greece''?
Irene is a pianist=come and give a concert in greece(more advert for classical music and concert halls).
Constantine is gold medalist in sailing=give him a prominent position in greek sailing.
That can bring more young people close to that sport and of course the chances of more olympic medals increase.
The same applies to the other members or GRF and to many other greeks that go to waste.
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  #189  
Old 09-28-2009, 05:19 PM
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And does Niko's wedding in Athens?? This would fill Athens hotels, members of the royal houses, journalists , the followers of the royal houses, tourists.
the before day of the wedding the members of royal Houses could visit the acropolis and museum ...it would be a good promotion of Greece.
looking from outside the political structure of Greece, it's awesome..it's like if the greek political parties were owned of one families
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  #190  
Old 09-29-2009, 01:46 PM
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Goodness, Ellinotati. The royal family could be a uniting symbol to unite all Greeks regardless of political party affiliation. They could but were not allowed.
However the thought alone that they could be put to "good use" playing in theaters and getting involved in retail, makes me shudder. If MC wants to manufacture her clothes in Greece nothing would stop her from doing so now. Actually it is a great idea and she could take the first step by doing so.
However, the King and the Queen can never play a role other than what they were born and destined to be and alas were denied.
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  #191  
Old 10-03-2009, 12:28 PM
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Guys, a reminder that posts about the current Greek elections will be removed unless they have specific relevance to the position of the King or Royal Family.

thanks,
Warren
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  #192  
Old 02-15-2010, 05:50 PM
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Attitudes to restoration

I really don't think that there are any chances for a restoration of the monarchy in Greece. And I have the feeling that even Greek royalists know this and that's why they dont' pressure the government (for another referendum let's say) because they know nowadays the reality and they probably supsect that the numbers would be against them.
Let's take me for example. I am a young girl, university student and up until I went to high school I knew nothing specific about the kings. I knew that the ex king existed and that there were kings before him in Greece and I would respond to anyone who would ask me " otto to start, and then a danish one , and paul who was married to frederika and another before him( who was he?) and I hae also heard from my grandma a romantic story about another king to died from a monkey's bite . OH, and didn't one clash with a prime minister?" that was what I would report a few years ago if you asked me about them and I learned about who exactly was each one of them when during my high school years I developped a passion for Greek Modern History and royals make a part of it, so I just learned them. Not to mention that up until them I didnt't konw even the names of the other Greek royals ( I am reffering to the siblings and cousins of each reigning king. So school here focuses very little on them, just to what is absolutely necessary.
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  #193  
Old 02-15-2010, 06:29 PM
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From my family members concerning monarchy , I ve only heard about how irresponsible Constantine was and how his action helped the military make a coup and about his mother I ve heard characterisations that if I ever deared write them here in the actual words they were told, I guess I ll be banned for the language
From older people I ve even heard that " the junta was awfull, but at least did two good things in this country: made better roads and abolished the monarchy"
When it comes to my friends (and people of my generation in general I believe)who don't hold any political grudges of the past, no one really cares if Constantine lives or not in Greece or whether he is deprived of his citizenship .I once asked my friends whether they would like the monarchy to return and I recieved these exact answers:
" there is absolutely nothing wrong with a presidential democracy, why change it"
" we have more important issuses to deal with in this country, why should we consider another referendum"
" all royals are costly and useless"
" we are already feeding too many corrupted politicians in this country, we can't have to feed on top of that a bunch of people for just smiling and waving hands "
" yes, can you imagine having to pay for all the children and the grandchildren the Ex King has? and the youngest ones arent' even married yet " ( this one aswered to the person who made the previous comment)
" what, having Marie Chantal as a queen one day ? Please"
" I would like them to return , royalty is so glamorous"
" In some countries royalty is a part of their history as a nation. Here, we don't have any use for them" .
I personally would never vote in favour on a monarchy back here. It's not that I hate them or dislike them . When it comes to me , the whole family could decide tomorrow to move in Greece and I wouldn't mind because I really don't think their presence here will cause any problem to our political system But I strongly believe that history has shown that Monarchy and Greece are far better while divorced and why should after all the head of state of Greece be in that place because he inherited it from his father or mother? And since I tend to believe that I share this last opinion with most of the other Greeks of my age, I really don't see the monarchy coming back in this country.
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  #194  
Old 02-18-2010, 01:04 PM
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Your statements about how the younger generation perceives the monarchy and the spicific individuals are correct.
Another way to look at things is that most presidents since the transition (1974) were good to very good to excellent in conducting state affairs. The only exception was Sartzetakis but, as soon as the people perceived that, his term was not renewed.
The morale here is that it is easy to get rid of a bad president. Getting rid of a bad or incompetent monarch is hard.
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  #195  
Old 02-19-2010, 03:23 PM
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It seems difficult restore the monarchy in Greece.
Constantino and Anne Marie have a good position in most royal houses because their siblings belongs reigning houses.
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  #196  
Old 03-09-2010, 05:55 AM
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yes Martha, it is impossible. our constitution is clear about that. now if this family wants to keep their titles outside greece, then it's fine. you can say Anna Maria is still a princess in denmark, she can keep her royal status.

Beltraneja, allow me to disagree here. a promotion of Greece? our country doesn't need any more promotion. and what would be better than the olympics, the good weather, the islands or our culture, with many many monuments and museums? a wedding of a son of the ex-king wouldn't add anything more to the country's fame.

with respect,
gregory
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  #197  
Old 03-09-2010, 09:59 AM
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The truth is that Greece it is now known in Europe as the first featured members of the European which has asked be economic ransom by European Union, notably Germany and France because their debts are most than her income ... I think the wedding in Greece is very good .. is money ... but my personal opinion that marriage should be held in London, because it would be brighter
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  #198  
Old 03-09-2010, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRspecialforces View Post
yes Martha, it is impossible. our constitution is clear about that.
Here is article 110 of the Constitution of Greece :

Article 110
1. The provisions of the Constitution shall be subject to revision with the exception of those which determine the form of government as a Parliamentary Republic and those of articles 2 paragraph 1, 4 paragraphs 1, 4 and 7 , 5 paragraphs 1 and 3, 13 paragraph 1, and 26.

. The Parliament which has voted the condtitution after the referendum has made made sure that the form of government would not be changed unless if a violent uprising would ever happen . It is legally a crime to try and bring them back into power. The only way for them to reign again would be for the Parliament to " cheat on us " and vote another form of govermnemt (highly unlikely) or for a coup to happen and bring them back (also highly unlikely - after all we are in the EU now). Besides, if anyone ever tried to change those provisions we, the Greeks, have the right and the obligation , given to us by the Constitution, to resist by all possible means against anyone who tries to violently abolish the contitution (the last article of the Constitution) . Does anyone see a legitimate way for them to come to reing in Greece again? Because I can't find one.....
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  #199  
Old 03-09-2010, 11:46 AM
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I think that no one in his/her right mind would like to assume the position of governing Greece. Furthermore, it would be fair to presume that the Greek royal family has moved on with their lives and have no desire to usurp the power from the politicians.
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  #200  
Old 03-09-2010, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
Here is article 110 of the Constitution of Greece :

Article 110
1. The provisions of the Constitution shall be subject to revision with the exception of those which determine the form of government as a Parliamentary Republic and those of articles 2 paragraph 1, 4 paragraphs 1, 4 and 7 , 5 paragraphs 1 and 3, 13 paragraph 1, and 26.

. The Parliament which has voted the condtitution after the referendum was made made sure that the form of government would not be changed unless if a violent uprising would ever happen . It is legally a crime to try and bring them back into power. The only way for them to reign again would be for the Parliament to " cheat on us " and vote another form of govermnemt (highly unlikely) or for a coup to happen and bring them back (also highly unlikely - after all we are in the EU now). Besides, if anyone ever tried to change those provisions we, the Greeks, have the right and the obligation , given to us by the Constitution, to resist by all possible means against anyone who tries to violently abolish the contitution (the last article of the Constitution) . Does anyone see a legitimate way for them to come to reing in Greece again? Because I can't find one.....

thank you for bringing this up, much appreciated! and you are right, we Greeks do not count at all? people who believe this are funny and completely ridiculous. we will fight until our last drop of blood. the democracy and our devotion to the european union give us enough reasons, i think!

greets,
gregory
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