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  #281  
Old 01-15-2013, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA View Post
The word democracy was born in Greece, but not democracy. In ancient Greece, there was slavery, and the woman was regarded as an object, she had no opinion and could not participated in public affairs.
Hi Beltraneja! I saw your post just now and thus I apologise for the late reply. I will go off topic, but I really need to clarify a few points. A common mistake is to judge these ancient times through a Christian prism. It is not your fault, 90% of what is written about ancient Greece and its values is filtered through a Christian angle, unfortunately. It is sad that most academicians were/are not able to approach that era sufficiently and with an open-mind. Friedrich Nietzsche was a brilliant exception and also Goethe has some great hints in his work, AFAIK.

That being said, I have to emphasize a few points here: 'Slavery' in A.G. was a complicated matter. Their status even differed from city-state to city-state, thus I'm not going to elaborate on this. I will only point out that the Greek lords did not treat their slaves badly or unfairly, they did not punish them, they did not torture them and a slave had the right to take his lord to the court if he felt that he was treated unfairly. Perhaps we shouldn't even call it 'slavery', these people were rather servants and were treated with respect in most cases. An example could be the pedagogue, a slave that held a special position, who accompanied his lord's son(s) to the school, back and forth. The pedagogue had the right to advise and even admonish the children or hit them occasionally with the pandybat he was carrying. As you can see, 'slavery' in A.G. had nothing to do with slavery in other parts of the ancient world or in medieval Europe or in the US.

Regarding the position of women, your wording alone indicates confusion. The word 'object' came up in history during the prevalence of christianity in Europe ('res' in Latin). In Athens and other cities, women were seen as the Ladies of the House. It was a cultural thing, in other words. Their priorities and business were different than those of the men, they cared about their household, their children and themselves (their appearance, for example). Women really shouldn't worry about anything else. Once again, they were NOT treated badly by their men, but with full respect as spouses and mothers of their children. They could appear in public, but accompanied by men, usually by an important slave, like the pedagogue. Propriety and modesty were the keys. In Sparta women were free to exercise and even participate in some public affairs. Again, their status differed from city-state to city-state.

I will even dare say that, if the ancient Greek values were thoroughly understood and finally prevailed upon Europe against the Christian dogma and values, we would never reach such a sad point. One can find hundreds of historical books on these matters out there, but not all of the authors have captured the quintessence of the ancient Greek world, their notion and values.

Regarding the restoration of the monarchy in modern Greece, this is out of the question, as I had said. I will only state that I agree with the posters above, and particularly with NotHRH and Artemisia.
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  #282  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:50 PM
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Is Greece the Last European Country to date to abolish it monarchy in Europe?

Also to reply to what someone said on the first page, It is sad to see when it a Country loses it monarchy and the Family loses the throne but it depends on the country and why it being abolished.

Some countries are better without it.
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  #283  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hrhcp View Post
Its too bad that power tripping is so divisive. In a modern monarchy, there is a recognition that the exercise of power for longterm stability should be a muted expression.

I would like to know what circumstances exactly brought about the downfall of the current ex-king.

It seems that the first king (of Danish origin) knew his leadership was of a tenuous nature, and went to great lengths to learn about his new country, and had an outstandingly successful result. His reign seems to have run into problems, because he was shot. Why ?
The King of the Hellenes sworn in militants to government as his ministers and prime-minister, after a coup d'etat, having as a result many men to be excilled to dry islands and be made to suffer torture for their own values. The notorious dictator proclaimed himself "President of the Republic" after the King had been scared off into excille. The downfall of the junta concluded a referendum on keeping of the monarchy which failed.
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  #284  
Old 01-29-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Given the economic turmoil that Greece is in I believe a restoration of the Monarchy in Greece is far from the thoughts of the ordinary citizens!

A restoration of the Greek Monarchy is about as likely as the Irish Republic becoming one.
The thing is that,for most Greeks, the decades after 1974 have been the best years Greece has ever seen (this has of course stopped now but that's a very long and painful discussion ). And I am not just talking about money here - political stability was established , society became more free and open minded and less judging, the immigration declined etc. In short , Monarchy on the other hand , is considered as part of " the pre-1974 Greece " history, which is viewed as a "worse Greece" than the one we have today. Restoration is more or less considered as turning back the clock to worse days even by Greeks who do not have strong feelings for the royals.
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  #285  
Old 08-23-2014, 04:26 PM
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http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KZlDcyrzUY...0/scan0005.jpg

The 100th anniversary of the Greek Monarchy
Back row: Prince Peter of Greece, Princess Alice of Greece, Berthold, Margrave of Baden, Crown Prince Harald of Norway, Princess Sophie of Greece, King Paul of the Hellenes, King Frederik IX of Denmark, Princess Anne Marie of Denmark, Crown Prince Constantine of the Hellenes, Crown Princess Margrethe of Denmark, Prince Georg Wilhelm of Hanover, Prince Michael of Greece
Middle row: Margarita Princess of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, Princess Eugenie of Greece, Princess Irene, Duchess of Aosta, Princess Paul of Yugoslavia (Olga of Greece), Queen Frederika of the Hellenes, Queen Ingrid of Denmark, Queen Helen of Romania, Lady Katherine Brandram (Princess Katherine of Greece), Princess Theodora, Markgravine of Baden, Princess Georg Wilhelm of Hanover (Sophie)
Front row: Prince Ludwig of Baden, Prince George Andrew Radziwill, Princess Tatiana Radziwill, Count Hans Toerring-Jettenbach, Princess Irene of Greece, Prince Karl of Hesse, Princess Benedikte of Denmark, Prince Max of Baden (this photo appeared in The Inheritors of Alexander the Great. The original photo was provided by Princess Tatiana, who also provided the key.)

The Greek and Danish royal families gather to celebrate the cententary of the Greek monarchy in 1963.
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  #286  
Old 08-23-2014, 04:46 PM
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Great Thanks for this picture !
Was the King of Greece already ill ?
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  #287  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Great Thanks for this picture !
Was the King of Greece already ill ?


Well, he was definitely not fine. But nobody could have foreseen his death within a year!
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  #288  
Old 08-24-2014, 07:56 AM
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The monarchy in Greece has no any future. After WWII no any West-European state has been so failed, so shaken on its' foundations as Greece since 2008, going totally bankrupt thanks to an unbelievable mismanagement, nepotism, corruptism, neglect and with a circle of kleptocrat families ruling the country in total disorder.

Still, despite the total fail of the country and the extreme tumbledown in progress, development and wealth, there are no any calls for another system, for a modernization of the state, for a modern Scandinavian-style monarchy. No any voice. If even Greece, in the deepest turmoil since WWII, has no any appeal for the return of the monarchy, then it will never happen again. The momentum has totally gone.

At the same time I must say that King Constantine and his family have done nothing at all to encourage support for the monarchy. I miss the zest, the commitment, the willpower. Where in Portugal and Romania the Duke of Bragança resp. King Mihai enjoy a semi-official status and where in Bulgaria the former King even became Prime Minister...., and where even in mighty Russia Maria Vladimirovna has a semi-official status: in Greece nothing of all this. So the answer on the Mother-Of-All-Questions: Will Greece ever be a monarchy again? is: no. Constantine has lost his own throne, also by his own poor handling of situations and he is not able to keep his interests on the foreground. His children seem not intersted at all. That is my personal impression.
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  #289  
Old 08-24-2015, 06:32 PM
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I wish Greece to restore its monarchy. I know it's hard it happen.
I think the Greeks should consider alternatives to improve their situation, and King Constantine should have a greater role in Greece, rarely appears ...
Does the Greek Royal Family, including kings and princes heirs are interested in a possible restoration of the monarchy?
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  #290  
Old 12-27-2015, 06:15 AM
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Why was the monarchy abolished?
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  #291  
Old 12-27-2015, 06:22 AM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Royal_Family
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  #292  
Old 12-27-2015, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RoyaltyPortuguese View Post
I wish Greece to restore its monarchy. I know it's hard it happen.
I think the Greeks should consider alternatives to improve their situation, and King Constantine should have a greater role in Greece, rarely appears ...
Does the Greek Royal Family, including kings and princes heirs are interested in a possible restoration of the monarchy?
I have seen facebook posts dedicated to nice jewels and in some of them Queen Frederika (the mother of King Constantine of the Hellenes and Queen Sofía of Spain) featured. Jesus... a flood of negative comments and vitriol came from mainly Greek posters....



So forget any restoration of the Greek monarchy. Even in the darkest hours of Greece, the nation to a standstill, on the verge of a bankruptcy and with hopeless incompetent politicians, there was no any, not the smallest, call for a monarchy.
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  #293  
Old 12-27-2015, 08:52 AM
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I wonder if the lack of any future restoration of the monarchy in Greece is due to it being so relatively 'new' and made up from the first King who was a Bavarian Prince 'elected' King due to his fathers support to Greece in its fight for independence.
Compared to many other monarchies 140 years isn't that long and a RF made up of largely foreign royals isn't something that many people probably feel able to support.
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  #294  
Old 12-27-2015, 09:10 AM
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Well, to a certain extent all monarchies have wed foreigners, making the royal family looking foreign. Look at the Nassau family in the Netherlands. Since their entry in the Netherlands in 1403 only Anne d'Egmont (first spouse of Willem I of Nassau), Henriëtte d'Oultremont de Wégimont (second spouse of the already abdicated Willem I of the Netherlands) were the exceptions on marrying foreigners until Pieter van Vollenhoven in 1967. Greece was not different in that. Even in Britain the royal family is often depicted as "a bunch of Germans"...
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  #295  
Old 12-27-2015, 09:23 AM
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True but I think there is a difference between marrying foreigners and starting a new monarchy by bringing in a foreign prince and calling him King of Greece. Constantine marrying a Danish Princess is not, IMO, an issue, the real issue is the first King of Greece being a completely foreign prince bought in to rule over another country.
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  #296  
Old 12-27-2015, 09:23 AM
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My Greek friends loathe the very memory of Queen Frederika, whose meddling in politics cost her son, and his throne very dear.
They also have little time for King Constantine 'the weak' , contrasting his failure to stand up to the 'Generals', [most unfavourably] with the conduct of his brother-in-law of Spain, in similar circumstance.
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  #297  
Old 12-27-2015, 09:23 AM
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The Monarchy in Greece

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Well, to a certain extent all monarchies have wed foreigners, making the royal family looking foreign. Look at the Nassau family in the Netherlands. Since their entry in the Netherlands in 1403 only Anne d'Egmont (first spouse of Willem I of Nassau), Henriëtte d'Oultremont de Wégimont (second spouse of the already abdicated Willem I of the Netherlands) were the exceptions on marrying foreigners until Pieter van Vollenhoven in 1967. Greece was not different in that. Even in Britain the royal family is often depicted as "a bunch of Germans"...

In Sweden, Victoria marrying Daniel was the first time a main-line member of the Royal family married a Swede (and kept their Royal status) since Johan III married Gunilla Bielke in 1584 and in Denmark it hasn't happened since the 1800s when the tangled web that was the House of Oldenburg and its Augustenborg and Glücksborg branches frequently intermarried with each other.


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  #298  
Old 12-27-2015, 09:50 AM
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Interesting...all them (Victoria, Maddie, Carl Phillip) married commoners...2 Swedes and 1 dual citizenship (American and I think England).

I think that will become more and more the norm. I doubt we will see 2 royals/ruling families marry each other again for a long time.

LaRae
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  #299  
Old 12-27-2015, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Interesting...all them (Victoria, Maddie, Carl Phillip) married commoners...2 Swedes and 1 dual citizenship (American and I think England).

I think that will become more and more the norm. I doubt we will see 2 royals/ruling families marry each other again for a long time.

LaRae

It is the norm - the only current European heir that married another Royal is Alois of Liechtenstein while the current heirs to the thrones of UK & Luxembourg both married ladies from the higher nobility. Looking at the current heads of state we see that only in the UK is the spouse of the monarch a fellow Royal while the monarchs of Belgium, Liechtenstein & Denmark all married someone from the nobility (although Prince Henric's noble title proved to be of a somewhat dubious origin).


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  #300  
Old 12-27-2015, 11:31 AM
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With the note that Stéphanie de Lannoy comes from an old and prestigious family. It is not only about titles: one has to look beyond. Already in the 14th C the De Lannoys belonged to the highest nobility and 16 of them have become a Knight in the Order of the Golden Fleece. Amongst the royal families one has to look hard for a royal dynasty with the same number of Knights...

Emperor Charles V made them Reichsgrafen in 1526. As the De Lannoys have received their Letters Patent from the Emperor himself, they belong to what is called the "gefürstete Grafen" and so considered to belong to the Hochadel. Stéphanie is not "just" the Countess-next-door...

The Nassau - De Lannoy wedding in 2012 was not unique as already in 1551 Willem I of Nassau, Prince of Orange married Anne d'Egmont and so became a son-in-law to Françoise de Lannoy, at that moment probably the wealthiest lady in the whole of the Low Countries being the Dowager Countess d'Egmont.
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