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  #261  
Old 07-13-2012, 03:43 AM
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I'm guessing that the greek people are being lied about what monarchy means. A constitutional monarchy is by far better than any republic, a more stable system, from any point of view.
I find it odd that the greek Constitution speaks in an article that the form of government cannot be changed, it's just like in the romanian Constitution. Only that here in Romania we had more than 40 years of communism, this could be an explanation. But Greece had been protected by the britains after the war, in the famous deal between the great powers (10% soviet influence in Greece, 90% in Romania). It seems that being saved from the communism didn't save them from all the monarchy-fobia of the corrupt politicians.
According to my oppinion, the republic is the "heaven of the politicians", especially the most corrupt of them.

I wonder though, what would happen if in a popular, national referendum, the majority of people would vote for the change of the form of government, fot the restoration of the monarchy? How can a constitutional article stand against the will of the people?
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  #262  
Old 07-13-2012, 04:33 AM
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Given the economic turmoil that Greece is in I believe a restoration of the Monarchy in Greece is far from the thoughts of the ordinary citizens!

A restoration of the Greek Monarchy is about as likely as the Irish Republic becoming one.
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  #263  
Old 07-13-2012, 04:44 AM
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Why should non-Greeks "mind their own business" about domestic politics in the Hellenic Republic? KBoussemart was not being rude, so I think offence is a bit of an over reaction to what is nothing more than a difference of opinion. I have lots of opinions about all sorts of countries all around the world. So does, no doubt, virtually everybody else on the planet who takes an interest in the world beyond their national borders. Sharing them on a forum seems, to me, the most natural thing. Keeping quite would make these forums incredibly dull indeed. As for Greece, I think it is great pity that King Constantine lost his throne, and I will say so whether or not it offends a Greek citizen.
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  #264  
Old 07-13-2012, 08:18 AM
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Having lived in Greece for some time, I can confirm that the majority of the Greek people - in fact, every single Greek I met - never considered a restoration.

The Greek Monarchy is something very remote and alien to the people of the country; they view King Constantine and his family as complete strangers with no ties to the country whatsoever. I do not speak for all Greeks, of course; that's merely the impression I got during my stay.
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  #265  
Old 07-13-2012, 09:50 AM
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Whilst I'd like to see Constantine restored, I think he'd be an absolute fool to take the job in the very very unlikely event that it was offered to him. The Greek monarchy has always been unstable. So he might get to live as King for the rest of his life but then they kick out Pavlos? The whole idea of monarchy in Greece just doesn't seem to work.
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  #266  
Old 07-13-2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by KBoussemart View Post
I fully support the restoration of the monarchy in Greece! King Constantine II has always acted nobly, with integrity and in the best interests for the Greek People. The military junta and political leaders since that time have always acted selfishly and have brought about the financial crisis. Even if he were to return as a ceremonial head of state like the Swedish King, with no political power, he could be a strong cohesive force for national unity at this time in the Greece of the 21st Century. What Greece needs now is a political leader who will create a platform that includes the call for a return to the monarchy. A political movement is what is needed. The integrity of the King and his family could do so much more good in Greece. Let's work for and support this movement!
Are you Greek? I know a lot of Greek immigrants and they dislike the royal family a lot. Mainly because the family is not even Greek. Not saying that's a good reason to not like someone but that's how it is among the people I've met.

At this point it would be like the United States saying that since we once had a king let's get ourselves another one. Except let's get someone who is from a different culture with no ties to our own who doesn't even speak our language(which is essentially what happened when the royal family was first chosen).
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  #267  
Old 07-13-2012, 10:37 AM
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I agree any restoration is unlikely, rather like political and economic stability in the nation has historically been.

As for Constantine and his family not being Greek after 150 years, that does seem like a rather childish argument, but if that is what the Greeks and their government believe then perhaps in this Olympic season they should ask the IOC to reclassify his Olympic gold medal as belonging to Denmark and not Greece.
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  #268  
Old 07-13-2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlaha Karatsokaros View Post
...non-Greek citizens are kindly advised to mind their business, that is, the internal affairs of their own countries.
I find the remarks of KBoussemart above quite offensive actually!
Oh please, TRF has an international membership and we encourage discussion and debate of royal-related topics across the board.
What is more offensive is the lack of grace and futile attempt to restrict participation in these threads.

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  #269  
Old 07-16-2012, 01:43 PM
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To me it's clear: if the actual greek citizens reject the idea of monarchy, it's because they are being lied about it. They are being manipulated in this direction, due to insufficient historical knowledge, about what monarchy for their country meant and about how beloved were their former kings, by their ancestors. Only if we take a look at the situation from a hundred years ago, it's enough to see how popular monarchy in Greece was.
I don't know what to say, for me things are crystal clear regarding monarchy as a system and I really can't understand how can one be influenced from the various types of propaganda.
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  #270  
Old 07-16-2012, 01:51 PM
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I think if someone found an authentic heir of one of the Ancient Greek Kingdoms, restoration might have had a chance. Their former Kings (some of them, at least), might have been beloved, then again those kings don't have anything to do with this house, do they? Not even remotely.

The problem with King Constantine's house is that when they were installed in Greece, no one asked their opinion - and the people simply did not accept the royal family as "their" royal family.

Just what historical significance, what connection are the Greek people supposed to feel to this house? Why should they even think of restoration, especially now, when the country faces far more prevailing and important problems? And what should there be a restoration at all? Personally, I am a supporter of current constitutional monarchies, but that's most definitely not the only system that works. Just how would restoration in Greece help solving any of the problems the country is facing?
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  #271  
Old 07-16-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I agree any restoration is unlikely, rather like political and economic stability in the nation has historically been.

As for Constantine and his family not being Greek after 150 years, that does seem like a rather childish argument, but if that is what the Greeks and their government believe then perhaps in this Olympic season they should ask the IOC to reclassify his Olympic gold medal as belonging to Denmark and not Greece.
Well they're not ethnically Greek and no amount of time can change that. To call some Greek people's opinions on this childish just because they don't agree with your opinions is a poor way to debate the issue. I was just stating what Greek immigrant friends have told me. And guess what, they probably don't care about his medal either. Because you know they're just childish like that.
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  #272  
Old 07-16-2012, 02:38 PM
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Well if your family had lived in a country for 150 years don't you think you have the right to call yourself a citizen of that country and to feel a part of the country where you were born and raised and educated?

As for his medal, while I was beiing sarcastic, the "Greeks" certainly seemed proud enough of the accomplishment in 1960 and none of them seem to have being denying his Greekness back then.
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  #273  
Old 07-16-2012, 02:41 PM
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I think with that way of reasoning very few royals would be left to rule. I think the first anscestor of the Queen of the Netherlands who was Dutch was Johanna van Polanen (1392-1445).
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  #274  
Old 07-16-2012, 02:45 PM
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But the difference is, the Dutch, British, Swedish people accept and largely love their royal families, whatever their ancestry. Greek people do not.
They don't want restoration, there is absolutely no movement behind it, and the royals are simply not popular.

Now, Monarchies in Serbia, Romania, Montenegro - they could be restored because the (former) royals do have presence in and support of the country. Greek one though, there is about as much chance as United States deciding to tear up Declaration of Independence and becoming British colony again.
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  #275  
Old 07-16-2012, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
Why should they even think of restoration, especially now, when the country faces far more prevailing and important problems? And what should there be a restoration at all? Personally, I am a supporter of current constitutional monarchies, but that's most definitely not the only system that works. Just how would restoration in Greece help solving any of the problems the country is facing?
That's exactly the core of the issue! It's exactly what politicians in the east-european republican countries want for the people to think or to believe. There are always far more important issues for the country (economical, social and so on) to discuss about, monarchy is anyway history... how on Earth could a restoration of a monarchy solve them?!
Indeed, how could it...
They forget on purpose to tell the people of the constitutional neutral role of the monarch, a person that puts the national interest always above other interests. Which is just what Greece is missing. Without this monarch who could limit a bit the politicians thirst for power (and corruption), Greece will definitely have no better chance in escaping the huge crisis they are into.
We are not speaking just of an economic crisis, but of a moral crisis as well. I think the problem is much more deeper. A nation should have someone who can unite the people, not dividing them, manipulating them, like the politicians do.

The corruption of the political class, with interests foreign than those of the greek people, common people, has lead to this situation. And we are speaking here of a situation which has lasted and evolved for 40 years now. 40 years full of anti-monarchist propaganda. Don't you wonder why?
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  #276  
Old 07-17-2012, 05:40 PM
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Comparisons are odious, and when used to attack someone who is supposed to be of the same condition are more odious. The difference between Romania and Serbia with greece are the "presence". The treatment that the authorities of the Republic have given to the members of the former royales families. And I think the probability of restoring a monarchy is the same, the future is uncertain and no one can say how people will think in the future, however at present it is obvious that the treatment is very different . I think that the monarchy state is more democratic that one Republic, because the democratic is based in idea of the option, in the states with monarchies can be defensed the ideal of change the structure of the State, (are the parties with Republican ideology). but in the republics , can not be . option?
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  #277  
Old 09-19-2012, 12:03 PM
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That's exactly the core of the issue! It's exactly what politicians in the east-european republican countries want for the people to think or to believe. There are always far more important issues for the country (economical, social and so on) to discuss about, monarchy is anyway history... how on Earth could a restoration of a monarchy solve them?!
Indeed, how could it...
They forget on purpose to tell the people of the constitutional neutral role of the monarch, a person that puts the national interest always above other interests. Which is just what Greece is missing. Without this monarch who could limit a bit the politicians thirst for power (and corruption), Greece will definitely have no better chance in escaping the huge crisis they are into.
We are not speaking just of an economic crisis, but of a moral crisis as well. I think the problem is much more deeper. A nation should have someone who can unite the people, not dividing them, manipulating them, like the politicians do.

The corruption of the political class, with interests foreign than those of the greek people, common people, has lead to this situation. And we are speaking here of a situation which has lasted and evolved for 40 years now. 40 years full of anti-monarchist propaganda. Don't you wonder why?
Spain faces the same chaos, I don't see why Juan Carlos alone wasn't able to protect them (false argument in reply to your shallow account of the situation). My point: every country is different, meaning the people are different, and what works best for one country doesn't work at all for another. The Greek people don't accept titles, the concept of the monarchy is just not for them. Do not forget where true democracy came from: the ancient state of Athens.

For your information, many members of the former dynasty were great haters of the Greeks. Remember King George II, who stated he felt 100% British and refused to relate to anything Greek? Just one example.
The 'anti-monarchist propaganda' sounds like a joke... you can't brainwash anyone, when the obvious is before them. It's there, before everyone's eyes - it doesn't even require special historical research/study.
And that comes from someone, who visits Athens and Crete regularly, and who also happens to be half-Cypriot Greek.
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  #278  
Old 09-21-2012, 04:14 PM
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The word democracy was born in Greece, but not democracy. In ancient Greece, there was slavery, and the woman was regarded as an object, she had no opinion and could not participated in public affairs. The Democracy begins in late eighteenth century, with the recognition of the rights of the people, but actually appears in the twentieth century with the recognition of women's right to subfrage.King Juan Carlos I travelled saudi arabia and managed that the King of that country grant the works of construction of the high speed line to a Spanish public company and has made similar agreements with Russia and other countries of subamerica. Spanish public companies are not ruined by the work of King, this is just one of many other functions of King. The king is not one Economic Minister , King is not the government of the nation, ,the problem of public debt is one problem politician and economic. King does a great job in getting the Spanish public company are not ruined. It is very relevant because it are incomes for State in one moment of crisis, very relevant.
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  #279  
Old 12-23-2012, 11:10 PM
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But the difference is, the Dutch, British, Swedish people accept and largely love their royal families, whatever their ancestry. Greek people do not.
They don't want restoration, there is absolutely no movement behind it, and the royals are simply not popular.

Now, Monarchies in Serbia, Romania, Montenegro - they could be restored because the (former) royals do have presence in and support of the country. Greek one though, there is about as much chance as United States to tear up Declaration of Independence and becoming British colony again.
I am not privy to real reason for the abolishment of the Greek monarchy, but suffice it to state that even the thought of restoring that monarchy is totally ridiculous. A restored monarchy in Greece will not stabilize the country. There are situations that present themselves that we will never really fully understand. Tell CP Marie-Chantal to donate her trust fund to kickstart Greece's economy! They really are not even Greek-the family is descended from Danish King Christian IX, whose son was placed at the head of the Greek monarchy in the mid-1800's.
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  #280  
Old 12-24-2012, 12:51 AM
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I think the monarchy is stabilizing, only insofar that the RF themselves are stable and solid and don't start drama and messes in their families. At this point in time though, the GRF should count their blessings and just enjoy life.
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