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  #201  
Old 06-30-2010, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Kastalia View Post
I know what you mean.My first thought when i read your message was that if he was supported by 10% of population he would definitely want to form his own political party.I think that he is the type of man capable and ambitious enough for something like that.I mean he drove Greece to Courts so i can easily imagine him living in Greece, leading his political party,trying to influence and being permanently surrounded by monarchists..Of course this is just my thoughts..That's why i can't believe that he is supported by 10% of pop.But of course you can be very right..My work has to do with analysis and statistics area and i know that published percentages are often wrong.
I based my guesstimate on the assumption that Greece is the only country in Europe that, 65 years following the end of WWII, 60 years after the cessation of the Civil War and 20 after the Fall of Communism, continues to have not just a communist party, but a Stalinist one. Considering that this man was the biggest murderer in 20th Century Europe [perhaps of all times], it is only fanatiscism that can explain this phenomenon. Assuming, then, that the concept of the dipole exists not only in nature but also in the political, ideological field, I believe that there is probably an equal or equivalent percentage of the population that believes in anachronism (I use euphemism to avoid characterizations) at the other extreme of the spectrum.
Greece is in big trouble, much bigger than the Asia Minor (Mikrasiatiki) Catastrophe of 1922 and greater than the bankruptcy of the 1890s during the Charilaos Trikoupis administration. This ordeal is the result of unscrupulous spending, social permissiveness and total lawlessness, prompted by the unreasonable demands of the populus in collaboration and conspiracy with demagogue extraordinaire Andreas Papandreou. And certainly, all this mess has nothing to do with the polity, that is, whether the Head of State is hereditary or elected, directly or indirectly by the people. Actually, I would encourage Constantine to get involved with politics, why not. All voices should be heard. If there is room for avowed murderers [ie Stalinist Communists], there should be room for a Royalist Party. Diversity is a good thing for any society.

One thing that can be said safely about the good Greeks, that is, those who can stand to reason and assume responsibility for their own deeds and behaviour, is that, like the American people, they prefer to be in control of their destiny by electing and appointing the representatives of their choice, good or bad as they are.
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  #202  
Old 06-30-2010, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Vlaha Karatsokaros View Post
Greece is in big trouble, much bigger than the Asia Minor (Mikrasiatiki) Catastrophe of 1922 and greater than the bankruptcy of the 1890s during the Charilaos Trikoupis administration. This ordeal is the result of unscrupulous spending, social permissiveness and total lawlessness, prompted by the unreasonable demands of the populus in collaboration and conspiracy with demagogue extraordinaire Andreas Papandreou.
Sad but true.You made some very good points although i wouldn't encourage his envolvement with politics.This if of course my personal opinion..
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  #203  
Old 06-30-2010, 12:39 PM
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King Constantine will not dedicate to politics. In the Greek political organs there is no room for a member of the Royal Family, but yes there is room to the communists.This is by law. Political dynasties that have ruled Greece over the republic have ruined the country, they must resolve what they have created
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  #204  
Old 06-30-2010, 04:55 PM
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vlaha karatsokaros, i think you analyse the situation without having your eyes open, as we say. these are just opinions of an amount of greeks. i see no objectivity. you're accusing a certain politician of too much. did you know that until 1981, before he got elected as prime minister, if for example i went to my balcony and screamed something negative about the government, the next day i would be arrested? people were not even allowed an opinion before he came to govern. half human rights is half the work. and he gave well paid jobs and and and...do you think you are an aristocrat or superior to call the rest greeks "populus"? perhaps that's why you believe they didn't deserve all these "luxuries", eh?

i'll wait for an answer.

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  #205  
Old 06-30-2010, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Nikolopoulus View Post
King Constantine will not dedicate to politics. In the Greek political organs there is no room for a member of the Royal Family, but yes there is room to the communists.This is by law. Political dynasties that have ruled Greece over the republic have ruined the country, they must resolve what they have created
In Crete a journalist asked to him it ,and he said had no intentions of engaging in politics.
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  #206  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Nikolopoulus View Post
King Constantine will not dedicate to politics. In the Greek political organs there is no room for a member of the Royal Family, but yes there is room to the communists.This is by law. Political dynasties that have ruled Greece over the republic have ruined the country, they must resolve what they have created
In a Democracy there is room, there should be room for every ideology. Ainsi posέ, I would also encourage, why not, a royalist or monarchy-friendly party. Obviously, what King Constantine and his issue can or will do is their absolute prerogative to decide. My point was/is that cultural and political diversity and polyphony are an asset to any Democracy.
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  #207  
Old 07-01-2010, 06:24 AM
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you read the law and will see you as there is no room for a monarchist political party with this ideals. This possibility does not exist in Greece.First you throw stones at King and then you tell us that there is room for him in Greece,.
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  #208  
Old 07-01-2010, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Nikolopoulus View Post
you read the law and will see you as there is no room for a monarchist political party with this ideals. This possibility does not exist in Greece.First you throw stones at King and then you tell us that there is room for him in Greece,.
I understand it is illegal to attempt to change the polity and, therefore, for a monarchist party to exist under this explicit title. However, like EDA (cover-up for the Communist Party) was created when communism was outlawed in Greece, nothing stops King Constantine, as soon as he assumes a surname, to reclaim his citizenship and create a political party, which, I guess, he could name as he chose but a monarchist party - the implication nonetheless would be be obvious. And if anyone tried to stop him, then rest assured that, this time around, the European Court would be on his side!
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  #209  
Old 07-02-2010, 02:51 AM
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There's next to no chance for the monarchy to ever be restored in Greece- and that's saying something given much stronger monarchist sentiment exists in Serbia and to a degree Georgia, Romania and Bulgaria. However, a reappraisal of its role, positive and negative, is likely to be allowed in light of the current political class' dismal failures- namely, that the monarchy was widely blamed for many of Greece's troubles, yet those who were instrumental in its downfall were laid the foundations for much of its present-day problems..
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  #210  
Old 07-02-2010, 06:04 AM
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You do not compare, I think that in Bulgaria, Romania and Serbia, the monarchical ideology are in the minority, I remember a referendum in Serbia was not many years ago and turned the republic. If the monarchical ideology in these countries are majority. today would have a monarchy in them. They are republics and I do not think that this will be changed.Simeon has served as President of the Republic and he can not impose the monarchy in Bulgaria. What is the difference between Greece and these countries?
The difference is that the Greek Republic is built on the foundations of hatred of the monarchy ... That's the difference, Romanian and Bulgarian Republics have been a response to communism and Serbia is the result of a war ...
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  #211  
Old 07-02-2010, 09:29 AM
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Nikolopoulus,allow me to tell you that Greek Republic isn't built on the foundations of hatred of the monarchy.After centuries under Ottoman rule and major fights in order to obtain indipendence at last,Greeks won't accept a foreign family to rule.As far as i've read Glucksburgs are of German,Danish and Norwegian origin.The issue isn't about Greeks denying monarchy but about the family's Greekness.I've said in an other thread that Constantine was born,raised etc here so he has the same rights with a Greek who's born in USA for example.But rule the country?Drive Greece to courts and demand public wealth?Come freaking on!
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  #212  
Old 07-02-2010, 10:02 AM
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Nikolopoulos: the referendum in Serbia was on a new constitution after the dissolution of Serbia & Montenegro, not a monarchy/republic one, and the new constitution narrowly passed. Yes, monarchist sentiment is present in Serbia's political class and discourse, there are a couple of parties (one currently in the coalition government) that openly support it. Similarly some of the opposition parties in Georgia advocate monarchy too.

I think the difference is, countries like Serbia and Georgia have been looking for a rallying point and unifying symbol after recent demoralisations, while Romania and Bulgaria like those also experienced Communist oppression and many problems after that. The other difference is that Greece rejected its monarchy in a democratic referendum, so its deposition was legal and accepted. This was not the case in Yugoslavia, Albania, Romania or Bulgaria, where their deposition and hence the imposition of the regimes that followed was certainly not legal.

Kastalia: well said, except that we can also point out that royal families of foreign origins assimilated into other countries. This did not happen in Greece (despite the fact that King Alexander and Prince Michael married Greek women), even though Constantine II was "the most Greek" of the kings and had every chance to be a decent king and win popular support for the monarchy, which he singularly failed to do (though not entirely his own fault).
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  #213  
Old 07-02-2010, 12:19 PM
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In the referndum occurred in Greece, the King did not participate, was not allowed entry ... Today Serbia is a republic.
Kastalia you know that the cemetery of Tatoi is public, in this cementery is buried former Heads of State of Greece ... Their graves lie abandoned ....¿ why? Why?
because they are part of that foundation on which rose the Greek republic ...

And stop of "Glubsurg" There is no reason to continue the joke, and he has no Greek passport is no longer a Greek national, we can not continue with the nonsense ... This is not a problem of Greece ....
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  #214  
Old 07-02-2010, 02:38 PM
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David V, I’m not one of those people who move forward carrying their clichés with them so I won’t focus at the fact that Greece gave birth to ideas like democracy,etc. Greece was never a kingdom so none royal family could ever be assimilated because Greeks were fed up by longtime oppression and wouldn’t tolerate any dynasty.There’s no problem with foreign or mixed/multiracial people,the current Prime Minister is half-American and has a half-sister who was born out of wedlock and she’s half-Greek half-Swedish.So Greece isn’t a conservative society stuck in retrograde ideas. The issue is clearly financial to me.They demanded something that never belonged them from a country that had never nothing to do with Monarchy.
Nicolopoulus, I have no problem with Monarchy in general or foreigners .If Constantine was self-sufficient and didn’t expect dowry from a poor country who was clearly trying to survive Ottoman rule,Civil War,World Wars and Invasion (Katoxi) he would have been ok. But he was unlucky because he had no alternative choice,i don’t know the size of his fortune but i’m sure he’s not hungry and that he doesn’t have the right to demand anything,that’s what i’m saying. His wive’s sister became a Queen by accessing her father, his sister became Queen by marriage,every single relative has a title and he ended in London boiling with anger. Who’s fault is that?If his ancestors were Greeks,and Greece was traditionally a kingdom and they would have fought for Greek Independence when needed be sure that he would have been in his place now. Great Powers have established Monarchy in Greece in 1832,in a country that was massacred to ensure after centuries it’s borderlines. Do you think that it was fair? Surely not.When Sofia was about to marry the whole country was hungry but was forced by Frederika to embroider for her dowry.Not to mention the cost of her wedding. So please don’t tell me what’s funny/joke or not. Greece’s problem right now should be how to surpass microeconomics and craft level in order to pass to macro and instustrial level.We live in 2010,we are in the middle of a hardcore economic crisis and we still talk about wrong decisions taken by some anti-Hellenic ignorants due to their benefits.Their 4 million euro compensation was the best thing this awful former socialist government did.
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  #215  
Old 07-02-2010, 08:35 PM
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I think the opinions of those who are Greek are the most valid. It is their nation and should be run their way. It is always disconcerting to me, in my many years studying history, that a totally foreign family could ascend to a throne and try to become the new nationality. You can in melting pot societies such as ours, the U.S. Those being elected to a "throne" and mostly marrying other Europeans, does not a Greek make. Prince Phillip is no more Greek than the man in the moon, nor is King Constantine. And, I can see, that the issue of money would be a very sensitive one. There is no Greek Monarchy and I can see how citizens of Greece take umbrage to this thought.
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  #216  
Old 07-04-2010, 02:31 PM
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I believe that it is quite hard to estimate the true number of the monarchist or pro monarchist Greeks inside and outsied the country. I doubt that there has been a gallop or research for many years and so there can be only guesses. To me , it seems een harder to estimate the monarchist among the expatriate Greeks who live all over the world .
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  #217  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:06 AM
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Discussion concerning the lack of surname of the Royal Families of Denmark and of Greece has been moved to the Titles & surnames... thread where the subject has been covered repeatedly and at some length.
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  #218  
Old 07-05-2010, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kastalia View Post
Sad but true.You made some very good points although i wouldn't encourage his envolvement with politics.This if of course my personal opinion..
When the Greeks got rid of the American Naval bases and business presence in Greece they got rid of the nation that used to pick up their debt when they defaulted.But now as you say Kastalia I agree with you and would not encourage the King to involve himself with politics at all. King Constantine has his health and family to look after.Again just my opinion too.
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  #219  
Old 07-05-2010, 04:34 PM
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I suppose many greeks are not against the Monarchy but they still pay tribute to a leftist mentality.
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  #220  
Old 07-06-2010, 02:28 PM
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I suppose many greeks are not against the Monarchy but they still pay tribute to a leftist mentality.
that's a different story. that's more like a culture than mentality or political position. i'm sure we're not allowed to analyse it here.

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