Greek Royal Palaces and Residences

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

@ Vasilofron and Beltraneja

You are both raising very interesting questions from the legal and constitutional standpoint.

First of all, whether they are treated by law as Greek or not, as long as they are European citizens, the members of the Greek royal family enjoy the same privileges as the Greek citizens and they can own estate anywhere, and they can buy plots in cemeteries and they can stand even as candidates for local authority elections. Once they choose to get naturalized, they may stand for parliamentary elections, even as candidates for premiership.

Now, here is the problem:
Private cemeteries are strictly forbidden by the current and past Greek Constitutions, since the inception of the modern Greek state, in fact. The only exception applied to and for the Royal Family.
People may buy and own plots in "active" cemeteries, but not own their own cemeteries. Further, once a cemetery is, for whatever reason, declared "inactive", it can no longer accept remains even if a family owns a plot or tomb there. The only exception in recent decades was the burrial of former prime-minister and president Constantine Karamanlis on the grounds of the large acreage of the Karamanlis Foundation in Filothei, Athens. In fact, the constitutionality of this act has been questioned.

Thus, a good bet is that in all likelihood the Royal Cemetery will be deemed "inactive" once the current kings and their children, born as princes and princesses of Greece, and their relatives, also born as prince(s) and princess(es) of Greece such as prince Michael and princess Irene have passed on.
This is only a guess and based on the fact that, from then on, all issue, even if naturalized by that time under the Hellenic Republic, will have no rights to continuity in the history of the Greek Monarchy.

I would like to read your thoughts on that. It is quite a morbid issue to discuss but has an enormous historical and legal significance.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

at this time, the cemetery and the palace are the state .... In conclusion the cemetery is public, to be buried in it must be asked permission from the authorities in Greece, I do not know what parameters the greek authorities uses to determine the person that can or not can not be buried in it.
I think that to be buried in that cemetery must be taken into account several factors:
The first, the desire of the family of be buried in Tatoi.
The second, that they seek permission from the Greek authorities
Third, I believe that there is no specific rule governing access to the cemetery Tatoi and therefore I believe that Greek authorities are free to admit or reject,
I think the absence of specific regulations regarding the cemetery, the authorities are free to decide, in conclusion, it can become a political issue

 

[Lord Rossmore]

Tatoi as far as i know is a private residence of King Constantine I know it is his wish to return to greece with his family and live there.

 

[Odette]

The Greek government has taken Tatoi back from the Royal family. They allowed a certain crates of personal property to be removed from the Palace and compensated the King for a fraction of the estate's value.
The Greek State owns Tatoi for a number of years now. They have plans to open it sometime in the future as a museum.
The King no longer owns any royal property in Greece.

 

[Nico]

A rare pic from inside Tatoi (the first ever seen for me) showing the high level of neglect after 40 years..

-> Tatoi disintegrating

From this article (in greek): kathimerini.gr | Óå ðáñáêìÞ ôï Ôáôüé
I remember some pictures showing the rusting royal rolls royce, various work of arts or some Anne Marie's clothes found inside the palace...

 

[Nico]

I was able to find this interesting article (in greek), yet relatively old (2005) but showing a good amount of pics of the items found inside Tatoi palace...

Ôáôüé: ÐåñáóìÝíá ìåãáëåßá...

On a side note, there is a pic of some Anne Marie's dresses still looking lovely after 40 years !

http://www.forthnet.gr/media/FOTOS/...0xN/EV_TATOYLHS_BASILIKA_KTHMATA_TATOI_28.jpg

A good royal watcher can identify two of these dresses

The pink one :

http://cdn.theroyalforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9272&d=1056241203

And the yellow one just behind:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0X18t-8ZkNM/SzIojqPhRaI/AAAAAAAAAJQ/1ajxox42z-s/s512/βασιλικο ζευγος.jpg

Fascinating time machine i must say ....

 

[BELTRANEJA]

A rare pic from inside Tatoi (the first ever seen for me) showing the high level of neglect after 40 years..

-> Tatoi disintegrating

From this article (in greek): kathimerini.gr | Óå ðáñáêìÞ ôï Ôáôüé
I remember some pictures showing the rusting royal rolls royce, various work of arts or some Anne Marie's clothes found inside the palace...

I'm surprised the images, because two years ago, the Greek culture minister made a report in Tatoi connection with the restoration of the Palace ... the press said it had been removed the furnishings and moved to Athens for restoration " when is this photo? is present?

 

[Nico]

when is this photo? is present?

Well apparently, the article is from november 2009. Maybe the valuable furnishing was removed (a good part was already sent to Constantine back in the 90's) and the rest (50's and 60's furnishing) left inside the mansion...

 

[BELTRANEJA]

The pink dress was the baptism of princess Alexia

 

[Medousa]

Someone said in the previous pages (i think it was in this thread) that the former royal family could be used for advertisement reasons.I am not patient enough to search and quote the post but i agree.It wouldn't harm anyone if they lived in Greece unless if their way of living was way too expensive.It is hard to say if monarchy should be abolished but it wouldn't be bad if the palace was open for tourists and Marie Chantal's business were in Greece.That would be quite productive.In other words they could occupy people,give them jobs.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

That is a matter of the Greek government, the palace is owned by the state. The abandoned does not make any profit, but it is the Government who has to decide the fate of their properties.

 

[snowflower]

The palaces that the family used in the centre are already used - the big palace is were the Parliament is hosted and Constantine I palace is the Presidential residence. When it comes to the estate at Tatoi they should really open it to the public and restore it. It's not as if there are countless parks and other green areas in Attica and it does have a very big park. After all it was confiscated due to reason of "public interest" so the public might as well use it.

 

[Medousa]

When it comes to the estate at Tatoi they should really open it to the public and restore it. It's not as if there are countless parks and other green areas in Attica and it does have a very big park. After all it was confiscated due to reason of "public interest" so the public might as well use it.

We are talking about the same thing.I said that even if they lived in Greece using it,it could still be open to the public.
I know that the main palace is used as a presidential house.I still remember Marie-Chantal's face during her tour some years ago,she could live there.I would be mad as well.Anyway.It wouldn't hurt anyone if they lived in Greece using their own properties and fortune.Greek state could handle the whole tax-thing.Because when they received 4 million euros the marvellous prime minister we had then said that if monarchy was restored Greek taxpayers would be severely damaged.But now that we got rid of them once and for good everything in Greece runs like Swiss clock.Nice.

 

[grandlordbenji16]

i think greece republic should allow the family to retain the use of the tatoi estate due to the fact that they have history there and to make up for the damage they have done to the family they should follow the example of romania and serbia where personal property even crown are given back to me its seem the greek have fear that given this historical house back to the family might provoke monarchist uprising

 

[Kastalia]

^ You're not wrong,but the official reason of that denial from Greece's side was that Tatoi grove would be open to puplic.Of course the fear of the uprising that you mention is true.

 

[Nikolopoulus]

It is true that the official excuse was to protect the area of trees of Tatoi, but it was the excuse because for years has been abandoned and exposed to fire, it has not been cleaned and protected trees species.The dead trees haven´t been felled and the sick haven´t been fumigated, it has been abandoned......IT WAS A OFFICIAL EXCUSE

 

[Jaya]

Someone said in the previous pages (i think it was in this thread) that the former royal family could be used for advertisement reasons.I am not patient enough to search and quote the post but i agree.It wouldn't harm anyone if they lived in Greece unless if their way of living was way too expensive.It is hard to say if monarchy should be abolished but it wouldn't be bad if the palace was open for tourists and Marie Chantal's business were in Greece.That would be quite productive.In other words they could occupy people,give them jobs.

Wake up my dear, the monarchy has been abolished.As for giving jobs to Greeks I seriously doubt it as they look down on foreigners who want to commercialize the idea that everybody can be a civil servant instead of being in business.So you are reversing the principle of Monarchy- you want to use them- and not have them serve you-as for giving jobs i think it is late in the day to do that

 

[Kastalia]

for years has been abandoned and exposed to fire, it has not been cleaned and protected trees species.The dead trees haven´t been felled and the sick haven´t been fumigated, it has been abandoned......IT WAS A OFFICIAL EXCUSE

True.And that's sad..Tatoi area is a very beautiful and historic place and now it is such a mess.

 

[snowflower]

I ve beem to Corfu for vacations for the last week and at last I was able to visit Mon Repos twice. I was pleasantly surprised because it is very well maintained , I expected to see it in a bad condition. Most of the rooms in the main palace are now a museum mainly with archaiological findings from the Palaiopolis area but on the ground floor there are a few rooms dedicated to the history of Mon Repos . A very obliging guide helped me and my firends and explained to us the history of the estate . Ιt was built in 1831 as a summer residence by the British High Comissioner of the Ionians Frederick Adam who was married to a Corfiot woman ,Nina Palatianou, famous for two things in the then society : her sharp mind and her unfortunate looks. However, they didn't use it for long , because Adam was relocated to serve to India. In his will, Adam left the palace to the municipality of Corfu and it was not used until King George I rented it. According to the museum guide, he was the onlu one of the Greek Kings who ever paid a rent for its use. She also showed to us copies of the original will, which were sent to the European courts. I noticed that although there were exhibits dating back to Adam and Palatianou , there were no exhibits from the Royral family and the guide told me that all things belonging to the family have either been removed by the King after the fortune settlement or went missing. It has been hard to monitor them, because Mon Repos stayed locked for 30 years. Only two royal items are still there - a broken vase which have been restored and a painting made by Frederika. I will try and post some pictures once I put them in order.

 

[Nikolopoulus]

The Anne Marie foundation could have bought a property near Athens,in it will be the Foundation for Greece, it will have a museum. Is it possible that this museum will be intended for the Greek royal family? will it be the future museum of the Royal Family?. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

[BELTRANEJA]

I found photos of a property that the they had been seeing , they were interested in it , I thought that this was the land that the King had bought, but I searched on a map and is far from Porto Heli and Constantine said was next to Porto Heli. Now I understand it, the house near Athens is the property of the foundation or rather the Foundation has been interested in it, but I do not know if it was purchased, and the property purchased near Porto Heli is of King Constantine

 

[Nikolopoulus]

yes, yes!! it is!! I have listened that it was bought by foundation and it will have a museum, but I don´t know where is it specifically ?.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I will be in Athens end of August... is the Royal Cemetery at Tatoi open to the public? Thanks!!!

 

[Nikolopoulus]

I entered, you no need a ticket , not one was there .

Beltraneja, you've talked about some pictures of the new property, but I have not found anything, I heard that the foundation had bought a property that in the past the king Pavlo lived in it or passed vacations in it. If you could post your photos, or send it to my mail I could say where it is.

 

[roimat]

...the guide told me that all things belonging to the family have either been removed by the King after the fortune settlement or went missing.

The guard is a great lier! No item has been removed by the King! In the contrary, the Mon Repos palace was closed til 1993, when the "People of Corfu" and the sosialist Mayor broke in and probably then, took what they need! And now, as you saw, they don't even tell to the visitors that the Greek Royal Family lived there!

 

[snowflower]

I don't think it is a matter of lying of lying or spreading false rumours on purpose - I think it is more a matter of nearly total ignorance. The guides were young people in their early 30s who knew little about the place's royal history apart from the basics. I watched a scene where an elderly British couple was asking information about Prince Philip's family because they knew that he was born in Mon Repos and the family lived there, but they guides didn't really knew much to tell them. When it comes to the items removal , apart from the breaking in, no one working there knows what really happened - there are only rumours, some crazy about who and how removed all the items - they guess that that some were stolen when the place stayed unguarded and others were removed by Constantine. But it is true that the place's royal history is mentioned very little and, largely, in an inadequate manner.

 

[roimat]

Yes but, in th other hand, i cannot imagine that one is appointed there, and don't know the real history the Mon Repo. So i believe that it is a matter of lying!

 

[Odette]

I supposed all along that guides are to be educated and knowledgeable about the properties and locations when they explain the history of any one site. The young age cannot be an excuse. They are supposed to learn and pass exams to be allowed to become guides.
The socialist Mayor of Corfu at the time the initial claims were laid, claimed that there were some ancient ruins underneath the Mon Repos and as such, it could not be a private property for anyone but the State.
Snowflower, sounds to me like you were told deliberate lies by the young guide and it is a pity since you were obviously misled. Perhaps it is not the guide's fault because he/she just repeats what it was said but still, they distort the history of the Palace on purpose.

 

[roimat]

Odette, that's excaclty my point: they are supposed to learn tha history, but they don't....

 

[Odette]

Odette, that's excaclty my point: they are supposed to learn tha history, but they don't....

I have found that at times when it comes to places linked to royalty in a republican State, things are distorted on purpose to fit the image a country wants to portray.
In Greece there is a 30 year or so gap between the family's departure and their reappearance on the scene. A lot of young people never learnt or never cared enough to read the truth about the Greek Royals.
I wonder what the stories will be when and if Tatoi ever opens as a museum.