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  #201  
Old 07-23-2010, 05:39 AM
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I found photos of a property that the they had been seeing , they were interested in it , I thought that this was the land that the King had bought, but I searched on a map and is far from Porto Heli and Constantine said was next to Porto Heli. Now I understand it, the house near Athens is the property of the foundation or rather the Foundation has been interested in it, but I do not know if it was purchased, and the property purchased near Porto Heli is of King Constantine
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  #202  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:38 AM
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yes, yes!! it is!! I have listened that it was bought by foundation and it will have a museum, but I don´t know where is it specifically ?.
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  #203  
Old 07-28-2010, 09:59 PM
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I will be in Athens end of August... is the Royal Cemetery at Tatoi open to the public? Thanks!!!
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  #204  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:29 AM
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I entered, you no need a ticket , not one was there .

Beltraneja, you've talked about some pictures of the new property, but I have not found anything, I heard that the foundation had bought a property that in the past the king Pavlo lived in it or passed vacations in it. If you could post your photos, or send it to my mail I could say where it is.
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  #205  
Old 08-05-2010, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
...the guide told me that all things belonging to the family have either been removed by the King after the fortune settlement or went missing.
The guard is a great lier! No item has been removed by the King! In the contrary, the Mon Repos palace was closed til 1993, when the "People of Corfu" and the sosialist Mayor broke in and probably then, took what they need! And now, as you saw, they don't even tell to the visitors that the Greek Royal Family lived there!
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  #206  
Old 08-07-2010, 07:16 AM
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I don't think it is a matter of lying of lying or spreading false rumours on purpose - I think it is more a matter of nearly total ignorance. The guides were young people in their early 30s who knew little about the place's royal history apart from the basics. I watched a scene where an elderly British couple was asking information about Prince Philip's family because they knew that he was born in Mon Repos and the family lived there, but they guides didn't really knew much to tell them. When it comes to the items removal , apart from the breaking in, no one working there knows what really happened - there are only rumours, some crazy about who and how removed all the items - they guess that that some were stolen when the place stayed unguarded and others were removed by Constantine. But it is true that the place's royal history is mentioned very little and, largely, in an inadequate manner.
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  #207  
Old 08-18-2010, 01:44 PM
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Yes but, in th other hand, i cannot imagine that one is appointed there, and don't know the real history the Mon Repo. So i believe that it is a matter of lying!
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  #208  
Old 08-18-2010, 01:52 PM
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I supposed all along that guides are to be educated and knowledgeable about the properties and locations when they explain the history of any one site. The young age cannot be an excuse. They are supposed to learn and pass exams to be allowed to become guides.
The socialist Mayor of Corfu at the time the initial claims were laid, claimed that there were some ancient ruins underneath the Mon Repos and as such, it could not be a private property for anyone but the State.
Snowflower, sounds to me like you were told deliberate lies by the young guide and it is a pity since you were obviously misled. Perhaps it is not the guide's fault because he/she just repeats what it was said but still, they distort the history of the Palace on purpose.
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  #209  
Old 08-18-2010, 07:25 PM
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Odette, that's excaclty my point: they are supposed to learn tha history, but they don't....
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  #210  
Old 08-19-2010, 07:02 AM
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Odette, that's excaclty my point: they are supposed to learn tha history, but they don't....
I have found that at times when it comes to places linked to royalty in a republican State, things are distorted on purpose to fit the image a country wants to portray.
In Greece there is a 30 year or so gap between the family's departure and their reappearance on the scene. A lot of young people never learnt or never cared enough to read the truth about the Greek Royals.
I wonder what the stories will be when and if Tatoi ever opens as a museum.
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  #211  
Old 08-20-2010, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
I have found that at times when it comes to places linked to royalty in a republican State, things are distorted on purpose to fit the image a country wants to portray.
In Greece there is a 30 year or so gap between the family's departure and their reappearance on the scene. A lot of young people never learnt or never cared enough to read the truth about the Greek Royals.
I wonder what the stories will be when and if Tatoi ever opens as a museum.
There is no hope about the truth :-(...just think of that: todays minister of Culture in Greece, Pavlos Geroulanos, is the son of the "Avlarhis" of Queen Frederica, Marinos Geroulanos. When a profesor of History tried to write a book about Tatoi and it's history, the only person who denied to speak about Tatoi, was Marinos Geroulanos...you can imagine why...
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  #212  
Old 08-22-2010, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
The socialist Mayor of Corfu at the time the initial claims were laid, claimed that there were some ancient ruins underneath the Mon Repos and as such, it could not be a private property for anyone but the State.
The ancient ruins inside the estate are quite important I believe. I saw the remnants of a temple dedicated to Hera , and there is also another temple which is quite large, but I have not walked there to find it. I was told that the estate has underneath it an important part of the ancient Palaiopolis and that they are actually still digging and finding more stuff. I was surprised when I heard it I had no idea about it. On the other hand , this is Greece - if start digging in my back yard , I might find something ancient myself !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
Snowflower, sounds to me like you were told deliberate lies by the young guide and it is a pity since you were obviously misled. Perhaps it is not the guide's fault because he/she just repeats what it was said but still, they distort the history of the Palace on purpose.
Odette , I really hope this is not the case here, because if I ever found out I was misled on purpose, I would be really dissapointed. You see, I believe in a republic, not because I hate royals in any way, but because I really believe it is the best possible form of government , due to certain principles. Therefore, if I discover that the government's attitude towards Mon Repos and Tatoi is not a matter of negligence or lack of interest and money, but instead that our politicians actually and truly think that half a dozen of royal residences can threaten the Third Hellenic Republic 36 years after the referendumthat much that they have to stay closed to the public , I would honestly feel quite awful.
B y the way one of the best things I liked about Mon Repos was that there was not ticket ot get in. When I visited Achilleion, I unfortunately had to pay 10 euros to get in, plus 3 for the auto guide - which was a bit harsh for my poor holiday budget
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  #213  
Old 08-22-2010, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
I ve beem to Corfu for vacations for the last week and at last I was able to visit Mon Repos twice. I was pleasantly surprised because it is very well maintained , I expected to see it in a bad condition. Most of the rooms in the main palace are now a museum mainly with archaiological findings from the Palaiopolis area but on the ground floor there are a few rooms dedicated to the history of Mon Repos . A very obliging guide helped me and my firends and explained to us the history of the estate . Ιt was built in 1831 as a summer residence by the British High Comissioner of the Ionians Frederick Adam who was married to a Corfiot woman ,Nina Palatianou, famous for two things in the then society : her sharp mind and her unfortunate looks. However, they didn't use it for long , because Adam was relocated to serve to India. In his will, Adam left the palace to the municipality of Corfu and it was not used until King George I rented it. According to the museum guide, he was the onlu one of the Greek Kings who ever paid a rent for its use. She also showed to us copies of the original will, which were sent to the European courts. I noticed that although there were exhibits dating back to Adam and Palatianou , there were no exhibits from the Royral family and the guide told me that all things belonging to the family have either been removed by the King after the fortune settlement or went missing. It has been hard to monitor them, because Mon Repos stayed locked for 30 years. Only two royal items are still there - a broken vase which have been restored and a painting made by Frederika. I will try and post some pictures once I put them in order.
I understand this: In the Corfu Palace is a document in which it appears that the palace was not owned by the Greek royal family, was a lease that the Kings never paid. This paper was presented as evidence in the Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, by Greece . In 2000 the Strasbourg court ruled that Constantine was the owner of the palace of Corfu and the rest, it is obvious, they presented evidence that demostrated that the Greek royal family was owner of the Palace. Today in the Palace Corfu is exhibited a document that it says that the family Royal was not owner of Palace, The Tribune of strasburgo, said that THE FAMILY was the owner. All European Union countries are obliged to abide by the judgments of the Court in Strasbourg. The Court said that the owner was the Royal Family. it is a International Tribune
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  #214  
Old 08-22-2010, 06:04 PM
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I've read somewhere that the Greek government allowed in 1991 Constantine to remove items from Tatoi and sell them at an auction later.Do you know what kind of items were those? Paintings? Furniture? And how did that actually happened since Constantine was persona non grata at that time??
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  #215  
Old 08-22-2010, 06:40 PM
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In all States, there goods of historical value, this may be owned:
a:be owner the State or
b:be owner a private person.
In 1991 King Constantine and Greek government(Misotakis and Dora was culture minester) signed a paper return or retitucion of the property. The Government requested a inventory of goods of the the palaces. The goods were classified in:
A:historical valuables owned by the Royal family, but they could not leave Greece.
b: Goods without historical value for Greece, they could leave Greece.
Were classiefied as without historical value, all the goods relatives to the royal House of Russian and German:
The inventory determined that they had no historical value for Greece, the governnment authorized to leave Greece, were private property without historical value.
I currently haven´t the large Judgement of the Court of Strasbourg, this was a copy of the agreement with the Greek government, it was the inventary. I have not it now here ..but it was in Sentence
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  #216  
Old 08-22-2010, 06:47 PM
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Thank you very much for your reply BELTRANEJA.I've searched for the article but i still can't find it.This family's story is so fascinating!
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  #217  
Old 08-23-2010, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Helen Anna View Post
I've read somewhere that the Greek government allowed in 1991 Constantine to remove items from Tatoi and sell them at an auction later.Do you know what kind of items were those? Paintings? Furniture? And how did that actually happened since Constantine was persona non grata at that time??

Most of the items were sold at Christie's in 2007. They were silverware, jewelry, paintings jade and porcelain items. They belonged to the Greek royal family and their provenance were mostly from Russia. Most items belonged to King George I. The items were in the possesion of the King who removed them from Greece legally.
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  #218  
Old 08-23-2010, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
The ancient ruins inside the estate are quite important I believe. I saw the remnants of a temple dedicated to Hera , and there is also another temple which is quite large, but I have not walked there to find it. I was told that the estate has underneath it an important part of the ancient Palaiopolis and that they are actually still digging and finding more stuff. I was surprised when I heard it I had no idea about it. On the other hand , this is Greece - if start digging in my back yard , I might find something ancient myself !

The issue of the ruins under the Palace came forth when the Royal family laid claim during the socialist mayor's term. I agree that they are of importance however how come no one "discovered" this until that time? A word of advice, never dig your back yard, not even to plant a tree...


Odette , I really hope this is not the case here, because if I ever found out I was misled on purpose, I would be really dissapointed. You see, I believe in a republic, not because I hate royals in any way, but because I really believe it is the best possible form of government , due to certain principles. Therefore, if I discover that the government's attitude towards Mon Repos and Tatoi is not a matter of negligence or lack of interest and money, but instead that our politicians actually and truly think that half a dozen of royal residences can threaten the Third Hellenic Republic 36 years after the referendumthat much that they have to stay closed to the public , I would honestly feel quite awful.
B y the way one of the best things I liked about Mon Repos was that there was not ticket ot get in. When I visited Achilleion, I unfortunately had to pay 10 euros to get in, plus 3 for the auto guide - which was a bit harsh for my poor holiday budget
There is a lot of misinformation about the royals and whether it is intentional or not I cannot say. There is a gap of almost thirty years where the details about them were more or less hushed up. Add to this old "passions" either for or against the family and one may end up "learning" history in a much different way than what facts we lived through
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  #219  
Old 08-23-2010, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
Most of the items were sold at Christie's in 2007. They were silverware, jewelry, paintings jade and porcelain items. They belonged to the Greek royal family and their provenance were mostly from Russia. Most items belonged to King George I. The items were in the possesion of the King who removed them from Greece legally.
Wow..It took them long enough to sell them.Very interesting piece of information,thanks a lot.
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  #220  
Old 08-24-2010, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA View Post
I understand this: In the Corfu Palace is a document in which it appears that the palace was not owned by the Greek royal family, was a lease that the Kings never paid. This paper was presented as evidence in the Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, by Greece . In 2000 the Strasbourg court ruled that Constantine was the owner of the palace of Corfu and the rest, it is obvious, they presented evidence that demostrated that the Greek royal family was owner of the Palace. Today in the Palace Corfu is exhibited a document that it says that the family Royal was not owner of Palace, The Tribune of strasburgo, said that THE FAMILY was the owner. All European Union countries are obliged to abide by the judgments of the Court in Strasbourg. The Court said that the owner was the Royal Family. it is a International Tribune
The document inside the Mon Repos is a copy of Frederick Adam's will, who when he died left the original Mon Repos estate to Corfu. So the only thing that this exhibited paper proves is that the first owner of the place left it to the municipality of Corfu, it mentions nothing about the agreement between Corfu and the royal family. I found yesterday on the web a PDF text with the case and the court's decision and I understand that the Greek state claimed that the place was rented to George I, while King Constantine claimed that it was gifted and that his ancestor bought neighbouring lands with personal money and now the original estate only a part of the current estate. If the Court of Strasbourg ruled in favour of the King's side, then I am sure that he provided sufficient evidence to support his claim.
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