Royal Families of France

[britti]

Originally Posted by Iwona

I don't know what the difference between Orlean and Bourbons is.Are they branches of bigger family or they are different?

Also I wonder about Bonapart family, Napoleon had many sisters and brothers, who had also children, but today there are only three male from that family.So what happened to the desendent of Napoleon's sisters?

concerning the Bonapartes:

Male descendants are only from the line of Jerome Bonaparte, that´s true. Napoleons brother Joseph only had two daughter, Zenaide and Charlotte, who married Charles Lucien, the eldest son of Lucien Bonaparte and Alexandrine jacob de Bleschamp. They had many children, but Charles Lucien´s son Napoleon Chalres Grégoire only left two daughters, who died without descendants. From Lucien´s son Pierre descended the last Princess of the line, the psychananalyst Marie Bonaparte, the famous Princess of Greece, who had two children. Many of Charles Lucien and Zenaides daugher married in different italian noble families, who descendants do still exist. Charles Lucien sister Lätitia married Thomas Wyse, and her descendants are still living, carrying the name Bonaparte-Wyse as a double name, even when I have read there is no offcial decrete, who allows this. Another sister of Charles Lucien, daughter of Lucien, married count Valentini, they still have many descendants, called Valentini or Valentini Bonaparte.
Napoleons brother Louis had Napoleon III and two other sons, who died early because of illnesses. From his marriage with Eugenie Napoleon III had one son Eugene, who died without leaving decendants. So the official title was given to the descendants of Jerome. Napoleon III had two illeg, sons, two, as had also his father. The descendants of Louis´illegitimate son with the surname Castelvecchio do still exist via a female line. Napoleon himself had from the marriage with Marie Louise the son Franz von Reichstadt, who died without leaving any children, but Napoleon I also had two illeg. son, count Alexandre Walewski and Count Léon, the first by Maria Walewska and the second by Eleonore de la Plaige. There are still many descendants of Alexandre today, the most (or all) come from Alexandre illeg. and later recognized son, by the jewish actress Rachel Felix. Count Léon has also descendants, but the male line had extingished in 1994, when Charles Léon, the last count of Léon died. But there are descendants from the daughter, I think.
Jerome Bonaparte, apart from his todays descendants from Catherine of Würrtemberg has also descendants by Elizabeth Patterson, his first American wife. This line extingished in the male line in the year 1945.
Now sisters of Napoleons. That´s very easy. Pauline did not leave descendants, her only son by Leclerc died as a child. Elisa has two sons, who died quite early and a daughter Napoleone Elisa, who married the count of Camerata, via the female lines there are still many descendants, especially in italian noble families. The sister Caroline has descendants as well. He married the famous general and king Joachim Murat, and there are many descendants from the Murat family. The main line of the todays Princes Murat is the one of Joachim Murat, born in 1944, who had one son and four daughters. He often taked part in festivals etc concering Napoleon and Murat.
The line of the heirs of the one of Jerome, now it´s Charles Napoleon, who has one son and a daughter my his first wife Beatrice of Bourbon Siciles and one daughter by the corsican Lady Francoise Valliccioni. He had adopted a daughter, too. His brother Jerome is not married. He has two sisters, Catherine and Laure (Catherine is the twin sister of Charles), who are both married and have children.

[Princess Robijn]

Originally Posted by Elsa M.

Diana belongs to the second most traditional family in Portugal, which is a colateral branch of the family of the Dukes of Bragança (i.e., the kings of the 4th Dynasty). The Cadaval ducal title was created in 1648 by D. João IV, who granted it to D. Nuno Álvares Pereira, one of the most powerful noblemen of the kingdom and a decisive figure for the recovery of the national sovereignty, in 1640.

Here's the family's website:
http://casacadaval.com/_wsn/page2.html

Diana Mariana Vitória Álvares Pereira de Melo is the 11th Duchess of Cadaval. She was born in Genève, in 1978, as the first daughter of D. Jaime Álvares Pereira de Melo (the 10th Duke of Cadaval) with his second wife, Claudine Marguerite Marianne Tritz.

Thanks

[DrosteSchattenburg]

The Titles within the Orleans-Family, are they just courtesy-titles the head of the House granted to members of the family?
I 've read that the late Comte de Paris was granting the Title Duchess of Montpensier to his divorced Daughter in law. Other Members of the Family have also various "historic" Titles which seem to be given in a rather random way. I.E. as i am aware the Duke of Chartes was always the oldest Son of the Duke of Orleans as head of the Orleans-line. Now it is a nephew of the present Comte de Paris.
Is there just a pool of historic Titles the family lay a claim to and distributed within the Family?
This seems very 'ancien regime' and i wounder what actual Right the Comte de Paris has to create dukes, duchesses and counts?

[Elsa M.]

I didn't know if it's worth creating a new thread in the royal library just to post this info, so here it is: a new book by Point de Vue's journalist, Vincent Meylan, was just released. It's entitled Contre-enquete sur le Comte et la Comtesse de Paris and it focous the marital life of the late Count and Countess of Paris:
http://www.evene.fr/livres/livre/vin...-par-25801.php

[Benjamin]

Thanks for that information Elsa M. I'm sure this book is very interesting indeed.

[Elsa M.]

You're welcome!
Point de Vue's issue from January 10th published some parts of this book, along with some beautiful photos...

In case anyone wants to order the book, here's the link from Amazon and Fnac:
http://www.amazon.fr/Contre-enqu%C3%.../dp/2857048971
http://www3.fnac.com/search/quick.do...&category=book

[tanya]

can anyone tell me anything about the count of paris? thank you! Tanya and his oldest son?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by DrosteSchattenburg

The Titles within the Orleans-Family, are they just courtesy-titles the head of the House granted to members of the family?
I 've read that the late Comte de Paris was granting the Title Duchess of Montpensier to his divorced Daughter in law. Other Members of the Family have also various "historic" Titles which seem to be given in a rather random way. I.E. as i am aware the Duke of Chartes was always the oldest Son of the Duke of Orleans as head of the Orleans-line. Now it is a nephew of the present Comte de Paris.
Is there just a pool of historic Titles the family lay a claim to and distributed within the Family?
This seems very 'ancien regime' and i wounder what actual Right the Comte de Paris has to create dukes, duchesses and counts?

The late Comte de Paris created his younger son Jacques, Duke of Orléans and it is his son Charles-Louis who is the Duke of Chartres so the are in this indeed following the old tradition.

[Beatrice]

Hello,i would like to learn details about Princess Marie Lefevre of Orleans and her family with Olivier Dassault,son of Serge Dassault who is ranked as the 4th richest person in France.
Serge Dassault - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Olivier Dassault - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do you know anything about their children?I read for first time at wikipedia that they have two, HRH Marcus Pierre-Louis Lefevre Dassault of Orleans and Emilie Antoinette Lefevre Dassault of Orleans.I've searched but haven't found anything so i would appreciate if someone from TRF helped me.If someone has already posted for them give me the link for the thread please!

[Warren]

How can a M. Dessault have a son born an HRH? This makes no sense, and reinforces the need to treat some Wikipedia entries with extreme caution.

[Danielane]

Originally Posted by Beatrice

Hello,i would like to learn details about Princess Marie Lefevre of Orleans and her family with Olivier Dassault,son of Serge Dassault who is ranked as the 4th richest person in France.
Serge Dassault - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Olivier Dassault - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do you know anything about their children?I read for first time at wikipedia that they have two, HRH Marcus Pierre-Louis Lefevre Dassault of Orleans and Emilie Antoinette Lefevre Dassault of Orleans.I've searched but haven't found anything so i would appreciate if someone from TRF helped me.If someone has already posted for them give me the link for the thread please!

There is absolutely nothing true in these articles.

[Beatrice]

thank you both.

[Next Star]

What happened to the Duke of Burgundy and the rest of the ducal family are there are any descents still alive or did the family line die out?

[Avalon]

Originally Posted by Next Star

What happened to the Duke of Burgundy and the rest of the ducal family are there are any descents still alive or did the family line die out?

Note: At the end there are explanations of some terms that might not be clear from reading the below.


The Duchy of Burgundy 'belonged' to several Houses.

The first Duke of Birgundy was Richard the Justiciar, from the House of Ardennes. After the last descendant of the dynasty, Otto-Henry (the Great) died without male heirs, Burgundy was inherited by his step-son, Otto-Willelm. However in 1004 (?) the Duchy of Burgundy was annexed to the Crown of France by King Robert II of France (Robert was the son of Hugh Capet and Otto-Henry was Hugh Capet's younger brother. Therefore Robert was the legitimate heir.) However though Otto-Willelm was deprived of actual Dukedom of Burgundy, he continuted to reign over the so-called free County of Burgundy. There were 3 counts, if I'm not mistaken, after which it was mered with the Dukedom again.

Robert II belonged to the House of Capet (he was Hugh Capet's son), therefore the second house that 'owned' the Duchy was the Capetian. He was succeded by Henry I, who was also the Duke of Burgundy (and the last Capetian Duke). Robert, aided by his mother, rebelled against Henry and the peace was achieved only when he was given the Dukedom of Burgundy, thus establishing the House of Burgundy.

The last Duke of the House of Burgundy was Philip I, Duke of Burgundy. Philip was not only Duke of Burgundy (inherited from his grandfather) but also Count of Burgundy and Artois (inherited from his grandmother). He married Maragret (heiress of Flanders) however died in the same year (of plague), without heirs.
The Duchy was inherited by the closest living relative (paternal line), King John II of France (the county was inherited by someone else from his maternal line).

After John II inherited the Duchy (1361), the third House gained the possession of it - the House of Valois. The House of Valois owned the Dukedom untill 1482. The last Duke of Burgundy, Charles I the Bold had only 1 surviving daughter, Mary. After his death Mary became the Duchess of Burgundy.

In 1477 Mary was made to sign the charter of rights, called the Great Privilege (?). According to the charter the provinces of Flanders, Brabant, Holland and Hainaut (major parts of Burgundy) retained all the local and community right. Basically the Dukedom of Burgundy stopped existing ever since. Parts of it were annexed by France. Mary retained only small parts of the original Duchy.
She married to Archduke Maximilian of Austria (later Maximilian I, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire). That's how the Low Countries came to the Habsburgs, starting a contention between France and the Habsburghs (later Spain and then Austria) for 3 centuries. The contention reached its highest point during the War of the Spanish Succession.

After Mary's death, Louis XI of France forced Maximilian to agree to the Treaty of Arras, by which Franche Comte and Artois passed to French rule. Later Franche Comte and Artois were changed for the County (not Duchy) of Burgundy and Picardy by the Treaty of Senlis (spelling?).

Basically Mary was the last Duke (Duchess) of the Burgundy. Her son, Philip I of Castile, inherited only the Burgundian Netherlands (though still quite a big part of the former Duchy). His sucessors inherited the Burgundian Netherlands as well until at some point there were divided between and invaded by various countries (France, Netherlands, Germany, Luxembough, Belgium).


Notes:
*Burgundian Netherlands - Union of 17 Provinces, covering (roughly) the current Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourgh and parts of France (and a part of Germany, if I'm not mistaken).
* Low Countires - Historical region of de Nederlanden
* De Nederlanden - not to confuse historical Netherlands (covering most of the Burgundian Netherlands, including Low countires) and current country (which occupies only part of the historical one), the Dutch speakers usually speak of Nederland (singular) for the current country and de Nederlanden for the historic part. In English (roughly) Netherland (or Holland) for the current country, the Netherlands (plural) for the historic one.

[Next Star]

Now who is the head of the house of Orleans I was wondering about that?

[Warren]

Next Star, we already have a thread devoted to that topic, here.

[HRH Kimetha]

Originally Posted by Avalon

The Duchy of Burgundy 'belonged' to several Houses.

Thanks, Avalon, for your indepth discussion on the French royalty of the past and their relationship with other countries/royals.