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  #321  
Old 09-23-2015, 02:43 PM
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It is such a pity to see divisions among the Bourbon descendants.
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  #322  
Old 09-23-2015, 05:34 PM
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Well, the division in the House de Bourbon de Parme will end somewhere because the present ducal family has no male issue and will continue into a side branch and possibly ending the carlist feud for once and for all.

Line of succession to Prince Carlos, the Duke of Parma (with exclusion of the Luxembourg branch)

1. Prince Jaime (1972), son of Prince Carlos-Hugo and of Princess Irene of the Netherlands
2. Prince Sixte-Henri (1940), son of Prince Xavier and of Madeleine des comtes de Bourbon-Busset
3. Prince Michel (1926), son of Prince René and of Princess Margrethe of Denmark
4. Prince Eric (1953), son of Prince Michel and of Princess Yolande de Broglie
5. Prince Michel (1989), son of Prince Eric and of Lydia Countess af Holstein-Ledreborg
6. Prince Henri (1991), son of Prince Eric and of Lydia Countess af Holstein-Ledreborg
7. Prince Charles-Emmanuel (1961), son of Prince Michel and of Princess Yolande de Broglie
8. Prince Amaury (1991), son of Prince Charles-Emmanuel and of Constance des barons de Ravinel
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  #323  
Old 09-24-2015, 04:23 PM
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The "carlist claim" has no future anyway.
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  #324  
Old 09-25-2015, 12:44 AM
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The wives of both the Duke and his brother are still of childbearing age so there maybe a boy or two yet.
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  #325  
Old 09-25-2015, 07:46 AM
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Also Prince Henri-Sixte is an elderly, childless gentleman who is a mere number in the line of succession. With two younger nephews before him in the line he will never succeed to the headship of the house.


How do Prince Michel's descendents view the matter of carlism? Do they agree with Henri-Sixte?
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  #326  
Old 09-25-2015, 06:47 PM
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I think no one, except for some die-hards like Prince Sixte-Henri, takes the Carlist claim au sérieux. When Don Alfonso Carlos de Borbón y Austria-Este, Duke of San Jaime died in 1936, the Carlist line became extinct. Yes, Don Alfonso Carlos had nominated his nephew Prince Xavier de Bourbon de Parme, Duke of Parma, as "Regent of Carlism" but what is that worth? We may assume that most Carlists have accepted that King Alfonso XIII of Spain and his son Don Juan and his grandson Don Juan Carlos were the rightful pretenders to the throne.

For me it is beyond understanding that Prince Xavier and Prince Carlos Hugo have given so much effort to such a chanceless ideal. That Prince Carlos, the present Duke of Parma, still uses Spanish styles is laughable, at the same time we must see this in a tradition. The King of Spain is still Duke of Brabant, the King of the Netherlands is still Viscount of Antwerp, it are all titles of historic patrimonium and not to be taken too serious.
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  #327  
Old 09-26-2015, 07:22 AM
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Very well said and right ! Bravo !
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  #328  
Old 09-26-2015, 07:38 AM
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Did the Royal Dutch Money pay the Carlism claim.?

I remember I was young when Princess irene married without the Consentment of Queen Juliana , renounced to the dutch throne etc... to have a catholic papal wedding in Rome without any dutch royals.

Princess Irène supported her husband 's Carlism claim which ended with Franco's will to have a Bourbon as King of Spain and a divorce for Irène and Carlos.
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  #329  
Old 09-27-2015, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Did the Royal Dutch Money pay the Carlism claim.?

I remember I was young when Princess irene married without the Consentment of Queen Juliana , renounced to the dutch throne etc... to have a catholic papal wedding in Rome without any dutch royals.

Princess Irène supported her husband 's Carlism claim which ended with Franco's will to have a Bourbon as King of Spain and a divorce for Irène and Carlos.
Queen Juliana herself very much consented her daughter's choice of heart. The Government however did not want to bear political responsibility for a member of the Royal House actively involving in obtaining a foreign throne and refused to offer a Bill of Consent for the intended marriage.

And yes, the Château de Lignières became restored and refurbished in the late Sixties/early Seventies (mind you, that is almost 50 years ago now) and rumours stated that it was the rich bride (Princess Irene) who donated the millions, as after all it would become her future family home....
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  #330  
Old 09-27-2015, 10:10 AM
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Picture: baptism of Prince Carlos Xavier Bernardo Sixto Maria de Bourbon de Parme (the current Duke of Parma) in the Château de Lignières. The baptism was executed by Joseph-Charles Cardinal Lefèbvre, Archbishop of Bourges. Look at the ladies in their mantillas with peineta...

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  #331  
Old 09-27-2015, 11:08 AM
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Duc , do you know the reason why they divorced, knowing thet the late Duke of Parma was always welcome to the Royal Dutch Family Events.
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  #332  
Old 09-27-2015, 11:11 AM
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Thanks for the Baptism picture. Queen Juliana was badly informed...

What for a Flag??
Even Monseigneur Lefevre was a contreversal Bishop.
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  #333  
Old 09-27-2015, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Duc , do you know the reason why they divorced, knowing thet the late Duke of Parma was always welcome to the Royal Dutch Family Events.
P.Irene apparently remarked herself about the divorce: "Carlos en ik wilden de wereld verbeteren, maar de tijd was niet rijp. Ons huwelijk ging er aan stuk,"
(English: Carlos and I wanted to improve the world, but the time wasn't right. Our marriage broke up because of it)
source: Bourbon-Parma's kennen wisselende relatie met Oranjes - In Memoriam * Royal Funerals
translation
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  #334  
Old 09-27-2015, 11:51 AM
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The baptism was not done by the Archbishop Marcel Lefèbvre, whom founded the priestly fraternity St Pie X (SSPX) but by his cousin Charles-Joseph Cardinal Lefèbvre, Archbishop of Bourges.

The flag on the background looks like a military banner, possibly used in one of the battles of the Carlist Wars.
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  #335  
Old 09-27-2015, 12:16 PM
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Thanks for correcting the name of the Archbischop.....
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  #336  
Old 09-27-2015, 02:55 PM
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Video of the baptism at the Château de Lignières. Prince Carlos Hugo -the father- had the French nationality at that moment. He only became a Spanish citizen in 1978, so this fits in the thread of French royals.

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  #337  
Old 01-28-2016, 08:34 AM
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Princess Hélène of Orleans celebrated her 15th birthday earlier this week. SH eis the aughter of the duke and duchess of Chartres. Régine Salens posted a lovely photo of the princess on her blog noblesse et royautes:

Les 15 ans d'Hélène d'Orléans - Noblesse & Royautés
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  #338  
Old 02-14-2016, 04:03 AM
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Are there any male ancestors alive today? I worked for a beginning producer in the late 90's, he wore a ring with a family crest on it & he said it was from his mother's side. I pressured him about his history & he was very secretive. We traveled a lot and I knew he had come from serious money. The most I could get out of him was that he had roots in France, he was Roman Catholic & his mother had died. He would be in his middle to late 40's today. I've searched & searched for his name & I can't find a thing. I don't think he used his "real" name although the name I knew him by is listed on IMDB. Just in case somebody reading this can think of something or will want a little more, I can say his first name (which is probably his true first name) is Michael. He divides his time between LA & NY. (And Europe?) Any ideas? TIA.


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  #339  
Old 02-14-2016, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Magdalene View Post
Are there any male ancestors alive today? I worked for a beginning producer in the late 90's, he wore a ring with a family crest on it & he said it was from his mother's side. I pressured him about his history & he was very secretive. We traveled a lot and I knew he had come from serious money. The most I could get out of him was that he had roots in France, he was Roman Catholic & his mother had died. He would be in his middle to late 40's today. I've searched & searched for his name & I can't find a thing. I don't think he used his "real" name although the name I knew him by is listed on IMDB. Just in case somebody reading this can think of something or will want a little more, I can say his first name (which is probably his true first name) is Michael. He divides his time between LA & NY. (And Europe?) Any ideas? TIA.


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The descendants of the Bourbons are called Les Capétiens (from La Maison capétienne) and there are a LOT still existing. So your question: "Are there still male ancestors alive today?"..... phew..... so many!

These are the still existing main branches of the House of Capet with their current heads:

Bourbon-Busset
(1438)
--> House of Bourbon-Busset (1438) - Charles de Bourbon, Comte de Busset (*1945)
----> House of Bourbon-Châlus (1849) - Philippe de Bourbon, Comte de Châlus (*1942)

Bragança (1442)
--> House of Portugal (1640) - Duarte Pio de Bragança, Duke of Bragança (*1945)

Cadaval (1645)
--> House of Cadaval (1645) - Diana Álvares Pereira de Melo, Duchess of Cadaval (*1978)

Orléans (1661)
--> House of Orléans (1661) - Henri d'Orléans, Comte de Paris (*1933)
----> House of Orléans-Bragança (1814) - headship disputed
-------> House of Brazil (1822) - headship disputed
----> House of Orléans-Galliera (1824) - Alfonso de Orleans-Borbón y Ferrara-Pignatelli, Duke of Galliera (*1968)

Anjou (1700)
--> House of Bourbon-Anjou (1700) - Luis Alfonso de Borbón y Martínez Bordiú (*1974)
----> House of Spain (1933) - Felipe de Borbón y Grecia, King of Spain (*1968)
--> House of Bourbon-Parma (1748) - Prince Carlos de Bourbon de Parme, Duke of Parma (*1970)
----> House of Luxembourg (1964) - Prince Henri de Nassau, Grand-Duke of Luxembourg (*1955)
--> House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1751) - headship disputed
--> House of Bourbon-Sevilla (1823) - Francisco de Borbón y Escasany (*1967)
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  #340  
Old 02-14-2016, 07:48 AM
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Well done Duke ,
Cadaval, the Duchess has 2 daughters, which one will be the heiress.
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