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  #301  
Old 09-22-2015, 06:10 AM
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Well even if it is commonly acknowledged today by many people that the marriage that started the Busset line was canonically valid it was both at the time and up till today wasn't so by tradition Louis Alphonse has the role as Aine des Capetiens. If we were to include the Bussets we could might as well include the House of Braganza who although illegitimate in descent have an unbroken male-line descent from King Robert the Pious, himself son of the dynasty's founder King Hugh.

Sorry Duc, realised as soon as I had posted that you're pointing to the fact that the children of Queen Isabella II is quite certainly not the children of her husband.

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  #302  
Old 09-22-2015, 01:15 PM
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It was Prince Henri d'Orléans himself who remarked that those who love to rank the Capétiens according seniority, can not claim that Luis Alfonso is the ainé des capétiens because the Bourbon-Bussets are an example of descendants in the House of Capet with more seniority.

So three claims are discutable:

Luis Alfonso is the ainé des capétiens. No, there are more senior capets.

Luis Alfonso is the ainé of the Spanish royal capétiens. No, he does not belong to a royal Capet line since his grandfather renounced his Spanish rights for himself and his descendants.

Luis Alfonso is the ainé of the French royal capétiens. No, he does not belong to a royal Capet line since his forebearer Philippe d'Anjou renounced his French rights for himself and his descendants.
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  #303  
Old 09-22-2015, 01:41 PM
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I've always found the Bourbons very confusing- all this constant bickering and infighting and added to that they seem to have intermarried more than the Pharaohs did. Not unusual to find people with four grandparents from the family or even up to 7 great-grandparents.

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  #304  
Old 09-22-2015, 05:47 PM
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They (or at least some of them) have oftem reminded me the good old remark that "power wears out those who don't have it".
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  #305  
Old 09-22-2015, 06:10 PM
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They (or at least some of them) have oftem reminded me the good old remark that "power wears out those who don't have it".

True even if wasn't exactly a harmonious family relationship they had at Versailles and Palais Royale it's nothing against how it turned out after the fall of the Second Empire.


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  #306  
Old 09-22-2015, 06:18 PM
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Well, at least the present Bourbon / Orleans family members never voted to condemn another family member to death, so that could be considered a step in the right direction. Let's hope that relations continue to improve. I was surprised to see the Duke and Duchess of Chartres at the meeting.

Surprisingly the meeting was organised by a Lobcowicz and that had none of the heads of the various branches there. I believe the prince Lobcowicz did attend one (or more) of the Parma weddings recently, so the relationship must be cordial. Though I doubt his mother will be warmly regarded by the Dutch Parma princes.

Anyway, let's hope that by 2268 the family will have sorted their troubles as they celebrate their millenium in that year.
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  #307  
Old 09-22-2015, 06:31 PM
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Well, at least the present Bourbon / Orleans family members after the revolution never voted to condemn another family member to death, so that could be considered a step in the right direction. Let's hope that relations continue to improve. I was surprised to see the Duke and Duchess of Chartres at the meeting.

Surprisingly the meeting was organised by a Lobcowicz and that had none of the heads of the various branches there. I believe the prince Lobcowicz did attend one (or more) of the Parma weddings recently, so the relationship must be cordial. Though I doubt his mother will be warmly regarded by the Dutch Parma princes.

Why? What did she do?


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  #308  
Old 09-22-2015, 06:35 PM
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I've always found the Bourbons very confusing- all this constant bickering and infighting and added to that they seem to have intermarried more than the Pharaohs did. Not unusual to find people with four grandparents from the family or even up to 7 great-grandparents.

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That is true but all the royal and non-royal Bourbons together, from France, Spain, Parma, the Sicilies, etc formed a wide pool. When Xavier de Bourbon de Parme married Madeleine de Bourbon-Busset (grandparents of the current Duke of Parma), it sounds close: two Bourbons marrying, but their consanguity was very remote.
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  #309  
Old 09-23-2015, 06:46 AM
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My understanding of French is limited, but from the what I did understand of the interview with the Prince of Lobkowicz, I think that the meeting had a lot to do with promoting the region and the castle. The Prince of Lobkowicz is the only family member who still owns a castle that originates from the Bourbon family, so he invited his relatives. But most of the around 400 guests seem to have been officials, politicians and other important people from the region. So I assume that the meeting was not so much about the family, bringing the branches together or family politics, etc. So that explains why it was a Lobkowicz to head the whole event, and why the heads of the different branches did not attend.
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  #310  
Old 09-23-2015, 06:57 AM
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Tillia,
The Prince of Lobkowitz , is the only surviving Son of Princess Françoise . His two brothers died in tragic circumstances. I don't know if he is Royal Highness ?

There is hate since such a long time between Françoise and Sixte for the late Duc of Parma, his Children and their Sisters. No show up of them , they were not invited.

Prince Sixte owns the chateau of Lignières who will go to Princess Françoise Son , the Prince of L. Who hosted the party.
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  #311  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:33 AM
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Why? What did she do?


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The problems between the Bourbon-Parmas started when, in the 1960-1970s, Duke Carlos Hugo, with the support of his younger sisters Marie Therese, Cécile and Marie des Neiges, promoted a "socialist" change in the politics of the Carlist movement; such change was opposed by Sixte Henri and by Princess Françoise, a well as by their mother Madeleine.
The result is that in the past 40 years the family is split, with no contacts between the two parties (with the exception, it seems, of Prince Charles Henri Lobkowicz, who attended some of his cousins' weddings in recent years).

A pity IMO, since - typical of the Bourbons - they are fighting over nothing.
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  #312  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:38 AM
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Well, at least the present Bourbon / Orleans family members never voted to condemn another family member to death, so that could be considered a step in the right direction.
Hopefully you're right, but who knows what would have happened if they had retained the power to inflict death sentences...
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Old 09-23-2015, 08:41 AM
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Tillia,
The Prince of Lobkowitz , is the only surviving Son of Princess Françoise . His two brothers died in tragic circumstances. I don't know if he is Royal Highness ?
The Princes Lobkowics are styled Serene Highnesses (with the only exception, I believe, of Princess Françoise, who is a Royal Highness).
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  #314  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:57 AM
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Prince Charles of Lobkovicz is past 50, unmarried and has no children. He has only one surviving sibling, who is a nun. So there are no nieces and nephews. His only cousins on the Bourbon-Parma side are the children of Prince Carlos-Hugo, whom his mother detested so much. So I wonder who will inherit the estate.
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  #315  
Old 09-23-2015, 09:01 AM
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Indeed MAfan ,
If you are born Royal Highness you keep the tittle for your whole life.
There are a lot of exemples , SA le Prince Michel de Ligne, SAR le Princesse Michel de Ligne, le Comte Rodolphe de Limburg Stirum, SAR et I la Comtesse Rodolphe de Limburg -Stirum etc...
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  #316  
Old 09-23-2015, 09:06 AM
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Princess Irene 's Children did rich Weddings .
They know they will never inherit the Lignière Castle.
the Castle will return to the Bourbon Busset
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  #317  
Old 09-23-2015, 09:12 AM
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Since 1789 the French Bourbons, and their collateral branches have been unfit to manage so much as 'a whelk stall'...
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  #318  
Old 09-23-2015, 12:19 PM
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Princess Irene 's Children did rich Weddings .
They know they will never inherit the Lignière Castle.
the Castle will return to the Bourbon Busset
I am not sure if the partners of the Dutch De Bourbon de Parmes qualify as "rich", only Albert Brenninkmeijer can be qualified as such.

Prince Carlos married Anne-Marie Gualthérie van Weezel. Her father was an ambassador. The family is definitely not too "pauvre".

Princess Margarita married Tjalling ten Cate, who works as a corporate laywer at a private equity firm. His father was a director of a newspaper.

Prince Jaime de Bourbon de Parme married Viktória Cservanyák, a corporate lawyer at Rabobank. Her father was a specialist in nuclear medics.

Princess Maria Carolina de Bourbon de Parme married Albert Brenninkmeijer, from the wealthiest family of the Netherlands.

I think that the first three can not pay for the upkeep of Lignières - if one of them would get this from uncle Prince Sixte-Henri. Unless there are enough millions in the Lys Fund, the financial vehicle of the Dutch De Bourbon de Parmes. And possibly their mother Princess Irene will have a few millons too: from her grandmother Queen Wilhelmina, her mother Queen Juliana and her father Prince Bernhard.
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Old 09-23-2015, 01:16 PM
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Well explaned , but Uncle Sixte Henri will prefer ?? for Lignières not the on carlos Children. Is Lignières actually such a great Castle ??
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  #320  
Old 09-23-2015, 02:15 PM
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Yes, Lignières is a fantastic castle in almost original state since François Le Veau constructed it 350 years ago. The Association François Le Veau, the Monuments de France and the municipality have ordered a study and a plan to restore the building. Some salons have been restored but the main work is still awaiting permission from "Paris" (Département de Culture). In good state, it is a truly fantastic castle in the wonderful Loire-et-Cher region, but also a burden.

Here the Château

Here a picture of never-ending works

Here a picture of one of the salons.

Here Prince Sixte-Henri de Bourbon de Parme in one of his salons.

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