Rival Claimants to the French Throne 1: Ending 2020

[EmpressRouge]

Oh, thank you for this info.

If my memory is correct, his mother is a daughter or a granddaughter of General Franco. Do they live with them ? I read somewhere that, though they are related, the king of Spain was not so keen on Luis Alfonso but is this true ?

Oh, this summer in Palma, I saw the Queen Sofia and her family ! I think Mrs Obama was there, too.

Yes, Luis Alfonso's mother, Carmen, is a maternal granddaughter of Franco. King Juan Carlos has frosty relations with L-A and his family partially because
1) JC supports the Orleans branch as claimants to the French throne
2) L-A signed his name as Anjou (as in Duke of Anjou), a title which has been a point of contention between the Legistimists and Orleans pretenders.
3) After Carmen married L-A's father, JC and Sofia had to be extra nice to the couple (even though Franco had already named JC as the next king) for fear of upsetting Franco.

 

[iamtheoneandonly]

Oh, thank you for your explanations re: my questions.

1) Oh, in that case, Juan Carlos supports Le Comte de Paris, then ? I wonder why ? If I am correct, the King is related to both Louis Alphonse and le Comte.
3) Oh, I see, but now the King does not like Louis Alphonse because he claims to be the Head of the House of Bourbon in France. That sounds rather opportunistic.

 

[EmpressRouge]

1) Oh, in that case, Juan Carlos supports Le Comte de Paris, then ? I wonder why ? If I am correct, the King is related to both Louis Alphonse and le Comte.

Yes, Juan Carlos was first cousin to Louis Alphonse's father, both being grandsons in the male-line of King Alfonso XIII and Queen Victoria Eugenia. JC's maternal grandmother was Louise of Orleans, a daughter of Philippe and Marie Isabelle, Comte and Comtesse de Paris. Marie Isabelle was also an Orleans (the couple were first cousins) and an Infanta of Spain, her mother being the younger sister of Isabella II.

 

[iamtheoneandonly]

Thank you for your message.
Do you, in that case, happen to know why the King of Spain supports le Comte but not le Duc d'Anjou ? It puzzles me.

 

[EmpressRouge]

Thank you for your message.

Do you, in that case, happen to know why the King of Spain supports le Comte but not le Duc d'Anjou ? It puzzles me.

I don't know the answer to that question, but someone else on the forums might know? It is strange because most royal houses do support Louis-Alphonse and given the Orleans family feuds and squabbles over money in the last few decades, L-A has increasing support. My best guess is that it has do with his parents designs for the throne for themselves that has carried over.

 

[iamtheoneandonly]

Oh, I see. Well, you may be right re: your analysis. Maybe, the King of Spain wanted to go along with whatever has been said about the Orleans as the rightful heir to the office of the King of France (or the French). Anyway, thank you very much.

 

[Kasumi]

The Count of Paris makes HM the King Juan Carlos angry claiming all Spanish Bourbones 'illegitime' - Vanitatis
I understand the Count was reffering the Prince Louis Alfonso's rights to the throne of France, but still it was not a wise statement...

 

[Warren]

The Comte de Paris has questioned the legitimacy of the Spanish Bourbons (and Luis Alfonso) by stating that Queen Maria Luisa, consort of Carlos IV (reigned 1788-1808) had an affair with Manuel de Godoy. Thus he is negating the royal legitimacy of Carlos & Maria Luisa's son, King Fernando VII and his descendants.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

I believe that it's time for equal primogeniture, and we should go back to Charlemagne and find a new line.

 

[Fürstin Taxis]

Agree PrincessKaimi! A new line please.

 

[maria-olivia]

The actual Count of Paris should never speak about the legitimacy of a King of Spain.

 

[la_noblesse]

@PrincessKaimi Why yes, a new blood line! Alea iacta est, the die has been cast.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

And, this legitimacy business is really quite comical. Shall we exhume all the monarchs we can and do paternity/maternity testing?

They found that the Last Danish King of Old Denmark was not really his mother's son, even though they are buried near each other and marked as kin.

If all descendants of all royals (legitimate or not; male or female; firstborn or not) were put into the hopper as possible contenders for current thrones, oh what a contest that would be.

(I'm picturing a joint descendant of Charlemagne and Genghis Khan laying claim to everything! And since there are probably several, they'd have to contest it out, perhaps in gladitorial style).

 

[JeTe]

Which French throne? There is no throne here anymore, thank god. :-D I guess my fellows rather laugh at this "Count of Paris". Even the title is an insult for us. He should give up on it.

 

[p_caspian]

I firmly believe that the legitimists are the rightful heir to the throne of the Kingdom of France headed by His Royal Highness Prince Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou as for the Bonaparte side I firmly believe that Jean Christophe, Prince Napoleon is the head and rightful heir the to the Imperial Throne of France as the Emperor of the French.

 

[Kasumi]

Beatrice of Orleans: "If Louis Alfonso wants to entertain staging his coronation, let it be"
Article in Vanitatis in Spanish
English translation

 

[NotHRH]

Which French throne? There is no throne here anymore, thank god. :-D I guess my fellows rather laugh at this "Count of Paris". Even the title is an insult for us. He should give up on it.

I was wondering the same thing - what French throne? Why do the claimants to various 'thrones' throughout Europe give up returning to a throne that simply does not exists? Under what circumstances are the various members of these dethroned families are able to still refer to themselves as 'prince' and 'princess,' 'duke/duchess,' etc. Their titles exist only in their mind and sometimes out of courtesy. What exactly are many of these people trying to prove to the world? Or simply to themselves? What purpose do they serve anyway?
For instance, again, there is no throne in France, Russia, Serbia, Greece, etc. I do realize that the now-defunct royal family f Greece are considered prince/ss of Denmark, by why are the 'Prince/ss of Greece' titles still used to refer to these people? As for the 'French' throne, it does not exists anymore - what will it take for these family members to give up returning to idea that died out a very long time ago? I see all ex-royals as 'pitiful beggars!' Contrary to a belief, they do not have a GOD-given right to anything.

 

[Warren]

Please do not conduct personal arguments in the threads.
Such posts have been and will continue to be deleted.

Warren
Administrator

 

[Grandduchess24]

Isn't there a feud between like 4-5 guys who have some way claimants to the non existing throne of France , I know that king Juan Carlos I of Spain is out eventhough a decendent of Phillip V, a grandson? Of king Louis XIV

The feuding pretenders to the "throne " of France :
Monarchy ended 24 February 1848
(Royal Monarchy)
4 September 1870
(Imperial Monarchy)
Current pretender Disputed
Prince Louis
(House of Bourbon)
Prince Henri
(House of Orléans)
Jean Christophe
(House of Bonaparte)

 

[Renata4711]

If I had a choice between the Pretenders, I would choose Henri d'Orléans - or rather his son, the Duc de Vendome.

Not to mention little Gaston...

 

[Lenora]

It's very difficult choice and decision since a lot of disputes held on the topic.
The Duke of Anjou and the nephew of Count of Paris married a Portuguese Duchess of Cadaval ,so he gave her the status of princess upon marriage.When Philip V became the king of Spain,he renounced the right of his descendants to the French throne,so therefore the Burbons are not the Bourbons do not seem to be the true heirs to the throne of France ,but the Orleans who are the descendants of the last king of France.
I do not understand the disputes between the supposed claimants,as I highly doubt France will become a monarchy again,though I wish it would be nice to see it restored

 

[maria-olivia]

No-one in France believes in a Restoration.
The Heirs of two families will battle their whole life for ??
The actual Comte de Paris should have given to Charles Louis the tittle of Duke de Nemours. The former Duke died without children was close to Prince Michel and Beatrice d'Evreux/Orléans.
There will only one Duc d' Anjou, the late Duke of Cadiz 's son.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Forgive me if this has already been answered but this is a long thread and I can't read it all.
Are there two "Royal Families" of France because one is descended from the family of Louis XVI and the other is descended from the family of Napoleon?

 

[MAfan]

There are three claimants to the French Throne, and thus three "royal families":
1. Luis Alfonso, "Duke of Anjou"; he's a descendant from Philippe, Duke of Anjou, who renounced his claims to the French Throne to become King Felipe V of Spain in 1700; Luis Alfonso's supporters claim that Felipe V's renounciation was invalid, and thus Luis Alfonso is the legitimate Heir to the French Throne;
2. Henri, Count of Paris, descendant from King Louis Philippe I (of Orleans); if Felipe V's renounciation is valid, he is the legitimate Heir to the Throne;
3. Jean Christophe, Prince Napoleon.

 

[Renata4711]

I'm only joking, but....

Would it be an idea to have a TV show in which the three French pretenders have to "perform" in order to win the "throne" ?

If that's too boring a format, why not add "Madame Guillotine" at certain moments ?

 

[Cory]

Philippe Egalitè and his son betrayed the French Royal Family and were in favour of two Revolutions (1789 and 1830) but I suppose we can't blame for example the Duke of Vendome for what these two ancestors of him had done.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I read that one of the claimants of the Russian throne also betrayed the royal family during the revolution. I tend to believe that if you betray the current monarch and his family, that you renounce your claim to the throne then and as a result your descendants have no claim.

 

[Cory]

The enemis of Prince Louis-Alphonse de Bourbon say his maternal ancestor was Francisco Franco y Bahamonde, forgetting that the count of Paris' ancestor was Philippe Egalitè.

 

[Lenora]

Nearly the same situation regarding claimants to the throne is in Russia as well,the main reason of disputes is that the last monarchs do not have any surviving children(Russia case) or ancestors(France case).But it seems to me Louis XIV and Louis XV have many descendants.
I wonder if in France the title of "Prince of Conde" still exists.

 

[Cory]

The Princes of Orleans are not descendants of the last King of France because the last King of France was Charles X.
Louis-Philippe ( the regicide's son) was a sort of usurpateur and he didn't have the title of King of France.