Prince Jean, Duke of Vendôme: engagement & pre-wedding info - Nov 2008 / May 2009


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On the French Forum "Noblesse et Royautés" they published to-day a great picture of the Duchess de Montpensier , born Duchess Marie Thérèse of Wurtenberg , with her son Jean and his Fiancée.
The date of the Wedding still remains on May the 2th at the Cathedral of Senlis and the Party will take place at Chantilly's Castle.
Why they change Churches and Castles , I don't know. It seems not be easy .
In this Forum they also sais that the Fiancée received 3 rings, one belonging to the late Comtesse de Paris, one present of Jean which was not ready for the engagement and one from her Father.

I saw also the same picture to-day on Stephane Berne's Forum and the date of the 2nd of May for the Wedding.
 
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Thank you for the link maria-olivia.
It will be a beautiful wedding, no doubt about it.
Chantilly is a very nice castle. Good choice and symbolic place for the Orléans ; Henri, duke d'Aumale, ancestor of Jean duke de Vendôme, lived in.
 
Nice photo on the site thank you... I love the Duchess de Montpensier's dignity
 
I have merged the new "wedding thread" into this thread.
The real Wedding thread will be located in the Royal Weddings Forum and won't be opened until much closer to the event (which is over three months away).
 
Hein Bruins has done some genealogical research after the Steinhart family (maternal family of the future Duchess of Vendome) and has placed the information on his website.

Click here for the list of descendants of Franz Edler von Steinhart and Maria Martin.
 
Definitely Senlis and Chantilly for the second of may. Senlis is one the most charming and ancient city of France; There is a whole medieval town and some ruins of the castle where the first capetian kings used to live. Before year 1000 it was one of the main city of the small domains of the capetiens kings; So it is definitely a come back to the origin of the dynasty. Chantilly speaks for itself, the place is amazingly beautiful.
About the ring, the bride to be has not received her engagment ring yet, allthough she did receive a pearl and diamond ring from her father; There was also another ring given to her by a member of the family as a gift, it comes from the orléans family but it has nothing to do with the late comtesse de Paris. Her own engagement ring now belongs to one of her daughters. And the other ones she used to wear, mainly emeralds, belong to her other daughters.
Apparently, most of the royal families of Europe, spain, portugal, italy, greece, romania, yougoslvia, bulgaria, austria, belgium, luxembourg, Monaco, Liechtenstein... will be invited. As well as all the members of the very extensive Orléans family. So it seems it is going to be a very grand wedding after all.
 
I am happy to know that the late Comtesse de Paris engagement ring belongs to one of her daughters.. so it remains in the family.
 
Will Luis Alfonso de Bourbon and his wife Maria Margarita be invited to the wedding?
 
Thank you for the information vincent!

A picture of Chantilly: click here.
Aerial view of Senlis: click here.

I am glad to see that the wedding will be a high profile one after all, something to look forward to! I wonder if the Orleans family can show some unity on thios occassion or that half of the family stays away again.

Apart from the rings do you know what tiara's this branch of the family still has abvailable? The Coty tiara and the tiara of the monarchic associasion?
 
Marie-Thérèse may have a Wurtemberg tiara ?? I don't know if she has still one because Marie d' Orléans her daughter wore on her wedding a tiara lent from her aunt Sophie of Wurtenberg.
Was this because the wedding did not take place at Dreux as wished by the Count de Paris?
 
Marengo said:
Thank you for the information vincent!

A picture of Chantilly: click here.
Aerial view of Senlis: click here.

I am glad to see that the wedding will be a high profile one after all, something to look forward to! I wonder if the Orleans family can show some unity on thios occassion or that half of the family stays away again.

Apart from the rings do you know what tiara's this branch of the family still has abvailable? The Coty tiara and the tiara of the monarchic associasion?
Click to expand...

A few eeeks ago there was a discussion about the Orléans Jewels on the Royal Jewels MB but it is already gone. According to it the Duchess of Montpensier owns a tiara she was given for her Wedding and the Comte de Paris owns a diamond comb tiara. All the other pieces which belonged to the late Comtesse de Paris are no owned by her other daughters or sons.

I hope that at this Wedding more Family members will turn up then at the Wedding of Charles-Philippe and Diane in Summer where nobody from the Württembergs attended and also a few others of his aunts or their descendants.
 
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The main problem around all these questions, Marengo, is that one tries to give exact informations all the time. Then, there are things that one knows for sure, but which are private matters, therefore one can't really get into details.
So let's be simple, all i can say is that the two tiaras you are refering to are still in the family and that i am sure the future duchesse de vendôme will wear one on her wedding day, but it may be a surprise. I won't say more untill the wedding. I can also say, because it is public and was published at the time of her own wedding , that the duchesse de Montpensier was given a Mellerio saphirs and diamonds necklace-tiara by the french monarchists. There might also be another surprise piece of jewelry. The only thing i can really say about the late comtesse de Paris's jewelry is what i saw : princesse Claude wearing her mother's diamond rivière, princesse Chantal wearing her huge diamond cross brooch and princess Helène wearing her pearl necklace (she also wore it at the hasbourg Limbourg Stirum wedding)
Talking about the dress, i am absolutely sure it will be gorgeous, but it will remain a secret untill the wedding day.
Talking about the invitations, i know that all members of the extended orléans family will be invited and, this is purely a guess, i don't see the wurtemberg family not coming to THAT wedding. After all prince Jean is the heir, his mother is a wurtemberg princess, and furthermore he is the duke of wurtemberg's godson.
Talking about Luis Alfonso beeing invited, all i know is that all members of the bourbon family, Spain, Parma and Luxembourg and Naples, will be invited.
There might also be a big surprise coming from Maroc as prince Jean knows the king personnaly and the two families have known each other for three generations and more, don't forget one king of Maroc asked to marry one of Louis the 14th daughters.
Sorry to sound so secret, but i can only say what i am allowed to say, after all this is their wedding and the surprise will be greater on the wedding day.
 
Sorry Maria Olivia i forgot to answer your question; I think that the changes in places were mainly dictated by the fact that amboise, allthough it is beautiful, is really a bit fahr from Paris and an airport , not very convenient for guest to arrive in time on the wedding day. Talking about Dreux,it is beautiful but really small for a wedding. On a more personnal level i think prince Jean likes Chantilly very much. And both places are about 15 kilometers from Paris charle de Gaulle airport. Important guest on the wedding day will be able to fly very easily. I guess these are the only reasons.
 
Thanks a lot Vincent for your explanation, now I undertand.
May I ask you which tiara Marie Therese , then Comtesse de Clermont,was wearing on the family picture taken at the pre-wedding party of Karl of W and Diane d' O ?
This family picture is important because the late Prince François was still alive..
The whole Orléans story would have changed if he did not die in Algerie..
 
She is wearing the saphirs, pearls and diamond tiara which was part of the secoond parure of queen marie amélie sold in geneva in 199 something; By the way i don't think i ever complimented you on the box you bought at bthe auction; Well done;
I hope i am not making a mistake and you are the same maria olivia
 
Yes , that's me.
in november I went to Christies/Paris to put my royal box representing the new born Duc de Bordeaux (1820) .On the box it is written "Henri, prie pour la France "
He was the very last Bourbon and this was sold on the Orleans auction !

I was very surprised I had the item because it was sold 1.250 euros. In the catalogue there was a picture mistake for the 3 boxes.. I noticed that when Christies gave me the certificate , the picture was right but not its description. I imagine that due to this the buyer cancelled his item and I was the best after him and did not pay so much. When I received this unexpected letter from Christies I was so happy. Afterwards I sent them a fax and in their answer they ended : respectueusement !
 
Thank you for your replies vincent! I would not consider secretive but discreet, still the parts of information that you do give are interesting to know. It seems we have a mystery tiara to look forward to, which is usually the best. Do you know if they will have pre-wedding festivities that will be in full gala (tiara's and such) as at several Wurttemberg weddings?

About the Luis Alfonso and Maria Margarita of Borbon, I think prince Jean, his fiancee and the couple were recently pictured together at Versailles, so the relations must be cordial enoguh. Still if the othe duke and duchess of Anjou receive an invitation it might lead to an embarrasing situation.

I hope the duke of Parma will be well enough to attend btw.
 
Marengo said:
About the Luis Alfonso and Maria Margarita of Borbon, I think prince Jean, his fiancee and the couple were recently pictured together at Versailles, so the relations must be cordial enoguh. Still if the othe duke and duchess of Anjou receive an invitation it might lead to an embarrasing situation.
Click to expand...
Sure! But there is only one true duke d'Anjou and it's Luis Alfonso de Bourbon, not Charles-Philippe d'Orléans. The count de Paris gave him this title but he had no right to do that.
 
Oh my ---
I have always thought that since the split between the old Comte de Paris and his wife in the 1990's that the family (grown children) was also divided.
At family weddings, there would usually be the old Comtesse and not the Comte and vice-versa. Also, this seemed to pertain to the children.
This is a shame. I think that maybe there was a reunion of sorts at the memorial Mass in Paris for the old Comtesse.
It will be interesting to see just who shows up for this wedding.
 
To tell you the truth at some point we were (christie's people and me as i was a consultant on that auction) a bit lost considering all the aspects of that collection; We had to try to organise the catalogue and there were so many small items we had to make lots. Apparently we made a mistake on one of them and you benefited from it, that is nice( i don't know the exact story).
Appart from all that has been said on this board concerning that auction (Why ? It is sad... and so on...), i must say that it remains a very happy memory for me as i was lucky to spend three months with these objects and then the all mood of the event was really nice, polite and friendly. Not to mention my own personal acquisition.
You can say all you want about the orléans family, but i must admit that all of them are interesting and very well educated people.
 
sorry, i forgot to say that the last post was an answer to maria olivia's question; As for your question Marengo, i do not think there will be any official gala before the actual wedding. Or if there is, it will be private.
 
Here is another article about the wedding in the newspaper Le Courrier picard : Le Courrier picard - Mariage royal en la cathédrale - Info régionale - Actualités - Votre actualité quotidienne locale, régionale et nationale - Information Picardie, Somme, Oise, Aisne

The journalist doesn't know much about the french royalty ; he says that Jean de France is the direct descendant of the duchess of Berry and king Charles X. It's totally wrong. He is the direct descendant of king Louis-Philippe yes, but absolutly not of king Charles X who has no descendants since Henri the count of Chambord. His descendance is extincted.
And he says that Philomena de Tornos' grandfather was Juan de Tornos ; FATHER of king of Spain Juan Carlos! Incredible!! Juan de Tornos was the responsible for the secretary's office of Juan de Borbon, count of Barcelona, in exile in Estoril at this time.
 
But there are descendants in the female line of the Duke and Duchess of Berry. Their daughter Louise married Duke Carlo III. of Parma and they had children.
 
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Oh sorry! You are right!
Jean de France's maternal grandmother the Archduchess Rosa of Austria, wife of Philipp Duke of Württemberg, was the daughter of Peter Ferdinand, Granduke of Toscana. Peter was the son of Ferdinand IV of Toscana and Alice of Bourbon Parma. Alice was the daughter of Charles III, Duke of Parma and Louise Marie de France. Louise Marie was the daughter of Ferdinand, Duke of Berry, son of king Charles X.
It's a bit complicated! lol
 
Thanks. Only now after you say so i realize that Prince Jean is a descendant of Charles X. through his maternal grandmother. I wanted only to point out that there are descendants of Charles X.
 
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And a descendant also of Henri V , Duc de Bordeaux , Comte de Chambord..cqfd..
 
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