Luis Alfonso de Bourbon and Family (Duke and Duchess of Anjou) 2: November 2008-

[MAfan]

In Bourbon Family rules Salic Law, so the headship can be carried only by males.
Juan Carlos and Luis Alfonso are not only descendants by Isabel II, but also by her husband King Francisco. Francisco was the eldest son of King Ferdinando VII's youngest brother, Francisco de Paula; between them was Carlos, the first Carlist claimant.
In 1936 the last male line descendant of Carlos died, therefore the next male heir was the eldest male line descendant of Francisco de Paula: King Alfonso XIII.

[loyalsubject]

Oh I see, thank you so much for the clarification!!!

So he really is the Duke of Anjou... That was really bad taste what the Orleanists did asigning the duke of anjou to their branch.

[MAfan]

He is really the Duke of Anjou if the renounciation of King Felipe V of Spain to his rights to the French Throne isn't valid, he isn't if this renounciations is valid.
Since the Orleans consider this renounciation valid - this is the ground after which they can claim to be the Heirs to the French Throne - their head, the Count of Paris, as Head of the French Royal Family can give titles to the members of his family as he prefers; as Head of the French RF it's his right, as well as if Luis Alfonso was Head of the French Royal House he could do.

[Thribette]

In fact, even if Felipe V's renounciations had been valid, their text is absolutely clear and repeats it several times : all Felipe V's descendants would be exclude from the French throne, which means that after Louis-Philippe, "King of the French", who died in 1850, the Orléans branch (as they all descend from Louis-Philippe's wife princess Maria Amalia de Borbone Due Sicilie, a descendant of Felipe V's) would have also been excluded. Even the Napoléon family descend from him since the end of XIXth century...
So, trying to argue that this renounciation was valid, only deserves orleanist pretentions.
May I advise the remarkable site of an orleanist, François Velde? His site is Heraldica.

Thank you very much for the links, Frank22!

[crm2317]

Shouldn't be long before the arrival of the royal twins! Spring 2010 I believe. Can't wait to hear news of this family

[rominet09]

I wonder about the babies... when exactly are they due ?

[sjetajiem]

End of the spring (fin de verano).
It means somewhere in June, but with twins you have a marge of three weeks earlier.
I think they will arrive at the end of May.

[rominet09]

Thank you I was wondering if something had happened

[Biri]

Originally Posted by sjetajiem

End of the spring (fin de verano).
I think they will arrive at the end of May.

But "verano" means summer in Spanish...
So maybe they are due in September?

[Melibea]

^^
Nope, they are due in the end of spring
"Los duques de Anjou tienen el placer de comunicar que esperan mellizos para finales de la primavera próxima."
Hola

[loyalsubject]

Mafan, Thanks again for the clarification. I still don't understand why some would say he is not the Duke of Anjou unless it's a title exclusively tied to the french crown? So therefore it can only be carried by the head of the french royal house (Orleanists) and not by the senior chief of the entire Bourbons (Luis Alfonso)?
I see this as the only impediment to him claiming the Duke of Anjou because I do believe the renunciation of King Felipe V of Spain IS valid, but as far as I know he renounced the throne for his heirs, NOT the headship of the family.

I also understand his grandfather Jaime abdicated the spanish throne, but not necessarily the headship of the family right?
So isn't the head of the entire Bourbons always by default the Duke of Anjou regardless if they hold thrones or not?

[MAfan]

It is difficult to say if the headship of the family is necessarily linked to the claims to the throne or not; but however, even if he is the head of the whole Bourbon Family, this doesn't mean that he can decide to use whichever title connected to the House; he can use the title of Duke of Anjou only if the claimant King of France allows him to use the title (as well as, for example, Archduke Karl of Austria is the Head of Habsburg Family, but he can't create himself Prince of Tuscany).

Usually, when a King (or a claimant) renounces to a Throne (or to his claims), he renounces also to the Headship of his house; otherwise, the situation would be pretty ridicolous, with an ex-King as powerless Head of a Royal Family...

Moreover, Felipe V renounced to his pretensions, rights and titles to the French Throne; and I guess this includes also the title granted him as French Prince, therefore also the title of Duke of Anjou.

[loyalsubject]

I see, wow MAfan your knowledge knows no bounds.

I just feel sorry for the guy because it seems that the whole family feels the need to disgrace him; someone with no titles, a killed brother, a beheaded father... and I find it a pity that the eldest (even if he is not the chief head) of a family that shaped so much of the history of Europe has nothing to go by. After all, many royal houses are still "sovereign" in this modern age because of people honoring tradition and history, so in my opinion it is most unwise for both royal houses to seek to disgrace a branch that carries such a legacy. One would think they have enough problems outside their families (like the fact that many of the spanish don't want prince Felipe to become king) to even bother to disgrace their own blood. What comes to mind is the fact that the title of D. of Cadiz was declared non-hereditary by JC for no apparent reason even though it was Franco who gave the title to Luis Alfonso's father (the same Franco who chose to make JC king) and I firmly believe that if LA were D. of Cadiz he would not claim to be D. of Anjou, nor there would be a quarrel with the orleanists as i think LA would be contempt with just having a title to pass along to his descendants. So sad for his branch indeed (from the point of view of tradition and history).

[Melibea]

^^
Maybe because they have so many problems they don't want to help him at all. I doubt that K. JC likes that side of the family as the Duke of Cadiz could have been the king instead of him, and taking into account all the scandals that Carmen Bordiu causes I suppose that th SRF prefers to ignore them. I think that even no one from the RF went to his wedding in Venezuela.

And after all he will be inherit the dukedom of Franco when his grandmother and mother dies, so at least he will have a title

[kirillovec]

At a French monarchist site Luis Alfonso titulovali his second title - Duke of Bourbon. This corresponds to the rule in the House. At the same time, this title is not available Orleans.

[loyalsubject]

Malibea, good point, he will be Duke of Franco, although I don't think anyone could carry that title proudly in spain lol. Maybe it's a blessing if he only conceives girls as that will put and end to all the quarrels and disputes at once!

[Melibea]

Luis Alfonso de Borbón, a punto de convertirse en padre por segunda vez, viaja a París para cumplir con sus compromisos como Duque de Anjou HOLA

He went to Paris to preside the mass in honour of the death of Enrique IV. And the article also says that Margarita will give birth to the babies in a couple of days.

His uncle, Jaime Maritnez Bordiu, has been accused of a crime against public health; this one is not going to end well.

jaime martinez bordiu - Gente_Famosos - Gente - ABC.es

[sjetajiem]

When Hola announced the birth of twins,
they said they were expected at the end of the spring.
So everything is possible up till June 21st

[Melibea]

Well Hola now says that they are going to be born very soon, the only thing we can do is wait

[frank22]

Check this interview made by HOLA:
http://www.hola.com/imagenes/revista...a-hola-520.jpg

Interview made by Semana:
Fotos
.