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  #561  
Old 07-09-2018, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
He is not a HRH in Spain . Strange !
I understand he must be delighted having an official Role in France
Don Luis Alfonso is no HRH because of a Royal Decree which reserves the use of HRH only for members of the Casa Real: Real Decreto 1368/1987, 6 Noviembre. R?gimen de t?tulos, tratamientos y honores de la Familia Real y la Regencia.

See the second and third lemma of the Sixth article of this Decree:

Second
The sisters of His Majesty The King, Don Juan Carlos I de Borbón, will be Infantas de España and will keep the right to use the treatment of Alteza Real for life, but neither their consorts nor their children.

Third
The members of the family of His Majesty The King, Don Juan Carlos I de Borbón, who at present have a recognized use of a title of the Royal House and the treatment of Alteza Real, may keep it for life, but neither their consorts nor their descendants.

Note that also the late Duke of Parma (with a Spanish passport, like Don Luis Alfonso) was without HRH. Just Don Carlos-Hugo de Borbón-Parma y Borbón. No use of the predicate Su Alteza Real, no use of the title Príncipe de Borbón-Parma, no use of the title Duque de Parma in Spain.
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  #562  
Old 07-09-2018, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
He is titled "HRH the Duke of Anjou" on his French official documents.

https://www.elconfidencialdigital.co...861513845.html

The Orleans family is similarly titled in French official documents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Where is that information mentioned in the article linked above ?
¿Por qué se le llama príncipe?
-Está reconocido como tal en Francia. En los documentos oficiales expedidos por el Estado francés se le titula SAR el duque de Anjou.

(Why is he called prince?
-He is recognized as such in France. In official documents issued by the French state he is titled HRH the Duke of Anjou.)

https://www.elconfidencialdigital.co...861513845.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
What is his legal basis to claim the title of Duke of Anjou ? Patrilineal descent from King Felipe V ? Apparently, the Kings of France didn't recognize that claim considering that the title of Duke of Anjou was recreated for other descendants of Louis XIV, including the future King Louis XV, after Philippe d'Anjou became king of Spain.
Chivalricorders.org (the author has said he is an acquaintance of the family) says
1.1. The French Republic, exceptionally, has acknowledged the titles of the former reigning families, including those accorded by the head of each family to their issue. Thus, the title of Count of Paris and Count of Clermont (the latter has now succeeded to his father's position and claims) have been accorded to the Head of the Orléans family and his heir, while the senior representative of the Bourbons has been accorded the title of Duke of Anjou (and the French courts have also recognized his right to use the undifferenced Arms of France on the grounds that they ceased to be state Arms in 1830), and his late uncle that of Duke of Aquitaine. The Head of the Bonaparte family is accorded the title of Prince Napoleon. […]
THE ROYAL PREROGATIVE, ITS USE BY THE HEIRS TO FORMER THRONES, AND BY REPUBLICAN OR REVOLUTIONARY REGIMES

Had King Felipe VI of Spain had a younger brother, it would have been interesting to see if his brother's wife and children would have claimed the titles HRH and Prince/ss on the basis of the French Republic's recognition. As Duc_et_Pair noted, they would not have been HRHs in Spain, pursuant to the Real Decreto 1368/1987.
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  #563  
Old 07-15-2018, 12:34 PM
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Luis Alfonso de Borbon was in Spain today, visited the monumental memorial of the Valle de los caidos and took part in the demonstration against Spanish governement plan to exhume dictator Francisco Franco's remains from there and move them somewhere less glorified.

Several demonstrators sang francoists chants, displayed francoist flags and gave the fascist salute.

Luis Alfonso de Borbón, en una protesta contra la exhumación de su bisabuelo del Valle de los Caídos | España

https://www.elnacional.cat/ca/politi...88210_102.html
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  #564  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:42 PM
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While i understand it is his greatgrandfather, it is sad to see that he associates with or even 'leads' fascists. Apparently he either supports or at least is fine with fascism.

I wonder what his stances are on both his greatgrandfather's regime and the current tendencies in the francoist movement...
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  #565  
Old 07-31-2018, 12:52 PM
eya eya is online now
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Baby No4 on the way for the family! And what a lovely way to announce it!

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl5g6psD...uisalfdeborbon
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  #566  
Old 07-31-2018, 01:08 PM
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Wow!

Congrats to them!
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  #567  
Old 07-31-2018, 01:50 PM
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Oh !

What a nice and unexpected news ! Another child for them, it's a blessing !
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  #568  
Old 07-31-2018, 02:45 PM
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While i understand it is his greatgrandfather, it is sad to see that he associates with or even 'leads' fascists. Apparently he either supports or at least is fine with fascism.

I wonder what his stances are on both his greatgrandfather's regime and the current tendencies in the francoist movement...

It doesn't surprise me at all. First, it is his great-grandfather as you said. Second, the people who support his claim to the throne in France are generally associated with the far right. There are also some right-wing extremists among the Orléanists, but the Orléanists are historically more closely associated with a liberal, constitutional monarch, which would probably follow the model of other present-day European monarchies.
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  #569  
Old 07-31-2018, 03:31 PM
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Wow, what a lovely surprise! Congratulations to the family.
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  #570  
Old 07-31-2018, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
Baby No4 on the way for the family! And what a lovely way to announce it!

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl5g6psD...uisalfdeborbon
That's indeed such a lovely and funny idea! And fantastic news, I hadn't expected due to the - in comparison - small age gap between number 1 and the "double pack" ...
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  #571  
Old 07-31-2018, 04:58 PM
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I also thought they are already "done" (all children in school age).
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  #572  
Old 08-05-2018, 07:23 AM
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I disagree - I always felt they would have one more child one day The duchess seems to be such a loving and caring woman. A new baby was only a question of time.


Congratulations


The instagram announcement made my day.
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  #573  
Old 08-05-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Where is that information mentioned in the article linked above ?



What is his legal basis to claim the title of Duke of Anjou ? Patrilineal descent from King Felipe V ? Apparently, the Kings of France didn't recognize that claim considering that the title of Duke of Anjou was recreated for other descendants of Louis XIV, including the future King Louis XV, after Philippe d'Anjou became king of Spain.

I think it's because he is the most senior memeber of the family de Bourbon.



He is the senior Spanish member as a descendant of Louis XIV.'s grandson Philippe d'Anjou who became king Felipe V. After the line of Philippe's elder brother Louis died out in 1833, the Spanish Bourbon-Anjou are the eldest male line of the Royal family that derives from the French Capetiens, whose founder Hugo Capet began reigning in France in 987, having been voted for as king after the last Carolingian king died.

The Spanish Borbons are senior to the French Bourbon-Orléans, who, as a line, only began with LOuis XIV.'s younger brother Philippe.



Thus Luis Alfonso is the senior Capet living, though he is neither king of France nor king of Spain. Denying him the title of a Spanish grandee or the duchy of Anjou (the contract that ruled the giving up of Anjou for Spain can be interpreted in several ways and one way is to let the Spanish Borbons senior prince the title of Anjou) is pretty petty, IMHO.
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  #574  
Old 08-05-2018, 10:52 AM
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[QUOTE=Kataryn;2139719]
Spanish Borbons senior prince/QUOTE]

But he isn't a prince. He's not even a HRH.
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  #575  
Old 08-05-2018, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I think it's because he is the most senior memeber of the family de Bourbon.



He is the senior Spanish member as a descendant of Louis XIV.'s grandson Philippe d'Anjou who became king Felipe V. After the line of Philippe's elder brother Louis died out in 1833, the Spanish Bourbon-Anjou are the eldest male line of the Royal family that derives from the French Capetiens, whose founder Hugo Capet began reigning in France in 987, having been voted for as king after the last Carolingian king died.

The Spanish Borbons are senior to the French Bourbon-Orléans, who, as a line, only began with LOuis XIV.'s younger brother Philippe.



Thus Luis Alfonso is the senior Capet living, though he is neither king of France nor king of Spain. Denying him the title of a Spanish grandee or the duchy of Anjou (the contract that ruled the giving up of Anjou for Spain can be interpreted in several ways and one way is to let the Spanish Borbons senior prince the title of Anjou) is pretty petty, IMHO.
Not petty at all. His grandfather Don Jaime de Borbón gave up his right on the throne brcause he was deaf and mute. With that his descendants do not have any title of the Royal House. It is the same as with the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester. Their children are no princes either. One has to draw a line somewhere.

Don Luis Alfonso has no Spanish title as his grandfather's and father's titles were not hereditary. His assumed French titles are not used in Spain. The same treatment for the late Duke of Parma, a Spanish citizen, whom never was named as such in Spain.
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  #576  
Old 08-08-2018, 06:21 AM
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According to Spanish Hola the Duke and Duchess of Anjou revealed that child number 4 will be a boy:


** En ¡HOLA!: El bebé que esperan Luis Alfonso de Borbón y Margarita Vargas es... ** translation **
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  #577  
Old 08-08-2018, 02:31 PM
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Thanks iceflower. Exciting news! It seems that it's become more common for non-reigning royals to announce the sex of their children before birth, as IIRC Princess Isabella de Ligne also did the same with Princesses Althea and Athenais.
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  #578  
Old 08-08-2018, 08:41 PM
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Not only the non-reigning. The current king and queen of Spain announced that their second child would be a girl (so no action was needed to make sure that Leonor would remain the heir).
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  #579  
Old 08-10-2018, 04:11 PM
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You're most welcome, HereditaryPrincess

The family was spotted spending their holidays in Sotogrande. As Hola mentions, their first outing since the pregnancy announcement:


** hola: Luis Alfonso de Borbón y Margarita Vargas, vacaciones familiares en Sotogrande tras anunciar que esperan su cuarto hijo ** translation **

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