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  #281  
Old 06-06-2007, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
It depends entirely on your viewpoint.
To some, Luis Alfonso and his wife are the Duke and Duchess of Anjou, and together with their daughter, Prince/Princesses of Bourbon, with the qualification of Royal Highness.
To others, Luis Alfonso is His Excellency Luis Alfonso de Bourbon, and his wife and daughter are... well, his wife and daughter.
ok, thanks..

So it's ok for me to see Eugenia as a Princess.. cool
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  #282  
Old 06-06-2007, 06:44 AM
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Margarita is lovely in this white dress! But I cannot understand, it was two ceremonies???? Margarita is really beautiful and the baby is very chubby! But she has her hears pirce, gohsss so little!!!!
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  #283  
Old 06-06-2007, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biboquinhas
Margarita is lovely in this white dress! But I cannot understand, it was two ceremonies???? Margarita is really beautiful and the baby is very chubby! But she has her hears pirce, gohsss so little!!!!
The christening was on 02-06-2007, the reception was on 03-06-2007.
  #284  
Old 06-06-2007, 08:55 AM
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Please excuse me... I didn't introduce myself (I must say I am a "pure" commoner and somehow a peasant).
I am a 36 years old French (you probably guessed it reading my bad English) monarchist, I became so at 15 because I was very fond of books, and I am very glad of the personnality of the prince the Providence gave us (well, I am catholic, too) as "potential king" or king "de juris".
I will try to send you photos when they are available on a French forum where I sent them, but I fear they are not as good as the "deadline" ones that were sent previously.
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  #285  
Old 06-06-2007, 01:22 PM
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Welcome to the forum, Thribette!! and thanks to share your experience here.
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  #286  
Old 06-06-2007, 04:28 PM
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Are the Princes or not but they looks sweet family

I found this on wikipedia: He is recognised as His Royal Highness by the French Minister of Justice, and the Spanish crown.
More about the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...e-10143-4.html here.
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  #287  
Old 06-06-2007, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biboquinhas
Margarita is lovely in this white dress! But I cannot understand, it was two ceremonies???? Margarita is really beautiful and the baby is very chubby! But she has her hears pirce, gohsss so little!!!!
In the Philippines, where I was born, baby girls' ears are pierced by doctors upon birth.
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  #288  
Old 06-07-2007, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnik
He is recognised as His Royal Highness by the French Minister of Justice, and the Spanish crown.
Certainly not by the Spanish Crown as it was Juan Carlos who stripped him of his HRH and reduced him to a mere Excellency in 1987. For more of the same, see here.
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  #289  
Old 06-07-2007, 03:06 PM
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I remember that there was smth about that.
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  #290  
Old 06-08-2007, 11:47 AM
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Warren, his HRH was not suppressed in 1987, it was made non-hereditary at that moment. This makes that his children are not Spanish RH.
They are French RH, of course.
Now, it is right that the king of Spain who tries to limit the size of Spanish royalty (easy to understand), would like him not to use his RH; but he owns it, as he was born with it. The king of Spain could suppress his RH, if he wished so, by a law, he does not.
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  #291  
Old 06-09-2007, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thribette
Warren, his HRH was not suppressed in 1987, it was made non-hereditary at that moment. This makes that his children are not Spanish RH.Now, it is right that the king of Spain who tries to limit the size of Spanish royalty would like him not to use his RH; but he owns it, as he was born with it. The king of Spain could suppress his RH, if he wished so, by a law, he does not.
I think it unlikely that Luis Alfonso was downgraded to Excellency as a means of limiting the size of the Spanish Royal Family. It was because the Royal Court thought it prudent to remove any royal connection, or as we would say "to put him in his place", while still a boy. From the French side, the Comte de Paris made a similar but rather hamfisted manoeuver when Luis Alfonso's title of duc d'Anjou was bestowed on the Comte's nephew Prince Charles-Philippe d'Orléans.

These little humiliations have come LA's way because he is the senior Bourbon, and Primogeniture Representative of the House of France, a position neither the King of Spain nor the de juré King of the French can claim. Mind you, there is nothing that he has actually done to offend anybody; it's the fact that these House of Bourbon dynastic positions have fallen to Luis Alfonso which makes the Spanish Court and the Orléanists uncomfortable. Neither wants a rival waiting in the wings, and certainly not one with a superior titular claim upheld by royal legitimists.

Put more simply, it's a case of two branches of a sprawling dynasty protecting their turf against a potential but extremely unlikely threat.
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  #292  
Old 06-11-2007, 12:43 AM
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Warren, the 1987 decret that suppressed the heredity of Royal Highness for members of the royal family, but not, I repeat, for the ones already holding it (it was the case of the duke of Anjou) is available on the Spanish Royal Family official site, as well as on most juridical sites in Spanish. If you don't read Spanish, I may translate it (please excuse my poor English).

About the de jure king of France, he is undoubtly him, not an Orléans, in virtue of French dynastic laws, that are both original and special.
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  #293  
Old 06-18-2007, 05:14 PM
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I am sorry, but I have some questions.
Have you such an idea as a morganatic marriage?
It seems that you have not such an idea as a morganatic marriage.
The morganatic marriage is a misalliance or an unequal marriage.
The morganatic marriage is the marriage of princes of royal blood or aristocrats and girls who come from simpler and modest families. Let’s consider a genealogy of Prince Luis Alfonso de Bourbon who is legitimist pretender to the French throne. His great grandfather, Spanish King Alfonso XIII, was married to English Queen Victoria’s granddaughter. I think that their marriage was equal. One from their sons and grandfather of Luis Alfonso, Don Jaime, has married Elisabeth Dampier. Elisabeth Dampier was a daughter of the French nobleman. But has she got any royal blood? Is their marriage equal or morganatic? At last, the son of this prince and Elisabeth Dampier, Don Alfonso de Bourbon, was married to the granddaughter of Generalissimo Franco. The granddaughter of Generalissimo Franco was not a princess of royal blood, too. Was the marriage of Don Alfonso de Bourbon and Generalissimo Franco’s granddaughter equal or morganatic? Finally, himself Luis Alfonso de Bourbon married the daughter of the Latino American millionaire. Is this marriage equal or morganatic? What is the conclusion? Luis Alfonso has a royal father, a grandfather and a great grandfather, but he also has a morganatic grandmother, a mother and a wife. So I have a question. Can the man who has the closest and morganatic relations claim the French throne?

Still I would do a little remark concerning the present descendants of the Russian Imperial family. I have an acquaintance with one Russian monarchist from very serious monarchist organization. This monarchist told me that all descendants of the Russian Imperial family are morganatic now. So they cannot claim the Russian Imperial Throne.
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  #294  
Old 06-20-2007, 05:58 AM
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Not every Royal House recognises a 'morganatic' marriage. It is unknown in Britain, and I can't think of any examples in France or Spain. If Louis Alfonso is considered to be the product of an unequal marriage (which is quite different to a morganatic marriage), where does that leave the Infantas Leonor and Sophia?
We should be careful in applying marriage concepts to Houses where they don't have any relevance.
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  #295  
Old 06-24-2007, 05:01 PM
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Have the French laws of the succession to the throne got such a specific idea as a morganatic marriage? I read that the heir to the French throne must have Roman Catholic parents and must be born in France. Is it correct? If the French legitimists have not such an idea as a morganatic marriage, why madame de Montespan or marquise de Pompadour become not French queens, but the Spanish and Austrian princesses become wives of the French kings?
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  #296  
Old 06-25-2007, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian View Post
Have the French laws of the succession to the throne got such a specific idea as a morganatic marriage? I read that the heir to the French throne must have Roman Catholic parents and must be born in France. Is it correct? If the French legitimists have not such an idea as a morganatic marriage, why madame de Montespan or marquise de Pompadour become not French queens, but the Spanish and Austrian princesses become wives of the French kings?
Madame de Pompadour and King Louis XV were never married, nor morgantically nor in any other way.

Marquise de Maintenon and King Louis XIV were married and their marriage was considered morganitc. They were married privately and in secrecy (which was the reason the marriage was morgantic). If Louis wanted to make Maquise de Maintenon a Queen, I think he could find a way to do that. But both seemed tp be ok with the status of the King's second, morganitc wife.
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  #297  
Old 07-06-2007, 03:58 PM
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In fact, ther is none notion of morganatic marriage in France. It is a rather german one. This is why, Louis XIV and Madame de Maintenon, who did not want her to be the queen (if she had been still young enough to give him children, probably she would have been queen, at least just before his/her death to legalize the children as successible princes, I suppose), married secretly, as there was no other way to marry without her becoming queen.

The duke of Anjou's grandfather, Emmanuelle de Dampierre, was daughter of a member of an illustrious French family (I am trying to verify it is well the same family that once reigned on Flanders and Bourbonnais), duke of San Lorenzo and his wife, of a sovereign Italian family who had renounced in 1816 to their sovereingity in favor of the pope. It is to note that both Emmanuelle de Dampierre's grandmothers were American!
Anyway, in France, the birth of wives have nothing to see with successibility. We have a very little elegant expression : le coq ennoblit la poule (the cock/rooster ennoblishes the hen) as in France, whatever her birth, higher or lower, the wife follows the condition of her husband. Louis XIV had commoner grandgrandchildren, if I remember well...
In Spain, the ancient succession laws foresaw no exclusion in case of unequal marriages, but the princes who married unequally would usually lose their titles (even if it has nearly always been derogated to this rule), while keeping successible unless the Spanish parliament, the Cortes, would exclude them, which happened under the Constitutionnal monarchy.
In the case of don Jaime (later Jacques Henri VI of France), first the marriage was not absolutely unequal, at least not much more than his father's with Victoria-Eugenia of Battenberg, and it was authorized by Alfonso XIII who did not send him the previous signification that this marriage would deprive him of his titles, so he kept with them.
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  #298  
Old 07-06-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thribette View Post
In the case of don Jaime (later Jacques Henri VI of France), first the marriage was not absolutely unequal, at least not much more than his father's with Victoria-Eugenia of Battenberg, and it was authorized by Alfonso XIII who did not send him the previous signification that this marriage would deprive him of his titles, so he kept with them.
There is no contesting that the marriage of Alfonso XIII was equal. Victoria-Eugenie was born HH Princess of Battenburg and was a granddaughter of Queen Victoria. On top of that she was accepted as an equal bride by her husband and the Spanish Parliament. In the case of Emanuela, I suppose that Jaime was free to marry whoever he wanted since he possessed no dynastic rights in Spain and thus didn't have to get the King's approval (since he renounced his succession rights in 1933) nor possessed any claim to the throne of France (great great great great great grandpa Felipe took care of that hundreds of years ago).
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  #299  
Old 09-03-2007, 07:52 AM
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Don Jaime's right

Please, excuse me for answering so late.
In Spain, only the king can abdicate; and he cannot chose his successor, except if the Cortes accept.
It is very important to understand the critical role of the parliament, the Cortes. The royal succession is totally submitted to the Cortes of Castilla, congregated specifically for each modification of the succession law, and even for the nomination of the heir prince, the prince of Asturias. The king has none other power in it, than to convene the Cortes (note : constitutionnalists, who consider Isabelle II was the legitimate queen in 1833, are less formalist about it and consider that a mere vote of the parliament can modify th succession law, which is hardly defendible in a legal point of view, but I wanted to precise).
So, Alfonso XIII, who was king in 1933, could abdicate, but none of his sons could do it (in addition, don Jaime's renouncement was made under pression of his father, in a hotel room, without witness, and with the condition that his father would sustent him, what he didn't do). Thus, 1933 renouncements (the one of the prince of Asturias, who married a commoner without his father's authorisation, and the one of don Jaime) were totally invalid.
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  #300  
Old 09-19-2007, 03:06 PM
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The Dukes of Anjou in the Invalides

As every year, the dukes of Anjou will assist to the anniversary mass of the foundation of the military hospital of the Invalides, as the duke of Anjou is the eldest descendant (in French succession rules) of king Louis XIV, who funded the hospital.
The mass, on next sunday (09/23/07, 11h AM) will be said by Mgr Le Gal, French bishop for the armies.
Usually, the son of Prince Napoléon is also present for this mass, as heir of Napoléon, who modified the hospital and was buried there.

Right under, the message sent by the Institute of the House of Bourbon (IMB).

Le : 19/09/2007
Monseigneur le Prince Louis de Bourbon, Duc d’Anjou et Madame la Princesse Marie-Marguerite, Duchesse d’Anjou à la messe annuelle de fondation des Invalides dimanche 23 septembre 2007

Chaque année l’Institution national des Invalides commémore sa fondation en 1670 par le Roi Louis XIV soucieux de donner à ses anciens soldats un asile digne du sacrifice qui avait le leur.

Le général d’Armée H. Gobillard, Gouverneur des Invalides, le Médecin-général Inspecteur C. Corbé directeur de l’Institution, et le général Bresse directeur du Musée de l’Armée, invitent traditionnellement le successeur du fondateur à cette cérémonie. Depuis plus de vingt le chef de la Maison de Bourbon assiste à cette messe.

Comme les deux années passées la Princesse Marie-Marguerite, duchesse d’Anjou, sera également présente.

La messe de fondation a été voulue par le Roi Louis XIV. Elle est dédiée au repos de l’âme de tous les pensionnaires qui depuis trois cent trente ans forment une chaîne ininterrompue de héros, parfois célèbres mais le plus souvent discrets, qui ont servi la France.

La messe sera célébrée à 11 heures dimanche 23 septembre par S.E. Monseigneur Patrick Le Gal, Evêque aux Armées.


Contact : 06 28 948 988

Pièce jointe : biographie de Monseigneur le Prince Louis, Chef de la Maison de Bourbon, successeur légitime des rois de France.

Institut de la Maison de Bourbon, 81, avenue de La Bourdonnais, 75007 Paris
Association reconnue d’utilité publique.
Monseigneur le Prince Louis de Bourbon
duc d’Anjou

Le Prince Louis de Bourbon, duc d’Anjou est l’aîné des Capétiens et le successeur légitime des rois de France. Il descend en ligne directe d’Henri IV premier roi de la branche des Bourbons. Dix générations le relient directement à Louis XIV. Né le 25 avril 1974, il est le fils du Prince Alphonse de Bourbon, duc d’Anjou et de Cadix (décédé en 1989). Le 6 novembre 2004 le Prince a épousé la Princesse Marie-Marguerite.

Le Prince Louis est arrière-petit-fils du roi Alphonse XIII d’Espagne, et cousin de S.M. le roi Juan-Carlos Ier d’Espagne. Chef de nom et d’armes des Bourbons, le Prince Louis porte les armes dites « de France » en héraldique, c’est-à-dire d’azur à trois fleurs de lis d’or. En qualité de chef de la Maison de Bourbon, il est le Grand-Maître des ordres de Saint-Michel (fondé par Louis XI) et du Saint-Esprit (fondé par Henri III).

Le Prince est Bailli Grand croix de l’Ordre de Malte depuis juin 2000, dignité réservée aux chefs d’Etat ou de Maisons souveraines. Il est membre titulaire de la Société des Cincinnati de France (créée en 1783), où il représente le roi Louis XVI.

Le Prince est également citoyen d’honneur de la ville d’Aigues-Mortes, président d’honneur et protecteur de l’Institut de la Maison de Bourbon (organisme culturel reconnu d’utilité publique, fondé en 1973) et de la fédération des Associations Présence du Souvenir Bourbonien, ainsi que membre du comité d’honneur du Festival de musique de Comminges.

Le Prince Louis assume son statut de chef de maison royale et le manifeste par de nombreux gestes. Il a, entre autres, depuis 1992, présidé le dépôt des reliques de Saint-Louis à Aigues-Mortes, le bicentenaire de la mort de Louis XVI à Saint-Denis, la commémoration officielle du quatrième centenaire du sacre d’Henri IV à Chartres. En 1996, année du quinze centième anniversaire du baptême de la France, reçu par l’archevêque et le maire de Reims, le Prince se recueille devant la Sainte-Ampoule dont les restes sont pieusement conservés dans la Cathédrale des sacres. Au début de l’année 2000, le Prince a annoncé en tant que Chef de Maison, les résultats positifs de l’analyse ADN du cœur de Louis XVII. Quatre ans plus tard, le 8 juin 2004, il pouvait déposer solennellement la précieuse relique dans la crypte des Bourbons de la Nécropole Royale de Saint-Denis.

Monseigneur le Duc d’Anjou est accueilli, depuis 1992 régulièrement par les maires de nombreuses villes de France (Aigues-Mortes, Marseille, Lyon, Reims, Dinard, Saumur, Amboise, Loches, Angers, Lunéville, Nancy etc.) pour présider des cérémonies commémoratives diverses.

Il a été reçu en 1996 par le Marine nationale à Brest, où il a visité le porte-avions nucléaire Charles-De-Gaulle, et en 1997 à Toulon pour des exercices en mer à bord d’un aviso. En janvier 1998, le Duc d’Anjou a participé à l’inauguration du Stade de France.

Catholique, le Prince Louis de Bourbon, en 1996, a assisté à Reims à la messe célébrée par S.S. le pape Jean-Paul II pour le XVe centenaire du baptême de Clovis. Il a participé aux Journées Mondiales de la Jeunesse à Paris en août 1997. Le 25 août 2000 il a présidé plusieurs cérémonies commémoratives de la création de la ville de Saint-Louis au Missouri (USA) par Louis XV et déposé des reliques du saint Roi dans la cathédrale de la ville. Lors du jubilé de l’an 2000, à Rome, le Prince a rendu hommage au Saint-Père en tant qu’aîné des capétiens et petit fils de Saint-Louis. En août 2002 le Prince a participé aux solennités annuelles des Pieux Etablissements de France à Rome et à Notre Dame de Lorette en Italie. En avril 2005 il fut présent avec la Princesse Marie Marguerite, aux funérailles de Sa Sainteté le Pape Jean-Paul II au Vatican parmi les nombreuses délégations officielles.

Le 5 mars 2007, naissance de SAR la Princesse Eugénie, premier enfant du Prince Louis, baptisée à Paris le 2 juin 2007.
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