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  #181  
Old 03-21-2006, 12:38 AM
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Here is the story of the House of Bourbon

I read in Guy de Sainty's site some years ago about the legal case in France concerning that title between the Orleans and Luis Alfonso. Quite a nasty family feud. among other things the Orleans claimant wanted his name to be legally changed to Bourbon, something that would have gone against tradition. I believe only the royal branch can carry that name, the others carry their location as an identifying part of their name. Maybe someone can elaborate more on this?

Luis Alfonso is more Spanish than French. His claims are like if Caroline's husband, Prince Ernst of Hannover, decided to trouble his cousin the Queen with his own claims to the British throne. But that seems all Luis Alfonso has these days since his cousin King Juan Carlos took back to the crown the title Duke of Cadiz and prevented it to pass to Luis Alfonso. And if he wanted to get some more support for the Duc de Anjou title he should have done something more that photo ops for Hola magazine and the press. Not inviting his supporters to his wedding was quite a slap on the face. That's when I saw the point of view of the actual French Bourbons against Luis Alfonso and his mother. The big irony in all this is that there is no such thing as a French throne, and to top it off the current Napoleonic claimant has a son that is both Bonaparte and Bourbon no less. Plus he is running for a political office in 2007 (shades of Napoleon III?) while the Bourbons are just fighting amongst themselves.
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  #182  
Old 03-21-2006, 01:41 AM
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from what i've read, Luis Alfonso is indeed more Spanish than French. his parentage screams that, for one. and like what Toledo has said, he hasn't done much to solidify his claims as legal heir to the [extinct] French throne. maybe it's about time the Bourbons cleaned up their act. and maybe, he should act more like a Frenchman.

peace out.
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  #183  
Old 03-21-2006, 07:01 AM
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I should point out here that Luis Alfonso has made no claims to either the Spanish or French Crowns; in fact he has been very careful not to do so. Which may be why he didn't invite his "supporters" to his wedding.

Whatever the French Bourbons (especially the Comte de Paris) may argue, Luis Alfonso is the primogeniture senior Bourbon representative. What others choose to make of this dynastic fact, if anything, is up to them.
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  #184  
Old 03-21-2006, 08:29 AM
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Maybe is his mother and grandmother the one pushing the issue more than him? The grandmother has never forgiven Juan Carlos for their family quarrels and his mother, had her husband been proclaimed King of Spain, would be today a dowager Queen. But Queen in exile, with that band the monarchy in Spain would not have lasted long as it does with Juan Carlos and Sofia.
Well, time to get to work, bye....
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  #185  
Old 03-21-2006, 09:01 AM
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Three things.
1. All the french monarchists (and I'm not one of them) are aware that Don Luis Alfonso de Borbon y Martinez-Bordiu is the primogeniture senior Bourbon/Borbon representative. Whether it means he's the Head of the House of Bourbon (which would suppose the House of Bourbon/Maison de Bourbon exists) and the rightful heir to the french throne is another question.
2. The current comte de Paris made a claim before a court years ago to add to his legal name (Orléans) the name Bourbon, and then being called de Bourbon-Orléans. This point was denied to him by a french court. So technically he's not a french Bourbon but a french Orléans.
3. The whole point is to know if the primogeniture senior Bourbon/Borbon representative is the rightful heir to the french throne. This is the heart of the arguing. I won't make a summary of the points raised by each party, and even if I wanted I couldn't as I'm not interested in it (vive la République!), because it's too complex.
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  #186  
Old 03-21-2006, 10:23 PM
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ey, did anyone catch Corazon de Invierno on TVE yesterday? Luis Alfonso and Margarita were in another event (they were dressed casually this time)...i wasn't able to catch the show, only the ending credits (again!)...maybe someone can tell us.

thanks!
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  #187  
Old 03-21-2006, 11:43 PM
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Yeah, compare Carmen Martinez-Bordiu with Sofia; there's a world of difference between the two and I think Sofia brings a good balance to the Crown: JC is very extrovert and kind of a punk (he has a wicked sense of humor) while Sofia is the head, the one that thinks carefully things and try not to offend people. I could easily have a nightmare just to think Queen Carmen *shudders* *wake up in cold sweat*

So long life to the House of Borbon in Spain, this king and the next: Felipe VI!!!!!
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  #188  
Old 03-22-2006, 12:24 AM
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Carmen reminds me a lot of that other impulsive crazy aristocrat, the Princess Thurn von Taxis, the one who married the aging Prince a couple of decades ago and when he died got a ton of money. Kind of Anna Nicole Smith in the USA and the notorious spanish baroness-by-marriage we see in Hola magazine all the time. Sofia cannot even be compared to her, the Queen has a class and style that sets her apart from the temperamental mother of Luis Alfonso, who is now best remembered for those racy and vulgar pictures she did for Hola a few months ago. Luis Alfonso is lucky he was raised by his paternal grandmother because she provided him some sense if decorum and dignity his mother lacks of to this day. Is too bad it was not King Juan Carlos who took over the guardianship of his cousin when his father, the Duke of Cadiz, died.
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  #189  
Old 03-22-2006, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
Three things...
If Luis Alfonso and Margarita have only daugthers that will be it for his legitimist 'seniorship' since the French Bourbons are very Salic law oriented, almost as obsessive as the Romanov claimants and their disputes against Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and her son. It's like parallel stories. and...Viva la Monarquía!
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  #190  
Old 03-22-2006, 12:59 AM
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There certainly have been rumors going on about Maria Margarita's pregnancy, but they have been going since December. If it were true, she would be way bigger. So far, they are just rumors. They can only be trusted if a reputed magazine prints the story of her pregnancy or we see her out and about looking 'bigger.'
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  #191  
Old 03-22-2006, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
Carmen reminds me a lot of that other impulsive crazy aristocrat, the Princess Thurn von Taxis, the one who married the aging Prince a couple of decades ago and when he died got a ton of money. Kind of Anna Nicole Smith in the USA and the notorious spanish baroness-by-marriage we see in Hola magazine all the time. Sofia cannot even be compared to her, the Queen has a class and style that sets her apart from the temperamental mother of Luis Alfonso, who is now best remembered for those racy and vulgar pictures she did for Hola a few months ago. Luis Alfonso is lucky he was raised by his paternal grandmother because she provided him some sense if decorum and dignity his mother lacks of to this day. Is too bad it was not King Juan Carlos who took over the guardianship of his cousin when his father, the Duke of Cadiz, died.
1.Once again I agree with you Toledo, the Martinez-Bordiu family is so gaudy and lacks a lot of class: the best example is Luis Alfonso's wedding, one of the tackiest things I've ever seen and no serious claimant would get married on the other side of the Atlantic without "his supporters", kind of stupid if you ask me

2. I believe you mean Baroness Thyssen a.k.a Tita Cervera, the woman who's 62, still wears very little bikinis, goldigger extraordinarie and is having a botox competition with the Duchess of Alba*shudders*
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  #192  
Old 03-22-2006, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdas1201
There certainly have been rumors going on about Maria Margarita's pregnancy, but they have been going since December. If it were true, she would be way bigger. So far, they are just rumors. They can only be trusted if a reputed magazine prints the story of her pregnancy or we see her out and about looking 'bigger.'
I do hope they have a large family, Luis Alfonso's life has been one marked by tragic events over and over again. Starting a family will be good for him.
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  #193  
Old 03-22-2006, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisiñaki
1.Once again I agree with you Toledo, the Martinez-Bordiu family is so gaudy and lacks a lot of class: the best example is Luis Alfonso's wedding, one of the tackiest things I've ever seen and no serious claimant would get married on the other side of the Atlantic without "his supporters", kind of stupid if you ask me

2. I believe you mean Baroness Thyssen a.k.a Tita Cervera, the woman who's 62, still wears very little bikinis, goldigger extraordinarie and is having a botox competition with the Duchess of Alba*shudders*
I even forgot her name, Tita Cervera!
I remember the wedding pictures of Luis Alfonso and the dress his mother wore. I think she thought she was the main spectacle and not her son. I'm telling you, when Juan Carlos and Sofia became the monarchs the monarchy was saved from going down the drain.
Sorry Luis Alfonso, you are a good kid and certantly not responsible for the actions and scheeming of your parents against Juan Carlos in the sixties.
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  #194  
Old 03-22-2006, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
I remember the wedding pictures of Luis Alfonso and the dress his mother wore. I think she thought she was the main spectacle and not her son.
I agree with that. To this day, the only thing I can really remember about Luis Alfonso's wedding is not the bride or the groom (which is a shame) but the mother, I am sorry to say but she was practically coming out of her dress, not something a groom's mother would wear. She completely overshadowed her son's wedding and not in a good way.
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  #195  
Old 03-22-2006, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
If Luis Alfonso and Margarita have only daugthers that will be it for his legitimist 'seniorship' since the French Bourbons are very Salic law oriented, almost as obsessive as the Romanov claimants and their disputes against Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and her son. It's like parallel stories. and...Viva la Monarquía!
If LA and Margarita have only daughters, which would solve the problem, the legitimist claims would go to king Juan Carlos, and there could be interesting matters here
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  #196  
Old 03-22-2006, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
Carmen reminds me a lot of that other impulsive crazy aristocrat, the Princess Thurn von Taxis, the one who married the aging Prince a couple of decades ago and when he died got a ton of money. Kind of Anna Nicole Smith in the USA...
Toledo, that's a very unfair comment on Princess Gloria. She is neither impulsive nor crazy. It was she who rescued the Thurn und Taxis patrimony after the death of her husband and his business empire was shaky. It was Gloria who took control and brought in the professional managers and trustworthy financial advisers. Gloria, pigeon-holed and ridiculed as the airhead "Punk Princess", surprised everyone and proved to be a hard-headed and astute businesswoman, and a loving and devoted mother. Anna Nicole Smith she is not!
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  #197  
Old 03-22-2006, 08:22 AM
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What is imprinted on my mind from many years ago is a very public picture of Gloria wearing nothing but two strings of vertical material to barely cover her breasts and thinking to myself, well, that's something I'll never see Grace Kelly wearing anytime soon
Has she toned down her act?
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  #198  
Old 03-22-2006, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
If LA and Margarita have only daughters, which would solve the problem, the legitimist claims would go to king Juan Carlos, and there could be interesting matters here
I think there is something called the 18th century Family Pact to prevent that. Maybe the legacy would revert to one of the other branches? You know what would have driven the Orleans off the edge? if Luis Alfonso had married the daugther of the current Bonaparte claimant! She is also the daugther of a Borbon-Two Sicilies princess.
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  #199  
Old 03-22-2006, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
I think there is something called the 18th century Family Pact to prevent that. Maybe the legacy would revert to one of the other branches? You know what would have driven the Orleans off the edge? if Luis Alfonso had married the daugther of the current Bonaparte claimant! She is also the daugther of a Borbon-Two Sicilies princess.
Yes, I forgot this. The claim would then go to the branch of the duques di Sevilla.
And I don't understand why the hypothetical wedding of Luis Alfonso and Caroline Napoléon would have drivent the Orléans of the edge.
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  #200  
Old 03-22-2006, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toledo
I'm telling you, when Juan Carlos and Sofia became the monarchs the monarchy was saved from going down the drain.
Yeah, thank God the true professionals got the throne
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