King Louis XVI (1754-1793) and Queen Marie Antoinette (1755-1793)

[RhapsodyBrat]

well, i've seen bits and pieces of Sofia Coppola's film on the news and although it's still to early to make any judgment, here are a couple of my observations:

-Kirsten Dunst doesn't quite fit the role. IMO, she doesn't have the look or aura to become a royal. and why is she blonde in the film? i remember reading that Marie Antoinette used to be called "Carrots" because of her hair, and that her hair only (suddenly) turned white a few days after they were arrested during the revolution. i guess i'll have to see the film if she was red-haired.

-she's portrayed as giggly and giddy. while Marie Antoinette was described as light-hearted and fun, i just hope Kirsten wasn't all too giggly and giddy.

now these are just observations, and i won't be able to make a complete observation until we've seen the film. but at this stage, erm...i still need a little more convincing.

ciao! :)

PS--ysbel, i've read Victoria Holt's book too (the condensed version on Reader's Digest Condensed Books-just suddenly remembered it!) and jaysus, i only learned that it was fiction today, and thanks to you. :) i think it's amazing that you did your paper on Marie Antoinette

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by RhapsodyBrat

PS--ysbel, i've read Victoria Holt's book too (the condensed version on Reader's Digest Condensed Books-just suddenly remembered it!) and jaysus, i only learned that it was fiction today, and thanks to you. :) i think it's amazing that you did your paper on Marie Antoinette

Hi rhapsody. Victoria Holt's book is pretty good for fiction. She used a lot of the letters that Marie Antoinette wrote to her mother, Empress Maria Theresa of Austria for background on her first years in France.

The Stephan Zweig book though gives a better overview of the entire French court and the jealousies and rivalries that existed there. He also explained a bit about the differences between the Austrian court and the French court. The royal protocol in Vienna was relatively relaxed but the Empress Maria Theresa was very strict when it came to the morals of the court. In France, it was just the opposite, the royal protocol was very strict but the morals were questionable at bet. You could see how dangerous a place it was for the young Dauphine.

I noticed an interesting coincidence when I was posting some info on another French queen, Isabeau of Bavaria, queen of Charles VI in the 1300s.

The most humiliating part of Marie Antoinette's entry into France was her meeting of the French ladies, where she had to take all her clothes and jewelry off and be outfitted with all French clothes. She was so traumatized she broke down and cried in the arms of her new lady-in-waiting. The general reason given for this is that in doing so, she became totally French.

The French in the 1300s also required Isabeau of Bavaria to go through a similar process but for a different reason. Apparently, the French ladies were to inspect the new Queen in the nude to see if she was well formed for childbearing. Her father objected strenously and I don't know if she every went through it.

However, I don't know for sure if it was the same custom but if it was I find it interesting to think that the same custom may have lasted several centuries and just the reasons for it changed.

[Lady Night Stalker]

Poor Marie Antioinette. I think the main problems with her are the ones everyone has already mentioned. She was the yougnest daughter of Maria Therese which meant she was most likely the most spoiled. She was forced into a marriage at 14 when she was far too young and naive to deal with the intrigues of the French Court. The problem with Marie Antoinette is that she was trained in everything else expected of a young lady but not how to rule a country. That was the main problem Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI simply did not know how to rule. They never had any experience with actually ruling because Versaille was too firvolous and flighty. The nobles there were there to be in with the royalty. Maybe if she had been older and not just rushed into that marriage and actually learned how to rule France's monarchy might have lasted. I think one of the biggest mistakes in history is that most princesses were not really taught how to rule. Most of these woman would go on to be rulers but nothing more was expected of them beyond a poltical pawn and a trophy wife.

[Kastalia]

Originally Posted by Lady Night Stalker

Poor Marie Antioinette. I think the main problems with her are the ones everyone has already mentioned. She was the yougnest daughter of Maria Therese which meant she was most likely the most spoiled. She was forced into a marriage at 14 when she was far too young and naive to deal with the intrigues of the French Court. The problem with Marie Antoinette is that she was trained in everything else expected of a young lady but not how to rule a country. That was the main problem Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI simply did not know how to rule. They never had any experience with actually ruling because Versaille was too firvolous and flighty. The nobles there were there to be in with the royalty. Maybe if she had been older and not just rushed into that marriage and actually learned how to rule France's monarchy might have lasted. I think one of the biggest mistakes in history is that most princesses were not really taught how to rule. Most of these woman would go on to be rulers but nothing more was expected of them beyond a poltical pawn and a trophy wife.

I like your point of view.I never thought of her that way but i guess you're right.I always like to read and learn for her,i have visited four times the Versaille and i was always trying to imagine her life there

[Furienna]

I think so too. They were so stupid making them get married at such a young age! :( And yeah, the girls could have been taught how to rule a country too.

[Vanesa]

There are very good books on Marie-Antoinette, and most of them are accurate and easy to read at the same time.

One of my favorites is "The Fatal Freindship", by Stanley Loomis. The book covers all Marie-Antoinette's life, but is mainly focused in her especial relationship with Count Fersen. It includes a lot about Count Fersen, even after Marie-Antoinette's death.

"Queen of France; A biography of Marie-Antoinette", by André Castelot is an excellent book to go on with.

"Marie-Antoinette and the Count of Fersen", by Evelyn Farr is good to read too, but Stanley Loomis book is better that in.

"To the Scaffold;the life of Marie Antoinette" by Carolly Ericksson, could be reccommended as well.

The other stuff I know is mainly in French. As for Victoria Holt's work, I didn't read it, but I heard its good enough. I suppose I MUST read it.

Vanesa.

[bbb]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aN7mJuNikF9k
quotes from article *On June 26, Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres, minister of culture, inaugurated a ``Domaine de Marie-Antoinette'' around the Petit Trianon, the corner of the huge park where the queen relaxed whenever she could get away from the heavily regulated life at the chateau. Starting July 1, the ``Domaine'' will be open to the public.

*When Marie-Antoinette (1755-93) received the Petit Trianon as a gift, the taste in gardening had changed. Instead of Le Notre's classicist style with straight avenues and symmetrical fountains, romantic informality, inspired by the English countryside, was all the rage.
The ``Domaine'' is a perfect example of that new fashion -- an idealized landscape with grottos, waterfalls, ponds, pavilions and cute little temples

[Russian]

I very miserable this ill fated queen

It is very a pity to me this queen because she had very tragic destiny. To lose the husband, the son and the daughter... I think, it is impossible to wish it even the most malicious enemy.

[Danielane]

Originally Posted by Russian

It is very a pity to me this queen because she had very tragic destiny. To lose the husband, the son and the daughter... I think, it is impossible to wish it even the most malicious enemy.

Thank you for the precision, we wondered what you meant exactly.

Danielane, French Royalty moderator.

[Vanesa]

Marie-Antoinette was very childish and frivolous when she came to France (she was childish...for she INDEED was a child back then! ), but little by little, she improved as a Queen and became a worth and very mature human being.

Some people couldn't simply understand that she arrived being a girl in France, and that she haven't any marital relationships with her husband until seven years after marriage. She wanted children, she was bored and she didn't know what exactly to do with her life. She only was allowed to dance, to play, and to disguise herself in shepherdess. She became quite stubborn and frivolous...until she had her first baby. After it, Marie-Antoinette changed a great deal, as if she was a different person.

Vanesa.

[Furienna]

Only one daughter would survive the revolution. Marie Antoinette and Louie XVI were executed, and their son died in prison, I believe. That was a terrible faith for the royal family, yes.

[Dulce Elena]

It might be interesting to note that according to the Fraiser biography, Antoinette probably suffered from a learning disability. Being terribly spoiled as she was she was never schooled properly and was probably behind her peers. She could barely sign her own name let alone write properly. It wouldn't shock me many of her letters weren't written by her own hand.

Adult learning disabilities actually have obvious symptoms beyond poor reading/writing skills. Many adults exhibit inabilities to grasp complex (especially open ended) concepts, poor memory, inability to adjust to new surroundings, trouble summarizing, works slowly and/or pays too much or too little attention to details.

I think the deck was stacked against her from her childhood.

[Avalon]

Originally Posted by Dulce Elena

I think the deck was stacked against her from her childhood.

There is a tradition, according to which when Marie Antoinette was born, everyone saw a Crown (French) and an axe, so you can say that in a way she was doomed from the birth.
Of course this one (like many others) appeared after she was executed and for 99% no such thing happened.

[Furienna]

What do you mean everyone sax a crown and an axe? Where did they see this?

[Avalon]

Originally Posted by Furienna

What do you mean everyone sax a crown and an axe? Where did they see this?

Well, I suppose I should have stated source. It's not the most trustowrthy (it can be a fiction, that is). i read it in "The Queen's Confession" by Victoria Holt. At the very beginning of her book she states that people around Marie Therese and newborn Anotonia saw (had a vision, that may mean something took shape of or reminded them) Crown and an axe.
I must say I haven't read about this anywhere else, so I suppose it may be just a fiction. And you know, once something has happened, peaple start about all the 'visions' and 'signs' they have seen about the upcomming!

[HRH Kerry]

I was flipping through the channels to find something, anything to watch on tv when I stumble across and PBS special on Marie Antoinette. I believe it might be new but I don't see it scheduled again this week.

[GlitteringTiaras]

Originally Posted by kerry

I was flipping through the channels to find something, anything to watch on tv when I stumble across and PBS special on Marie Antoinette. I believe it might be new but I don't see it scheduled again this week.

I'm watching it right now. KCET the L.A. PBS station. It is such a good program. So sad.

[HRH Kerry]

Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras

I'm watching it right now. KCET the L.A. PBS station. It is such a good program. So sad.

If you go to the PBS website and find the link for the movie you can take a fact or fiction quiz. I can't believe I remembered so much about her life.