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  #161  
Old 05-02-2009, 09:44 AM
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How old was her sister Elisabeth when it was suggested they marry her to Louis XV? I'm sure MA would have done her duty too, all royal brides did. Personally, I think MA found Louis XV not so bad, but since she was so young and naive it would have been a surprise. Likely, it was best it never happened.
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  #162  
Old 05-02-2009, 11:38 AM
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Well, Louis XV's wife died in 1768 so Elisabeth was 25 that year. Quite a bit old per the standard of that time but still marriageable.......

I cannot bear to see MA married to Louis XV even if he was still good-looking in his 60s....so like you said, lucky it never happened.
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  #163  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:17 PM
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What do you know about Elisabeth's proposed marriage to Louis XV? I haven't really read about it. What year did she get smallpox which ruined her looks? Elisabeth was more at an age to deal with the realities of such a marriage than her sister would have been, 25 to 14. MA wasn't very mature for 14 when she was married off to Louis XVI, and that marriage was far more suitable for her than a marriage with Louis XV would have been.
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  #164  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:06 PM
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Yes, a marriage to the future Louis XVI, who was only one year older than her, must have been better in every way for Marie Antoinette than what a marriage to Louis XV would have been.
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  #165  
Old 05-03-2009, 02:04 AM
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Maria Elisabeth got smallpox in 1767. I do not know much about the match between Louis XV and Archduchess Maria Elisabeth except this: The French painter Ducreux was sent to Vienna to do a portrait of Marie Antoinette in 1769 and he also did portraits of Elisabeth and Amalia. By that time, Amalia was already engaged to Ferdinand of Parma so it made sense for him to paint a portrait of the intended of his master's favorite grandson. I've also read that he was asked to report on the extent of Elisabeth's pockmarks but I'm not sure how reliable this is. By that time, however, Louis XV already had Madame Du Barry so I guess any interest on Elisabeth as a possible bride quickly faded. We can assume that his ambassador in Vienna, Marquis de Durfort, reported to him details that would interest his master (as he did with Amalia and MA).
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  #166  
Old 05-03-2009, 10:51 PM
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I'm sure Louis XV wouldn't have been interested in Elisabeth after the smallpox ravaged her beauty, she would have been in 1767 about 23 or 24. Nobody wanted to marry her after she got smallpox and she ended up as an abbess, which I think was defintely happier than than a marriage to Louis XV would have been in my opinion.
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  #167  
Old 05-04-2009, 04:18 AM
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Well, Elisabeth was said to be extremely vain, it is possible that she would've liked to be Queen of France (even with a debauched, much older husband), just for the perks and the prestige. She wanted to marry so much but after the smallpox, it wasn't possible anymore so she was angry at world. But yes, personally I think she had a happier life as an abbess, especially after Maria Theresa died.

Had Elisabeth married Louis XV, imagine how it would be.... having two Archduchesses at Versailles---Marie Antoinette would've addressed her as this, 'my grandmother, my sister, and my Queen' or similar! That's just too much, IMO!
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  #168  
Old 05-04-2009, 04:52 AM
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But if Elisabeth had gotten married to Louis XV, maybe they wouldn't have married off Marie Antoinette to the future Louis XVI? Well, we will never know...
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  #169  
Old 05-04-2009, 06:48 AM
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Here's a link to a picture of MA's hair on flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/echo_29/101001252. Very interesting.
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  #170  
Old 05-04-2009, 06:53 AM
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Beautiful colour hair, thanks for the link.
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  #171  
Old 05-04-2009, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace Angel View Post
Here's a link to a picture of MA's hair on flickr Marie Antionette's Lock of Hair on Flickr - Photo Sharing!. Very interesting.
Wow I hadn't realised they'd kept a lick of her hair.
Does anybody know her owns it?
x
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  #172  
Old 05-04-2009, 08:50 AM
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The British Museum owns it- she took a picture when she visited.
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  #173  
Old 05-04-2009, 12:37 PM
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That was very interesting. I visted Brittish Museum once, but I didn't know, that they had a lock of Marie Antoinette's hair.
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  #174  
Old 05-04-2009, 12:50 PM
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I know. It's very interesting. I was going to give my thoughts earlier on whether or not MA would have married Louis XVI had Elisabeth married Louis XV and I still think she might have because MA's marriage secured the Austro- French alliance more than a marriage between Louis XV and Elisabeth would since MA's and Louis XVI's heirs were the ones destined to sit on the throne of France in the future, not what children ( if any) Louis XV and Elisabeth might have had.
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  #175  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:03 PM
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I don't know... I'm not an expert on French sucession laws from the 18th century, but if Louis XV married again and had another son, wouldn't he be closer to the thrown than his nephew? But maybe not. After all, our current king Carl XVI Gustaf was closer to the thrown than his uncle Prince Bertil. That all depends on how the succession laws were written.
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  #176  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:28 PM
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Louis XVI was Louis XV's grandson. As the descendent of Louis XV's eldest surviving son ( although deceased by that time) Louis XVI and his descendents would have taken precedence over any more sons his grandfather Louis XV had.
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  #177  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:46 AM
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Furienna, it depends on the principle of representation, i.e. the sons of a dead prince represent him, in his place.
Otherwise, as you say, the closer prince has better right on the throne.
A succession war occured in Castilla at the death of Alphonse X the wise. In Castilla there was no principle of representation, and Alphonse X redacted a laws in which was introduced this principle, but died before the Cortes generales de Castilla voted it.
His elder son being dead, his second son took the power againsts the sons of the elder, the said sons going to France and look for the help of the king of France, who believed in their good right as in France, the principle of representation is considered to be "self evident".
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  #178  
Old 05-20-2009, 05:34 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5356698/Louis-XVIs-final-testament-discovered.html
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  #179  
Old 05-20-2009, 07:19 PM
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I actually feel more and more sorry for Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. Sure there were problems and injustices in France at the time, but they weren't solved by what happened to them.
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  #180  
Old 05-21-2009, 06:45 PM
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I wouldn't feel especially sorry for them. They lived longer and more comfortable lives than the majority of their subjects. (And I'm very grateful my relatives had the sense to hop on boats to Canada in the 1600s.)
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