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  #121  
Old 10-31-2008, 07:59 AM
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in case anyone is interested, a great book explaining life at the court just before louis xvi and marie antoinette is the memoires of the duc de saint simon.

Quote:
Duc de Saint-Simon, Memoirs, Bayle St. John, trans., (London; Swan Sonnonschein & Co., 1900), pp. 357-365. Reprinted in: Mark A. Kishlansky, ed., Sources of World History, Vol. II (New York; Harper Collins, 1995) pp. 18-23.
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  #122  
Old 12-10-2008, 02:22 AM
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Yes, too bad Marie Therese never had children. I think she wanted children, but her husband was likely incapable, true. Had MT been married to the Austrian candidate for her hand, she likely would have had children- he was dashing and handsome ( Archduke Karl, I believe, according to the recently published bio of her), and she might have been happier. She was in and out of exile and poverty married to her french cousin, who in wasn't that handsome or anything, and likely couldn't beget children- nor was his personality at all interesting. She married him out of loyalty to her family and past, and did love him, according to her bio eventually- although at first his letters to her didn't sound interested. But had she married into a stable ( at the time) royal family like the Hapsburgs, her mother's family, she might have been happier- I feel she was too intertwined with her French royal past and her families's tragedy by marrying her cousin. She wasn't that happy in Vienna either though.
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  #123  
Old 01-17-2009, 04:10 PM
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Hi everyone,
I've got a rather important question...and I'm hoping to get an answer here

You see, on this link: The Danish Monarchy - The Royal House - HM The Queen
above the picture of Margrethe, there is that M with the crown.
Well my question is, how do you call it? and did Marie-Antoinette have such a thing, too? and if yes, do you have a picture?
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  #124  
Old 01-17-2009, 06:19 PM
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It's called a monogram, and Marie Antoinette did have one, as with many royals.
Here's a picture:
Musées de France - Monogram of Marie-Antoinette Brooch - Polyvore
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  #125  
Old 01-17-2009, 06:38 PM
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Did anyone here read Marie-Antoinettel's last letter, the one she wrote the morning of her death? It's a quite moving one.
Basically, she said to her sister-in-law Elisabeth, Louis XVI's sister, to take care of her children...to tell her son he should never tried to avenge her death and his father's execution. She is also devastated to leave Marie-Thérčse and the little Louis-Charles ( "My eyes don't have tears anymore to cry for my poor children.")
She also hopes being as brave as her husband during her last moments in public.
The letter was never given to Elisabeth (who was beheaded as well 6 months after the Queen).
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  #126  
Old 01-17-2009, 08:08 PM
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That sounds moving indeed.
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  #127  
Old 01-27-2009, 03:03 PM
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News Summary Royalblog.nl: Storm finishes Marie Antoinette's tree

courtesy Royalblog.
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  #128  
Old 01-28-2009, 10:28 AM
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Not that late I suppose

Hello I'm new in this... I mean the FORUMS, I have been in love with Marie Antoinette since I was 7 years old that I watch this manga series calle "Lady Oscar", I just want to say that apart from this I have read many bio's on her... for me the best written is the one from Antoine Fraser, and I think people every time just needs a villain. For the worst part is that this time was she the one who took the worst.

I think that people should just remember who really she was and at 14 just wanted to impress her husbands family. Cause there are facts that she use to support every stupidity of he brothers in law.

so I totally SUPPORT her...
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  #129  
Old 01-29-2009, 11:47 PM
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My blog is being hit hard with people curious about Marie Antoinette. It has literally come out of no where, and I can't understand why. The only major thing in MA news is that her tree fell. But to me, that doesn't explain the scores of people searching for blogs discussing MA. Is anyone experiencing this also? Does anyone have an explanation why the sudden interest in Marie Antoinette?
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  #130  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:16 PM
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I must admit that I prefer Louis XVI to Marie-Antoinette.
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  #131  
Old 03-11-2009, 12:23 AM
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Why do you prefer Louis XVI to Marie Antoinette?
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  #132  
Old 03-13-2009, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieS View Post
I must admit that I prefer Louis XVI to Marie-Antoinette.
Me too. In my case is that the King was not frivolous at all, while Queen Marie-Antoinette was a very "light" person, at least until adversity hit her. After 1789, or better, after 1792, the Queen became a very different person. After 10 August 1792, she left aside her old personality and reach martyrdom.

But King Louis was a very humble and responsible man all time. Sometimes, he was a little boring, yes. But he was a good man, and he aroses tenderness on me. (That's my maternal side! )

Vanesa.
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  #133  
Old 03-19-2009, 10:51 PM
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He was a good man, and tried his best although unfortunately he couldn't stop the revolution not being a strong ruler. MA I think was just young and made errors of youth, and her frivolity was due to that, although sometimes it also got exaggerated. She never made the famous '' Let them eat cake'' remark for example.
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  #134  
Old 03-20-2009, 04:36 PM
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Maybe it's a result of the recent movie about MA?
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  #135  
Old 03-20-2009, 06:08 PM
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The increased visitors to her blog? But the movie was released in 2006, you'd have thought you would have seen more blog visitors sooner ( or back then).
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  #136  
Old 03-21-2009, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowabelle View Post
Maybe it's a result of the recent movie about MA?

Yes. I think so...I'm an historian and my specific period is XVIII Century. Back then there adolescence (teenager years) wouldn't exist as it's used today. I mean, there's people who claims that she was not allowed to live her teen years as any bourgeois teen, but in fact, people passed quickly from childhood to adult life...That's the main cause for we read about excellent politicians and artist, and musicians who culd be 25 years old or less. Today, people of this age are hearing rock and roll and rollerskating .They are still childish (I'm speaking in general terms. Not all people is that way today). I think it is the reason for Marie-Antoinette was considered as an immature at XVIII Century.

I've read Stefan Zweig bio about her, and even if I think it's a great essai on the Queen, it is mistaken in a very important point: he judges her as a teen from HIS times. He seems to forget that she lived at XVIII Century.

As for Louis XVI everybody seems to think he was weak. It was repeated for decades and decades...The truth it is that Louis XVI was not ready to face Revolution, as Nicholas II wasn't ready to it, either. They were raised in a very different world and their menthalities wouldn't allow any of the new ideas. They were opposed to them by education, beliefs and feelings. How could they cope with the very Revolution idea? It was absurd for them both.

Oh...Yes. Of course: Marie-Antoinette never said "Let'em eat cake..."

Vanesa.
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  #137  
Old 03-21-2009, 08:58 AM
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Like I've said earlier, I feel sorry for Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. Yes, the people were of France oppressed. At the time, they were even almost starving, because there was a famine. It was time for changes. But executing the king and the queen was still taking it too far. Of course, they didn't have a good reputation after they had tried to flee from the country, but still... And yes, I have similar feelings for Nicholaus and Alexandra and their family in Russia.
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  #138  
Old 03-25-2009, 01:54 PM
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Well, my impression is that Louis XVI was the person with most accurate view of what was happening in his time, and he just knew it was impossible to stop, and thought he was able to make it less violent by a patient attitude. In particular he made it clear he was to be executed, years before it happened.
He was a bit "liberal", although not in the worse sense. He liked reforms, was very open-minded.
I am not sure at all of the link between the 1789 low crops because of hard winter, and the happening of the French revolution, except that people was weaker to defend their king against the nobility and burgesy who revolted.
I am nearly sure that a better link could be made with the expulsion of Jesuits in 1763. Previously they held the best colleges where the children of the established and upcoming classes (because in France, social, technical etc progresses were more advanced then than elsewhere, I think, and middle class increased a lot, particularly an urban one) could find instruction.
After their expulsion, the colleges teaching seem to have changed a lot and led pupils to have very violent opinions/behaviours.
At the contrary, the nothing-less-than-catholic king of Prussia welcomed the refugees, made them build colleges, ant this was the origin of the strength of this country later, whilever previously it was retarded.
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  #139  
Old 03-25-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thribette View Post
I am not sure at all of the link between the 1789 low crops because of hard winter, and the happening of the French revolution, except that people was weaker to defend their king against the nobility and burgesy who revolted.
Well, out in the countryside, the nobility wanted as much bread as always, leaving even less than usual to the ordinary people, who had actually worked the land and grown the crops. And in the towns and the cities, the bread prices went up, because there was less bread to be sold, so ordinary people could hardly afford to buy it. People had simply finally had enough and started revolting. But of course, it was also important, that people (especially the middle classes, who had some education) had started thinking differently, that everybody was equal. The famine and the new ideas were together the start of the French revolution.
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  #140  
Old 03-28-2009, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanesa View Post
Yes. I think so...I'm an historian and my specific period is XVIII Century...
It's true that back then there was no '' teenagers'' as defined today. MA behaved like one, though, you are right. She was frivolous in her youth as her mother Maria Theresa pointed out to MA in her letters to her- I just read the new book In Truimph's Wake by Julia Gelardi which covers MA and Maria Theresa of Austria and their mother- daughter relationship. Maria Theresa often pointed out the danger that could come of MA's frivolous, rather irresponsible, approach to life. Maria Theresa was right.

Louis XVI was somewhat more favorable to changes in goverment than Nicholas II, in my opinion. Louis XVI was not perhaps a weak leader , but he had no charisma and not many leadership skills- it would have helped had he had charisma and not been so passive. He wanted to change some things, as he was doing by convening the Estates General for the first time since Louis XIV's reign to change taxation practices. He knew there had to be some change since the financial sitiuation in France was beyond saving. But events played out of his hands after the Estates General convened. MA I think was more resistant to reform than her husband. She was more of a decision maker anyway in the later years, such as when they were organizing the flight to Varennes.
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