The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Non-Reigning Houses > Royal Families of France

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #81  
Old 05-25-2006, 12:08 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Victoria Holt's book is pretty good for fiction. She used a lot of the letters that Marie Antoinette wrote to her mother, Empress Maria Theresa of Austria for background on her first years in France.

The Stephan Zweig book though gives a better overview of the entire French court and the jealousies and rivalries that existed there. He also explained a bit about the differences between the Austrian court and the French court. The royal protocol in Vienna was relatively relaxed but the Empress Maria Theresa was very strict when it came to the morals of the court. In France, it was just the opposite, the royal protocol was very strict but the morals were questionable at bet. You could see how dangerous a place it was for the young Dauphine.

I noticed an interesting coincidence when I was posting some info on another French queen, Isabeau of Bavaria, queen of Charles VI in the 1300s.

The most humiliating part of Marie Antoinette's entry into France was her meeting of the French ladies, where she had to take all her clothes and jewelry off and be outfitted with all French clothes. She was so traumatized she broke down and cried in the arms of her new lady-in-waiting. The general reason given for this is that in doing so, she became totally French.

The French in the 1300s also required Isabeau of Bavaria to go through a similar process but for a different reason. Apparently, the French ladies were to inspect the new Queen in the nude to see if she was well formed for childbearing. Her father objected strenously and I don't know if she every went through it.

However, I don't know for sure if it was the same custom but if it was I find it interesting to think that the same custom may have lasted several centuries and just the reasons for it changed.
__________________

__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 06-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Orlando, United States
Posts: 27
Poor Marie Antioinette. I think the main problems with her are the ones everyone has already mentioned. She was the yougnest daughter of Maria Therese which meant she was most likely the most spoiled. She was forced into a marriage at 14 when she was far too young and naive to deal with the intrigues of the French Court. The problem with Marie Antoinette is that she was trained in everything else expected of a young lady but not how to rule a country. That was the main problem Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI simply did not know how to rule. They never had any experience with actually ruling because Versaille was too firvolous and flighty. The nobles there were there to be in with the royalty. Maybe if she had been older and not just rushed into that marriage and actually learned how to rule France's monarchy might have lasted. I think one of the biggest mistakes in history is that most princesses were not really taught how to rule. Most of these woman would go on to be rulers but nothing more was expected of them beyond a poltical pawn and a trophy wife.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 06-16-2006, 07:58 AM
Kastalia's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: -, Cyprus
Posts: 397
I like your point of view.I never thought of her that way but i guess you're right.I always like to read and learn for her,i have visited four times the Versaille and i was always trying to imagine her life there
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 06-16-2006, 06:13 PM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,206
I think so too. They were so stupid making them get married at such a young age! :( And yeah, the girls could have been taught how to rule a country too.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 06-26-2006, 12:38 AM
Royal Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,734
There are very good books on Marie-Antoinette, and most of them are accurate and easy to read at the same time.

One of my favorites is "The Fatal Freindship", by Stanley Loomis. The book covers all Marie-Antoinette's life, but is mainly focused in her especial relationship with Count Fersen. It includes a lot about Count Fersen, even after Marie-Antoinette's death.

"Queen of France; A biography of Marie-Antoinette", by André Castelot is an excellent book to go on with.

"Marie-Antoinette and the Count of Fersen", by Evelyn Farr is good to read too, but Stanley Loomis book is better that in.

"To the Scaffold;the life of Marie Antoinette" by Carolly Ericksson, could be reccommended as well.

The other stuff I know is mainly in French. As for Victoria Holt's work, I didn't read it, but I heard its good enough. I suppose I MUST read it.

Vanesa.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 06-29-2006, 11:11 AM
bbb's Avatar
bbb bbb is offline
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: lake texoma, United States
Posts: 1,060
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aN7mJuNikF9k
quotes from article *On June 26, Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres, minister of culture, inaugurated a ``Domaine de Marie-Antoinette'' around the Petit Trianon, the corner of the huge park where the queen relaxed whenever she could get away from the heavily regulated life at the chateau. Starting July 1, the ``Domaine'' will be open to the public.

*When Marie-Antoinette (1755-93) received the Petit Trianon as a gift, the taste in gardening had changed. Instead of Le Notre's classicist style with straight avenues and symmetrical fountains, romantic informality, inspired by the English countryside, was all the rage.
The ``Domaine'' is a perfect example of that new fashion -- an idealized landscape with grottos, waterfalls, ponds, pavilions and cute little temples
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 06-30-2006, 03:45 AM
Russian's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Russia, Russia
Posts: 81
I very miserable this ill fated queen

It is very a pity to me this queen because she had very tragic destiny. To lose the husband, the son and the daughter... I think, it is impossible to wish it even the most malicious enemy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 07-02-2006, 07:57 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: N/A, France
Posts: 1,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian
It is very a pity to me this queen because she had very tragic destiny. To lose the husband, the son and the daughter... I think, it is impossible to wish it even the most malicious enemy.
Thank you for the precision, we wondered what you meant exactly.

Danielane, French Royalty moderator.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 07-02-2006, 08:46 PM
Royal Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,734
Marie-Antoinette was very childish and frivolous when she came to France (she was childish...for she INDEED was a child back then! ), but little by little, she improved as a Queen and became a worth and very mature human being.

Some people couldn't simply understand that she arrived being a girl in France, and that she haven't any marital relationships with her husband until seven years after marriage. She wanted children, she was bored and she didn't know what exactly to do with her life. She only was allowed to dance, to play, and to disguise herself in shepherdess. She became quite stubborn and frivolous...until she had her first baby. After it, Marie-Antoinette changed a great deal, as if she was a different person.

Vanesa.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 07-03-2006, 12:34 PM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,206
Only one daughter would survive the revolution. Marie Antoinette and Louie XVI were executed, and their son died in prison, I believe. That was a terrible faith for the royal family, yes.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 07-24-2006, 08:00 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 92
It might be interesting to note that according to the Fraiser biography, Antoinette probably suffered from a learning disability. Being terribly spoiled as she was she was never schooled properly and was probably behind her peers. She could barely sign her own name let alone write properly. It wouldn't shock me many of her letters weren't written by her own hand.

Adult learning disabilities actually have obvious symptoms beyond poor reading/writing skills. Many adults exhibit inabilities to grasp complex (especially open ended) concepts, poor memory, inability to adjust to new surroundings, trouble summarizing, works slowly and/or pays too much or too little attention to details.

I think the deck was stacked against her from her childhood.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 07-31-2006, 08:15 PM
Avalon's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulce Elena
I think the deck was stacked against her from her childhood.
There is a tradition, according to which when Marie Antoinette was born, everyone saw a Crown (French) and an axe, so you can say that in a way she was doomed from the birth.
Of course this one (like many others) appeared after she was executed and for 99% no such thing happened.
__________________
Queen Elizabeth: "I cannot lead you into battle, I do not give you laws or administer justice but I can do something else, I can give you my heart and my devotion to these old islands and to all the peoples of our brotherhood of nations." God, Save The Queen!
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 07-31-2006, 08:22 PM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,206
What do you mean everyone sax a crown and an axe? Where did they see this?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 08-01-2006, 02:06 PM
Avalon's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna
What do you mean everyone sax a crown and an axe? Where did they see this?
Well, I suppose I should have stated source. It's not the most trustowrthy (it can be a fiction, that is). i read it in "The Queen's Confession" by Victoria Holt. At the very beginning of her book she states that people around Marie Therese and newborn Anotonia saw (had a vision, that may mean something took shape of or reminded them) Crown and an axe.
I must say I haven't read about this anywhere else, so I suppose it may be just a fiction. And you know, once something has happened, peaple start about all the 'visions' and 'signs' they have seen about the upcomming!
__________________
Queen Elizabeth: "I cannot lead you into battle, I do not give you laws or administer justice but I can do something else, I can give you my heart and my devotion to these old islands and to all the peoples of our brotherhood of nations." God, Save The Queen!
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 09-26-2006, 09:34 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulce Elena
It might be interesting to note that according to the Fraiser biography, Antoinette probably suffered from a learning disability.
Yes her handwriting was atrocious; she also appears to have suffered from ADD though it wasn't recognized as such back then. Her French tutor said that it was due to having never been trained to apply herself to any regular study before the age of nine or so.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 09-26-2006, 09:36 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,390
That's a great book Avalon. Even though its fiction, a lot of it is based on fact. You may want to read Stefan Zweig's nonfiction biography as a comparison. He treats a lot of the same subjects as she does.

Holt also mentioned the earthquake in Lisbon Portugal the day that she was born. That definitely happened though one doesn't know whether its ominous nature was apparent to Marie Antoinette's destiny before her death.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 09-27-2006, 05:47 AM
Avalon's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,905
I have read Stefan Zweig's buigraphy as well and I like it very much. Generally I prefer non-ficional biographies to the fictional ones, because you can never distinguish what's the truth and what's made up in the latter.

I have completely forgotten about the mention of the earthquake, thanks for reminding! Poor Holt must have spent many hours, searching for all possible misfortunes on the day!
__________________
Queen Elizabeth: "I cannot lead you into battle, I do not give you laws or administer justice but I can do something else, I can give you my heart and my devotion to these old islands and to all the peoples of our brotherhood of nations." God, Save The Queen!
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 09-27-2006, 01:07 PM
HRH Kerry's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Up the street,hang a left,3rd house from the corner, United States
Posts: 1,626
I've read The Hidden Diary of Marie Antoinette. Yes, its fiction but based on actual facts and speculation. What made my skin crawl was how the book described the lost of her sister Josepha.
__________________
Princely Family of Liechtenstein Forum
Join in on the discussions.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 10-22-2006, 10:43 PM
Charlottesville's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sulphur, United States
Posts: 66
It's sad that many of the stories of Marie Antoinette are still widely believed, such as the "Let them eat cake!" lie. She may not have been great, but she was forced out of her country at the tender age of 14, married, and then became a queen at 17. She hardly got out of the palace, and although ignorance is not bliss, she should not have been beheaded, nor should the poor Dauphin had been tortured as he had.
__________________
"My heart tells me it is she," -Olga Alexandrovna when meeting Anna Anderson who claimed to be her godchild Anastasia Nicholaevna, before she changed her mind, saying that she was a deluded imposter.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 10-23-2006, 08:25 AM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,206
The French revolution lead to the first ever left-wing dictatorship in the world. Just compare it to Russia and China in the 20th centrury. As someone else said in this thread, Marie Antoinette was the wrong person at the wrong place at the wrong time. Even if she didn't say "Let them have cake!", I guess she had little or no understanding for ordinary people and how they lived, and she appeared to be an oppressor.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Archduke Carl Christian of Austria & Princess Marie-Astrid of Luxembourg 1982 Cathérine Bergeyck Royal Weddings 25 04-18-2014 09:24 PM
Archduchess Marie Christine of Austria and Count Rodolphe of Limburg-Stirum, 6 Dec 08 Marengo Weddings: Non-Reigning Houses & Nobility 208 01-09-2013 09:46 AM
Children of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette Etienne,DuchessofBurgundy Royal Families of France 65 12-19-2012 08:31 AM
"Marie-Antoinette" the movie (2006) morhange The Electronic Domain 75 01-24-2012 01:31 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch royal history fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king constantine ii king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympic games ottoman pom president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:04 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]