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08-19-2005, 04:24 AM
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Nobility
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Originally Posted by Smilla
Actually, her daughter Maria Carolina (child number 13), wife of the king of Sicily, was as energetic as her mother. Her husband was not very intelligent, so she practically ran the court, and later fought against Napoleon in various diplomatic ways.
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Maria Carolina did govern the both Sicilies, but I think it is justified to deny that she was an able and competent administrator. 'Cruel' is a more befitting adjective.
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Originally Posted by Smilla
I think Marie Antoinette had a bad start when she came to France as a fourteen-year-old child, and a very inexperienced and immature child she was! The pressure on her to have a child was enormous, but she didn't get pregnant for a long time. This certainly added to her problems. Don't you think things would have turned out differently if she'd had 16 children like her mum? She wouldn't have had any time to be frivolous!
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Louis XVI coudn't sire a child for several years until a certain operation, if we are to believe Zweig. If he had been less shy and more clever, he would've ungergone it earlier.
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08-19-2005, 05:14 AM
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If he had had a better physician, better personal servants, you might think. He had no way of knowing that not all men were like him.
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08-19-2005, 08:37 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Originally Posted by semisquare
there is a book with a collections of letters from maria to her mother and letters that were written from the austrian ambassador to maria's mother.
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I know what you mean, I've read a lot of the letters where they talk disparagingly of Marie between them. I think I may have read letters from Maria Theresa to Marie with contents in a similar vein.
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08-19-2005, 11:53 PM
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Royal Highness
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According to Olivier Bernier, expert on 18th century France, Maria Antonia (as she was then known) shared her mother's bedroom for a few weeks before her departure for tutelage and a mother's guidance. For the 18th century, that was a more caring mother than most, but then again, Maria Theresa still had much to learn!!
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08-20-2005, 08:09 AM
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Courtier
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Does anyone remember the smallpox episode with one of Maria Antonia's older sisters, before Maria was married? I might be mixing things up, let me see if I can find something online really quick.
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08-20-2005, 08:21 AM
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Courtier
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tiaraprin
According to Olivier Bernier, expert on 18th century France, Maria Antonia (as she was then known) shared her mother's bedroom for a few weeks before her departure for tutelage and a mother's guidance. For the 18th century, that was a more caring mother than most, but then again, Maria Theresa still had much to learn!!
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Yeah, I heard that growing up, the large family had a pretty down-to-earth homey relationship with each other, aside from Emperor Francis' shameless philandering lol, but one can't deny Maria's ruthlessness which resulted in misery for her children. Her children were her "political sacrifices." But in her defence she was by far not the only monarch practicing these strategies.
LOL, do you remember what Crown Prince Joseph said about Josepha of Bavaria?
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08-20-2005, 09:13 AM
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Nobility
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alicky
Does anyone remember the smallpox episode with one of Maria Antonia's older sisters, before Maria was married? I might be mixing things up, let me see if I can find something online really quick.
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Do you mean Maria Theresa sending her daughter to pray among the corpses of Habsburgs?
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08-20-2005, 09:20 AM
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Yes! That's it exactly.
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08-20-2005, 09:23 AM
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Was Maria Josepha the daughter? And also the name of Joseph's wife that had died?
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08-20-2005, 09:38 AM
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Nobility
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alicky
Was Maria Josepha the daughter? And also the name of Joseph's wife that had died?
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Yes, that's true. Maria Josepha of Bavaria was Crown Prince Joseph's wife, who died of smallpox. Maria Theresa sent her daughter of the same name, who was set to go to the Kingdom of Two Sicilies (Maria Josepha was engaged to King Ferdinand), to pray in the Imperial Vault before leaving Vienna. And Habsburgs had a macabre penchant for burying their family members in open coffins then...
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08-20-2005, 09:56 AM
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I guess they were trying to economize lol.
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08-20-2005, 10:13 AM
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Nobility
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Maria Carolina (the third sister to be betrothed to King Ferdinand) flatly refused to go to the Imperial Vault, and the Empress, having criticised the lack of piety in the young generation, went there to pray herself... As it was usual for Maria Theresa.
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08-20-2005, 10:18 AM
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Did she have smallpox before resulting in a physiological resistance to it? Or was she just plain lucky?
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08-20-2005, 10:21 AM
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Nobility
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alicky
Did she have smallpox before resulting in a physiological resistance to it? Or was she just plain lucky?
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She already had had smallpox, if I remember correctly.
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08-21-2005, 02:13 AM
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Royal Highness
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08-22-2005, 12:06 AM
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"The pain of spending a week with my brother is well worth it."
– Prince William, on joining Prince Harry for a charity motorcycle ride across South Africa
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08-22-2005, 12:23 AM
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Royal Highness
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Originally Posted by Harry's polo shirt
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Although this is Danish and not German, and I don't know German too well, it seems some of Marie Antoinette's jewelry was stolen on the night of June 13 in West London.
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08-22-2005, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Although this is Danish and not German, and I don't know German too well, it seems some of Marie Antoinette's jewelry was stolen on the night of June 13 in West London.
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thanks, I only know english:o
Here is something else I found.
You have to scroll down a bit--past her background.
http://www.soupsong.com/zjul04.html --VERMICELLI SOUP: The Last Meal of Queen Marie Antoinette Before Her Execution. I looked for other sites to make sure that it is accurate and they sent me back to this one. So I guess it is.
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"The pain of spending a week with my brother is well worth it."
– Prince William, on joining Prince Harry for a charity motorcycle ride across South Africa
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08-22-2005, 03:57 PM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: , United States
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care for her hemorrhages.
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what are the hemorrhages spoked of in the article? i have read that that her hair change from blond to white and that she age so much that she look like a women in her 60's not in her 30's.
does anyone believe she was misunderstood or that she just didnt care about her subjects and her duties?
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08-22-2005, 04:06 PM
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Serene Highness
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i just found this on a web site that quotes famous people its call
http://www.corsinet.com/braincandy/dying2.html
here is maria's quote
Farewell, my children, forever. I go to your Father.
Executed by guillotine.
Monsieur, I beg your pardon.
Spoken to the executioner, after she stepped on his foot.
~~ Marie Antoinette, Queen of France, d. October 16, 1793
You are going to hurt me, please don't hurt me, just one more moment, I beg you!
Guillotined.
~~ Madame du Barry, mistress of Louis XV, d. 1793
isn't that one of the sadest thing u have read?
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