Henri, Count of Paris, Head of the Royal House of France (1908-1999)

[SirGyamfi1]

Which are your Proves ??

You’re asking me what are my points or evidence? What I typed was not hearsay and Henri ruined the family fortunes out of bitterness and it has been discussed on this forum before.

 

[rominet09]

A huge lot of books have been written about him, a very long, sad and complex story. You can't summarize him with only one little fact.
Very complicated character.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

A huge lot of books have been written about him, a very long, sad and complex story. You can't summarize him with only one little fact.
Very complicated character.

Of course he would be a complex person like anyone and what I typed is not a summary of him but an aspect or fault of his that affects his family today.

 

[rominet09]

Of course he would be a complex person like anyone and what I typed is not a summary of him but an aspect or fault of his that affects his family today.

I was not critizising your post, it just happens that I own several books about him with his very complex and interesting life.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I was not critizising your post, it just happens that I own several books about him with his very complex and interesting life.

Interesting

 

[kalnel]

Prince Michael of Greece, who is the late Count of Paris's nephew, gives some insights into his uncle and aunt in his book, "Avec ou sans couronne." (I believe that translates to "With or Without a Crown." It is available on U.S. Amazon in French.)

It's been a while since I read that book, but it was clear that Michael did not like his uncle or think much of the way he treated his family or managed money. (Including some of Michael's IIRC.)

He doesn't say too much about his aunt, but I got the impression that he found her difficult.

Conversely, he seemed to adore his Greek cousins, King Paul, Queen Frederika and their children. Nothing but good things to say about them.

 

[Marengo]

Prince Michel wrote a loving obituary for his aunt Isabelle some time ago IIRC. It was titled 'ma tante Bébelle' or something alike. I had it saved on an old computer for some time but I can not find it anywhere anymore sadly.

Henri was difficult for his children and perhaps also for his nephew, who spent his teenage years with the Orleans family in the manoir du Coeur-Volant in Louveciennes, where the children lived in a seperate house from the parents. The manoir was built by Lydie Lemercier de Nerville / "Madame Aubernon", one of the models of Proust's deliciously rediculous Madame Verdurin.

 

[maria-olivia]

Books and books are written about him even Prince Jacques, they don't say the same !.
I only believe what Prince Michel of Greece is writing in his books about his cousins Orleans.

 

[kalnel]

Prince Michel wrote a loving obituary for his aunt Isabelle some time ago IIRC. It was titled 'ma tante Bébelle' or something alike. I had it saved on an old computer for some time but I can not find it anywhere anymore sadly.

Henri was difficult for his children and perhaps also for his nephew, who spent his teenage years with the Orleans family in the manoir du Coeur-Volant in Louveciennes, where the children lived in a seperate house from the parents. The manoir was built by Lydie Lemercier de Nerville / "Madame Aubernon", one of the models of Proust's deliciously rediculous Madame Verdurin.

That's interesting. I found the quote in the book I was thinking of: "La comtesse de Paris n'a jamais été ma préférée, et pourtant ce jour-là, elle m'a touché." (The Countess of Paris has never been my favorite, yet that day, she touched me.) He then goes on to say how she urged him to visit the Count of Paris (Michael's uncle), who was living with his mistress, because he was unhappy and unwell.

Later, he says he pities her at Henri's funeral, trying to seem strong and proper, but torn.

He tells a story about her pushing aside an archaeology guide he had hired for a family trip and giving her own error-ridden version of history, but he seemed to tell that story with amusement.

He doesn't say much else about her, but he has some long passages about his uncle.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Henri d'Orléans (1908-1999) "managed" it to lose almost the complete d'Orléans fortune due to really poor decisions. And his desilusional and difficult character did not help either, to keep unity and peace in his family.

By account of his son Henri (1933-2019) from the gigantic fortune he practically inherited "only some handkerchiefs with a monogram". But to be fair, there are more royal Houses where a gigantic fortune has been lost. It os difficult to keep a family fortune intact in exile, during world wars and when there are som many children to be equal heirs under the Napoleonic system where all children have an equal right (vs the British system where an eldest son can inherit all).

 

[Stefan]

By account of his son Henri (1933-2019) from the gigantic fortune he practically inherited "only some handkerchiefs with a monogram". But to be fair, there are more royal Houses where a gigantic fortune has been lost. It os difficult to keep a family fortune intact in exile, during world wars and when there are som many children to be equal heirs under the Napoleonic system where all children have an equal right (vs the British system where an eldest son can inherit all).

But the older Heni had only 3 sisters and probably inherited most of the fortune and almost nothing was left for his children so the split through inheritance can not have been the Issue.
and also in Germany all children have an equal right for inheritance but still some of the former reigning Houses manage to keep their fortunes intact

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Henri d'Orléans (1908-1999) "managed" it to lose almost the complete d'Orléans fortune due to really poor decisions. And his desilusional and difficult character did not help either, to keep unity and peace in his family.

By account of his son Henri (1933-2019) from the gigantic fortune he practically inherited "only some handkerchiefs with a monogram". But to be fair, there are more royal Houses where a gigantic fortune has been lost. It os difficult to keep a family fortune intact in exile, during world wars and when there are som many children to be equal heirs under the Napoleonic system where all children have an equal right (vs the British system where an eldest son can inherit all).

He also sold some items for than less than the actual value for short term gains. But Henri was lucky after the banishment of former French dynasties that there was still family properties and wealth to be enjoyed and for a deposed family especially in Republican France, he was lucky compared to other deposed dynasties.

 

[Marengo]

In addition, much of the wealth evaporated because of bad investments of his own fortune and that of his nephew Michel. Whatever was left was for some part directed to Monique Friesz, his mistress. Some grandiose numbers were going around but it has never been proven. Friesz claims that the money went to a secret account in Switzerland for the benifit of the then Duke of Vendome. That claim now is not very likely, considering the precarious position that the present count of Paris seems to be living in.

That's interesting. I found the quote in the book I was thinking of: "La comtesse de Paris n'a jamais été ma préférée, et pourtant ce jour-là, elle m'a touché." (The Countess of Paris has never been my favorite, yet that day, she touched me.) He then goes on to say how she urged him to visit the Count of Paris (Michael's uncle), who was living with his mistress, because he was unhappy and unwell.

Later, he says he pities her at Henri's funeral, trying to seem strong and proper, but torn.

He tells a story about her pushing aside an archaeology guide he had hired for a family trip and giving her own error-ridden version of history, but he seemed to tell that story with amusement.

He doesn't say much else about her, but he has some long passages about his uncle.

Thanks for sharing those stories, kalnel. I suppose the obituary was written shortly after the death of the Countess, which is a moment where people tend to be more positive than they would normally be. I have just ordered the book you mention, as your quotes have made me curious.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

He also sold some items for than less than the actual value for short term gains. But Henri was lucky after the banishment of former French dynasties that there was still family properties and wealth to be enjoyed and for a deposed family especially in Republican France, he was lucky compared to other deposed dynasties.

On itself there are pretty wealthy former royal and aristocrat families.

The Bourbon-Parmas are another example of a former royal family which once had a dazzling fortune and little is left by poor management and distribution over an amazing amount of children as well due to war, exile and confisquation.

And la profonde France is littered with noble families which have retained wealth and influence. They live in the better arrondissements of Paris, in countryside châteaux and provide captains of industry and finance.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

On itself there are pretty wealthy former royal and aristocrat families.

The Bourbon-Parmas are another example of a former royal family which once had a dazzling fortune and little is left by poor management and distribution over an amazing amount of children as well due to war, exile and confisquation.

And la profonde France is littered with noble families which have retained wealth and influence. They live in the better arrondissements of Paris, in countryside châteaux and provide captains of industry and finance.

There’s no doubt that there are wealthy aristocratic families in France and for the deposed German royals who are wealthy, but I was saying that in the context of Republican France since the Revolution, many would assume that the Revolution swallowed the fortunes of the royals, but instead what we see with the Orléans dynasty was classic tale of selfishness, mismanagement and incompetence (to a lesser degree exile, but they were lucky to have anything after exile).

 

[maria-olivia]

[


And la profonde France is littered with noble families which have retained wealth and influence. They live in the better arrondissements of Paris, in countryside châteaux and provide captains of industry and finance.[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely right . I remember you lived i the past near la Palouse , so you know how they are.

 

[maria-olivia]

On 14 october 2008 there was an Auction at Christies Paris : Succession de feus Monseigneur le Comte et Madame la Comtesse de Paris.
All was with a 0 more than the estimation.. Very private items. The Family of Orleans was there . I bougt a boiled paper mache bonbonniere representing Henri Duc de Bordeaux as child with written : " Henri, prie Dieu pour la France ". I have a certificate of provenence.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Henri d'Orléans (1908-1999) "managed" it to lose almost the complete d'Orléans fortune due to really poor decisions. And his desilusional and difficult character did not help either, to keep unity and peace in his family.

By account of his son Henri (1933-2019) from the gigantic fortune he practically inherited "only some handkerchiefs with a monogram". But to be fair, there are more royal Houses where a gigantic fortune has been lost. It os difficult to keep a family fortune intact in exile, during world wars and when there are som many children to be equal heirs under the Napoleonic system where all children have an equal right (vs the British system where an eldest son can inherit all).

It could have been placed in sensible foundations with the family involvement, but Henri truly made a mess of things aside from the issues of war, exile etc.