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  #101  
Old 11-26-2016, 06:06 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
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In the Netherlands a French nobleman, son of a Count, has requested incorporation into the Nobility of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, since he is a naturalized citizen of the kingdom. The High Council of Nobility has advised: no incorporation. Reason for the negative advice: France has no "similar system of nobility", which is a requirement for incorporation into the Nobility. The French aristocrat did not accept this refusal and started a lawsuit at the Court of Justice in Alkmaar, North-Holland. The Court has given the following verdict, which is interesting to read:

1 - the plaintiff, son of a French Count (deceased in 1980), has requested incorporation into the Nobility of the Kingdom of the Netherlands because he belongs to a French noble dynasty;

2 - Article 2 of the Nobility Act states that nobility can be aquired by elevation, recognition and incorporation. Incorporation can only happen when a petitioner belongs to a noble dynasty of a state with a comparable system of nobility;

3 - the defendant (the State of the Netherlands, more precize: the minister of the Interior, represented by the Land's Advocate) has rejected the request. Consideration was: France knows no "comparable system of nobility" and therefore the requested incorporation was not possible.

The Court of Justice:

According to information from the French Department of Justice, Direction des Affaires civiles et du seau, it has become clear that since the Troisième République (1870) no longer titles of nobility were granted in France. Only existing titles were (and are still) confirmed. It is also not possible for a foreign noble to become incorporated into the French nobility. With this the duty of the French Minister of Justice is limited to confirmation or verification of existing nobility.

The defendant (the Minister of the Interior, represented by the Land's Advocate) has also pointed to the fact that the French system of nobility is not comparable: in France the eldest male successor inherits the title. In the Netherlands the title and/or predicate is transferred to all children respectively the title to the eldest son and the predicate to all other children. Incorporation of the French nobleman would mean that all his children -in contradiction to original French Letters Patent- would inherit a title.

The Court of Justice agreed that the differences between the Dutch and French systems of nobility are too big to speak about comparable systems. On base of this consideration the Court of Justice was of the opinion that the defendant (the Minister of the Interior) was right in the rejection of the requested incorporation.

The plaintiff (the French nobleman) has brought forward that Princes and Princesses de Bourbon de Parme were incorporated into the nobility of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Also the title Prince of Orange is a French title. Because of this, also his request for incorporation should be honoured.

The defendant (the Minister of the Interior) has rejected these grounds: the incorporation of the Princes and Princesses de Bourbon de Parme happened on grounds of their descendance from the ruling Royal House of Spain, not on base of their French nobility. The defendant has also stated that the title Prince of Orange is a Dutch title which is born by the successor to the throne.

The Court of Justice was of the opinion that the defendant has given convincing motivation that these examples are no similar cases indeed and so an appeal on equal treatment was rightfully dismissed.

The plaintiff (the French nobleman) stated that the neither the High Council of Nobility nor the Minister of the Interior have denied that he is a French nobleman indeed.

The Court of Justice was of the opinion that the question whether the plaintiff was a nobleman or not, was not what the case was about. The fact that France has no similar system of nobility was sufficient for rejection of the requested incorporation, without any judgement about the noble birth of the plaintiff.

The plaintiff can appeal to a higher Court, if desired.

https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/in...=%22bourbon%22
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  #102  
Old 11-26-2016, 07:35 AM
maria-olivia's Avatar
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You don't have a lot of aristocrates in the Netherlands.
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  #103  
Old 11-26-2016, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
You don't have a lot of aristocrates in the Netherlands.
There is a quite lot of nobility. It started with the Adelslijst of 1815 (King Willem I). Below the titled nobility (so no jonkheren included). Red means: the title has become extinct.

prins (prinses)
  • de Bourbon de Parme
  • de Riquet de Caraman (chef is prince de Chimay)
  • Wellesley (chef is prins van Waterloo)
hertog (hertogin)
There are no Dukes in the Netherlands Nobility

markies (markiezin)
  • van Hoensbroeck (chef is markies van Hoensbroek)
  • Le Poer Trench - (chef is markies van Heusden)
graaf (gravin)
  • (d'Aubremé)
  • (d'Auxy)
  • Bentinck (comital branch).
  • de Borchgrave d'Altena
  • (Borluut)
  • van (von) Bylandt
  • van den Bosch
  • (du Chastel de la Howarderie)
  • Dumonceau
  • (van der Duyn) (comital branch)
  • Festetics de Tolna
  • de Ficquelmont
  • de Geloes
  • (van der Goltz)
  • (van Gronsfeld Diepenbroeck)
  • van Heerdt tot Eversberg (chef is graaf van Heerdt tot Eversberg)
  • (van Heiden/von Heyden)
  • de Hochepied
  • van Hoensbroeck
  • van Hogendorp (comital branch)
  • (von Hompesch-Rürich)
  • de Marchant et d'Ansembourg
  • (de Larrey)
  • van Limburg Stirum
  • van Lynden (comital branch)
  • (van Nassau la Lecq)
  • de Norman d'Audenhove
  • von Oberndorff
  • van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg
  • de Perponcher Sedlnitsky (comital branch)
  • von Quadt (comital branch)
  • van Randwijck (comital branch)
  • von Ranzow
  • van Rechteren
  • van Rechteren Limpurg (Rijksgraaf)
  • (van Reede)
  • (van Renesse)
  • de Riquet de Caraman (chef is prince de Chimay)
  • Schimmelpenninck
  • zu Stolberg-Stolberg
  • (van Wassenaer) (comital branch)
  • Wolff Metternich
  • van Zuylen van Nijevelt (chef is graaf Van Zuylen van Nijevelt)
burggraaf (burggravin)
  • du Bus de Gisignies
  • de Preud'homme d'Hailly de Nieuport (chef is burggraaf van Nieuport)
  • Roest van Alkemade (chef is burggraaf Roest van Alkemade)
baron (barones)
  • d'Ablaing van Giessenburg
  • van Aerssen Beijeren van Voshol
  • (Alberda)
  • (van Alderwerelt)
  • (Arrazola de Oñate)
  • van Asbeck
  • d'Aulnis de Bourouill
  • (van Aylva)
  • (van Balveren)
  • (Barbaix de Bonnines)
  • Baud
  • (de Beijer)
  • (de Bieberstein Rogalla Zawadsky)
  • (de Billehé de Valensart)
  • Bentinck (baronial branch)
  • (van Boecop)
  • van Boetzelaer
  • (van den Bogaerde)
  • (du Bois)
  • (von de Bongart)
  • van der Borch
  • (van der Hooghe van Borssele)
  • (Bounam de Ryckholt)
  • van Brakell
  • Brantsen
  • van Breugel
  • (Van Brienen)
  • (van Broeckhuysen)
  • (du Bus)
  • (du Bus de Warnaffe)
  • Calkoen
  • van der Capellen
  • (de Casembroot)
  • (Chassé)
  • (Clifford)
  • van Coeverden
  • Collot d'Escury
  • de Constant Rebecque
  • (Coppin)
  • (De Crassier)
  • Creutz
  • (Daelman)
  • (Dedel)
  • van Dedem
  • (van Delen)
  • (von Derfelden)
  • Dibbets
  • (Diert)
  • (van Doorn)
  • (van Dopff)
  • van Dorth tot Medler
  • (van der Duyn) (baronial branch)
  • van Eck
  • van Erp
  • (Fagel)
  • van der Feltz
  • (Forstner van Dambenoy)
  • (van Fridagh)
  • (Gansneb genaamd Van Tengnagel))
  • van Geen
  • de Geer
  • Gericke
  • (von Geusau)
  • Gevers
  • (de Gijselaar)
  • (de Girard de Mielet van Coehoorn)
  • (van der Goes)
  • (van Goltstein)
  • (de Graillet)
  • Groeninx van Zoelen
  • (Hacfort)
  • (van Haeften)
  • van Haersolte
  • (van Hall)
  • van Hangest d'Yvoy
  • van Hardenbroek
  • (van Haren)
  • van Harinxma thoe Slooten
  • de Heeckeren d'Anthès
  • van Heeckeren
  • van Heemstra
  • van Heerdt
  • van Heerdt tot Eversberg (chef is graaf van Heerdt tot Eversberg)
  • (van Heilmann van Stoutenburg)
  • (van der Heim)
  • van Hemert tot Dingshof
  • (van Herzeele)
  • de Heusch
  • van der Heyden
  • van der Heyden van Doorneveld
  • van Hogendorp (baronial branch)
  • (Hogguer)
  • van Hövell
  • (van Hugenpoth)
  • Huyssen van Kattendijke (chef is baron van Huyssen van Kattendijke)
  • van Imhoff
  • (von Innhausen und Kniphausen)
  • (d'Isendoorn à Blois)
  • van Isselmuden
  • van Ittersum
  • (van Keppel)
  • (de Keverberg)
  • (Klerck)
  • van Knobelsdorff
  • de Kock
  • Krayenhoff
  • (van Laer)
  • (de Lamberts de Cortenbach)
  • (Lampsins)
  • (Lampsins van den Velden)
  • van Lamsweerde
  • van Lawick
  • van Lawick van Pabst
  • (de Liedel)
  • von (de) Loë
  • van Lynden (baronial branch)
  • de Macar
  • Mackay
  • von Maltzahn
  • (van Massow)
  • (de Meer d'Osen)
  • Melvill van Carnbee
  • (de Mey)
  • Michiels van Kessenich
  • (Michiels van Verduyn)
  • Mollerus
  • Mulert
  • Van Nagell
  • van Nahuys
  • (de Negri)
  • (Nepveu)
  • (van Neukirchen genaamd Nyvenheim)
  • (de Norman d'Audenhove)
  • van Oldeneel tot Oldenzeel
  • (d'Olne)
  • (van Omphal)
  • d'Osy de Segwaert
  • (van Pabst)
  • van Pallandt
  • (van Panhuys)
  • (de Pélichy)
  • (de Perponcher Sedlnitsky) (baronial branch)
  • (van Plettenberg)
  • (de Plevits)
  • (du Pont)
  • (de Posson)
  • Prisse
  • (von Quadt)
  • Quarles
  • (von Rade)
  • van Raders
  • (de Raet)
  • van Randwijck (baronial branch)
  • van Reede
  • Rengers
  • (van Rhemen)
  • (von Riedesel d'Eisenbach)
  • van Rijckevorsel
  • Röell
  • Roest van Alkemade (chef is burggraaf Roest van Alkemade)
  • (de Rosen)
  • (de Roy van Zuydewijn/de Roye van Wichen)
  • (de Saint-Rémy)
  • (de Salis)
  • Sandberg
  • Schimmelpenninck van der Oye
  • thoe Schwartzenberg en Hohenlansberg
  • (de Senarclens de Grancy)
  • Sirtema van Grovestins
  • Six van Oterleek
  • (Slicher)
  • van Slingelandt
  • Sloet van de Beele
  • Sloet tot Everlo
  • Sloet
  • de Smeth
  • Snouckaert van Schauburg
  • (van Spaen)
  • Speyart van Woerden
  • Steengracht
  • (Straalman)
  • Stratenus
  • (Strick van Linschoten)
  • van Styrum
  • Sweerts de Landas
  • van Sytzama
  • Taets van Amerongen
  • (van Tengnagell)
  • Testa
  • (de Thier) (chef was baron de Thier)
  • van Till
  • (Tindal)
  • (des Tombe)
  • (Torck)
  • (du Tour)
  • (Travers)
  • (de Trevey de Charmail)
  • van Tuyll van Serooskerken
  • van Utenhove
  • van Verschuer
  • (Verstolk)
  • (van Voërst)
  • van Voorst tot Voorst
  • de Vos van Steenwijk
  • (Vosch van Avesaet)
  • (van Vredenburch)
  • de Warzée d'Hermalle
  • van Wassenaer (baronial branch)
  • (de Watteville)
  • de Weichs de Wenne
  • (van Westerholt)
  • (van Westreenen van Tiellandt)
  • (van Wevelinchoven de Sittert)
  • (van Wickevoort Crommelin)
  • de Wijkerslooth
  • van Wijnbergen
  • Wittert
  • von Wydenbruck
  • (de Wymar)
  • van Zuylen van Nievelt
  • van Zuylen van Nyevelt (chef is graaf Van Zuylen van Nijevelt)
ridder (jonkvrouw)
  • (Alewijn) (knightly branch)
  • (de Behr)
  • (du Bus) (knightly branch)
  • de Bye (Van der Does de Bye)
  • (van Citters)
  • von Devivere
  • (van der Heim) (knightly branch)
  • Huyssen van Kattendijke (chef is baron van Huyssen van Kattendijke)
  • (van Lockhorst)
  • de Maurissens
  • (Pauw van Wieldrecht)
  • de Plevits
  • van Rappard
  • (van der Renne)
  • Bosch van Rosenthal
  • (Nedermeijer von Rosenthal)
  • de van der Schueren
  • de Stuers
  • (de Warzée d'Hermalle) (knightly branch)
  • (van Westreenen van Tiellandt) (knightly branch)
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  #104  
Old 12-18-2016, 07:58 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
[...] Reason for the negative advice: France has no "similar system of nobility", which is a requirement for incorporation into the Nobility.

[...]

The defendant (the Minister of the Interior, represented by the Land's Advocate) has also pointed to the fact that the French system of nobility is not comparable: in France the eldest male successor inherits the title. In the Netherlands the title and/or predicate is transferred to all children respectively the title to the eldest son and the predicate to all other children. Incorporation of the French nobleman would mean that all his children -in contradiction to original French Letters Patent- would inherit a title.

[...]

The defendant (the Minister of the Interior) has rejected these grounds: the incorporation of the Princes and Princesses de Bourbon de Parme happened on grounds of their descendance from the ruling Royal House of Spain, not on base of their French nobility.

[...]

https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/in...=%22bourbon%22
Thank you very much for the translation. I don't understand why the Bourbons were incorporated on grounds of their descendance from the Royal House of Spain if it is a requirement for the system of nobility to be "comparable" to the Dutch system. In Spain the titles are also inherited by the successor but not the other children.
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  #105  
Old 12-18-2016, 08:55 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Thank you very much for the translation. I don't understand why the Bourbons were incorporated on grounds of their descendance from the Royal House of Spain if it is a requirement for the system of nobility to be "comparable" to the Dutch system. In Spain the titles are also inherited by the successor but not the other children.
The Nobility Act with the requirement that for incorporation there must be "a comparable system of Nobility" was established in 1994 but with a transitional period of five years.

The children of Princess Irene did their request on March 1st 1996, so within this transitional period. Therefore the High Council of Nobility gave a positive advice on their petition "considering their descendance from a branch of the ruling royal family of Spain".

Philippe de Bourbon, Duke of Anjou / Felipe V de Borbón, King of Spain
x Elisabetta Farnese, Duchess of Parma
= Philippe

Philippe de Bourbon de Parme
x Élisabeth de France
= Ferdinand

Ferdinand de Bourbon de Parme
x Maria Amalia von Österreich
= Louis

Louis de Bourbon de Parme
x María Luisa de España
= Carlos

Carlos II de Bourbon de Parme
x Maria Teresa di Savoia
= Carlos

Carlos III de Bourbon de Parme
x Louise de France
= Robert

Robert de Bourbon de Parme
x Maria Antónia de Portugal
= Xavier

Xavier de Bourbon de Parme
x Madeleine de Bourbon-Busset
= Carlos Hugo

Carlos Hugo de Bourbon de Parme
x Irene der Nederlanden
= Carlos Xavier
= Margarita
= Jaime
= María Carolina
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