Annulment for the Count of Paris and the Duchess of Montpensier


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It is an awful procedure and should be abolished, along with a number of other awful procedures of the church. Divorce is divorce and what makes this other procedure "holy"?
 
Either you believe in God or you don't believe. If you believe you believe these procedures are holy. Everybody make their own choice, thank God we are free to believe or not !
 
Childern?

Annulment when children are present, proof of a loving consensual relationship seems wrong.

Kind of getting tired of the lack of focus for our long held establishment of civilized living a slap in the face of families who have done so much for our happiness, freedom, rights and joy.

Peace,

E-T
 
As NotAPretender has pointed out above, it is highly likely that both parties supported the annulment process, otherwise the annulment would not have been granted.
Whatever the case, none of us are in a position to read the mind of the duchesse de Montpensier nor that of the comte de Paris.
 
So sweet of him to wait till September to get married......so he does not overshadow his son's wedding.
 
Isn't the princess of Jonville already 'upgraded' to duchess of France and even to countess of Paris?
 
Isn't the princess of Jonville already 'upgraded' to duchess of France and even to countess of Paris?

Yes the Count of Paris introduced the title Duke of France when he succeeded his father in 1999 so that there was a title he could share with his wife. And since the death of his mother she also uses Countess of Paris.
 
From what I have read - and I will have to go dig it up if anyone would like - the civil part of the marriage has already taken place in the presence of immediate family; the groom's parents were both in attendence and were seated next to each other. I would think that the religious ceremony would also be equally - no pun intended - civil.

Clearly, everyone has put a lot of thought and effort into this. It's gratifying to see, from my perspective.
 
Noblesse oblige... It is the heir's wedding after all. The last thing both parents want is to show tension in public and spoil one of the most important moments in Duke Jean's life.
 
Sad news but that is what both parties wanted there is nothing anyone can do about it.That is just the way.
 
Time is the greatest healer. These two have been divorced for longer than they have been married. So whatever animosity existed has evaporated.
It is only polite for divorced parents to behave amicably when they both show up to their child's wedding. I am certain the Comte was not present at Princess Marie's wedding but I cannot remember if he was present at Eudes'.
 
Why was he not present at Marie's wedding?
 
I hate to veer off a bit, but mention was made earlier in the thread of Prince Thibaut who was the present Count of Paris' youngest brother.
Thibaut died tragically in Africa. He was married to Marion Gordon Orr who was Scottish and somewhat older than Thibaut.
Of course, this marriage was not recognized by the old Count of Paris.
Thibaut and Marion had two sons, one of whom died in infancy.
The surviving son (Robert?) has a title and is pictured rarely at family events.
Whatever happened to Marion? Is she still alive? When Thibaut died, she became very reclusive - occasionally she was photographed at an event attended by the old Count.
Thanks, everybody -
 
Quite a few years ago (2001), someone posted the following about Marion and her son on the alt.talk.royalty discussion group:

According to *Le comte de Paris et sa descendance*, by Philippe de Montjouvent, 1998, the dowager Comtesse de La Marche (Marion) leads a discreet life at Thoiry, on a farm known as "Ecu", which Vicomte Paul de La Panousse (a long-standing friend of Thibaut) has placed at her disposal. (The family has lived at Ecu since November 1981.) Thibaut and Marion's surviving son, Robert, Comte de La Marche (b. 1976) was educated in France, and later at Stowe, in England. During 1996-1997, Robert completed his military service at Bourg-Saint-Maurice, in Savoie, with the "7e Bataillon de Chasseurs Alpins". Upon return to civilian life, he entered a British university where he his studying (at least, in 1998, when the book was published) economics and languages.

prince thibaut of france - alt.talk.royalty | Google Groups
 
Robert, Compte de la Marce was listed as one of the heirs of Madame's estate. So he must have received what would have been his father's share of her inheritance.
With regard to Princess Marie she was married in 1989 and her relationship may have been a bit distant at that time. I also remember that the then compte de Clermont was not present in other family weddings because as a divorced man he either was not invited or could not attend.
 
Very nice article in the Point de Vue of this week about the love story between Henri, the count of Paris and Micaéla, the countess of Paris.
We learn that the prince Henri met Micaéla in 1974, after his separation with the duchess Marie-Thérèse of Wurtemberg.
Some infos about the future religious wedding : The count of Paris main wedding witness will be his cousin Maria da Gloria d'Orléans-Bragance, the duchess of Segorbe and Micaéla's witness will be another cousin, the duchess of Magenta.
After the ceremony the reception will take place at the castle of Arcangues.
 
The count of Paris main wedding witness will be his cousin Maria da Gloria d'Orléans-Bragance, the duchess of Segorbe.

Now that we're talking about annulments and divorces, I wonder whether her first marriage (to The Crown Prince of Yugoslavia) was annulled?
 
Now that we're talking about annulments and divorces, I wonder whether her first marriage (to The Crown Prince of Yugoslavia) was annulled?
Good question, with two answers in my opinion:
1- we're talking about a Catholic marriage (the one of Henri and Micaela), so I think that if she will be the witness, she can be his witness, or the Church would not consent this.
2- CP Alexander is Orthodox, and I think their marriage has been Orthodox and not Catholic; if so, she didn't need an annulment.
 
The Comte and his wife probably grew tired of the snubs...at the funeral Mass of the Comtesse de Paris(Henri's mother) during the Sign of Peace, Queen Fabiola of Belgium made a point to walk past Micaela and embrace Marie-Therese first, as if to emphasize the point that in the eyes of the Church the Duchess of Montpensier was still Henri's wife and took precedence over Micaela.

It really is a big old mess and I agree with the poster who stated that unless the couple sought the annulment in order to be able to receive the Sacraments, it really is rather nasty and unnecessary business.

The Royal family of France sounds more dysfunctional than some soap operas!
 
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A close friend of mine went through the catholic annulment process. yes it is a complicated process, intimidating, long (3 years + for my friend) etc. but in the end believe it or not she found it therapeutic. Let me explain some facts: BOTH parties are contacted and both have to testify- and they have to bring witnesses (close friends or family) [Previous poster is right: it is almost impossible to get an annulment unless both parties agree.] Fact is during the divorce the process is all about splitting property, visiting rights, money, anger etc. no one talks about how /why the community, or the bond of marriage failed. The annulllment process involves detailed interviews with both parties - including questions about marital life etc.) My friend was reluctant in the begining (her husband wanted teh annulment), but according to her this process turned out to be beneficial for both of them, almost like therapy.
Only one person's experience.

No one can presume to know what either the Count or the Duchess truly feels.
I believe it was 1955 or 1957 when the got married, back then family and society pressure was a lot more than it is now.
 
Vincent has very kindly provided us with some information about the upcoming religious wedding of the comte de Paris in late September, here.
As the event is over five months away the wedding thread will remain closed until closer to the event.
 
As usual that kind of news seems to be ery upsetting for some of you and i really wonder why ?

Ther annulment was granted on the 18th of novembre, i have seen the paper, but teh comte de paris had nothing to do with the fact that it was granted at this time. He started the procedure more than 30 years ago, it has come to an end last novembre and that is the decision of the holy siege, not his;
Further more, divorce still is a big problem for strict catholics. If you are in such a position you cant' even receive holy communion at mass, therefore you are in state of permanent sin; The comte de Paris has been trying for 30 years to reconcile himself with his church, and finally he did. This is great for him.
I am catholic, but not very strict, but i do admit that in these matters the authority of the pope is absolute; I do not think it concerns me, i hate weddings myself, but i am fine with people believing in it.
Furthermore, i was at the civil wedding, the duchesse de Montpensier actually kissed the current comtesse de Paris, obviously both of them knew about the annulment. Why should we juge? if they don't.
Then, this is not such a rare case, as one of you mentionned, princess maria da Gloria got her annulment from prince alexander of yougoslvia (they had two weddings, one orthodox and one catholic), the curren,t duke of aoste got his too, king henri the VI got his from his wedding to princess Marguerite de Valois, princesse Caroline de Monaco got hers from her wedding to philippe Junot.
They are two ways to look at this decision :
If you are catholic, fine you accept the holy siege decision; The comte de Paris is reconcilied with his faith, he can remary religiously, and that is the end of it.
If you are not, why should you care, that decision does not affect anyone appart from the comte, his first and second wife, and apparently they hace accepted it; Why should we be more strict ?
Furthermore, i think that this story between the comte de Paris and hs second wife is really a love story. During more than 30 years, the all family has given them a very hard time, because they were "in sin". The comte was not invited to his mother's birthday, and both of them were not invited to any family wedding because of their situation. At the end, they started beeing invited at some of them but only at teh reception, not at church...
All this is over, because they ca
 
sorry, wrong touch and i did not have time to read a last time, so please excuse my mistakes;
My last sentence was, all this is over, because they can marry religiously, the comte de Paris is not my favourite prince in the world, but i can only rejoice that he finally can do what he and his wife, have been waiting for during 30 years.
 
Warren, You took a wise decision.
Now it is the religious wedding of Prince Jean, Duc de Vendome..
And later the RF may speak about his father's religious wedding , but not at the same time.
What Vincent wrote is what happens really , being always "modeste" he knows a lot about the Orléans' family and other RF.
 
Although I am a Roman Catholic, I feel it ludicrous for the Chruch to annul a marriage of many years, which produced 5 children. Poor Duchess of Montpesier, left on the lurch by her husband with two of her five children heavily handicapped.
 
If the report is correct, the Vatican has annulled the first marriage of the comte de Paris and Marie Thérèse of Württemberg. Although married for about 27 years and five children the Church has now ruled that the marriage never existed. Hmm :confused:

I don't believe his claims that he was forced into the marriage by his father. Nobody can force a person to do anything - ultimately they made a choice! Marriages can disinigrate at any point, any year. I think it's wrong for the marriage to be annulled - very insulting to the wife & kids!
 
I regret making that post early on in the piece when I was ignorant of the processes involved in an annulment so I'm not that comfortable in it being quoted.
NotAPretender has eloquently shared her own experience earlier in the thread and ended by saying that she "felt a sense of peace and freedom". We also know (now, in my case) that it is virtually impossible to obtain an annulment if both parties aren't agreeable. That being so, and as it is entirely a religious matter between the two parties and the Holy See, I now believe the annulment of the marriage is really nothing to do with any of us.
 
my parents were married for 37 years and had 4 children. they had their marriage annulled - for my father it was so he could remarry and for my mother it was so she could enter religious life. for a devout catholic, when it is necessary to end a marriage, the annullment process is very important.
 
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