Vatican City State: Pope Francis accession/Inauguration & Current Events:March 2013-

[Moonmaiden23]

Hi GG...been there done that.

Yep, he is a saint!

 

[Mariel]

I am fascinated that members of the Swedish royal family took communion at Catholic services, even though they are Lutheran. This is not allowed in most Catholic churches.
However, in the Episcopal churches, all baptized Christians are invited to take communion, and others are invited to come forward for a blessing. This became a point of misery for the local Catholic priest, because the Episcopal priest allowed Catholic patients in the nursing home to receive communion, and they were glad to get it (I heard). Some Catholic priests might be less stringent. It seems that Victoria and her father must have been making a statement about hoping for reunion among denominations. Or else were ignorant of the rules, which is not likely.
I believe Maxima is outside the Catholic church rules if she is not raising her children Catholic. Same as Princess Michael.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Mariel, if I remember correctly both Maxima and Princess Michael received dispensations from the Holy See to raise their children as Protestants. It's very rare that such a dispensation is given, but neither of them violated Church law. Both are still Catholics in good standing.

What annoyed me about Victoria and her father receiving the Eucharist is that a baptized Catholic has to meet certain requirements before approaching the Sacrament(completely free from mortal sin, if necessary go to confession first) yet two Protestants who don't even accept Catholic teaching on this most sacred of all sacraments just mosey on up?? Bill Clinton caused quite an uproar during his Presidency when he did this...and the last two Popes have specifically called it an "abuse".

I prefer to think that the Swedish royals were simply unaware of the Catholic position on this, rather than that they were deliberately disrespectful.

 

[Bine221]

Mariel, if I remember correctly both Maxima and Princess Michael received dispensations from the Holy See to raise their children as Protestants. It's very rare that such a dispensation is given, but neither of them violated Church law. Both are still Catholics in good standing.

What annoyed me about Victoria and her father receiving the Eucharist is that a baptized Catholic has to meet certain requirements before approaching the Sacrament(completely free from mortal sin, if necessary go to confession first) yet two Protestants who don't even accept Catholic teaching on this most sacred of all sacraments just mosey on up?? Bill Clinton caused quite an uproar during his Presidency when he did this...and the last two Popes have specifically called it an "abuse".

I prefer to think that the Swedish royals were simply unaware of the Catholic position on this, rather than that they were deliberately disrespectful.

Hi, Moonmaiden,
Protestants do not see this is break of the sacrament, as it is allowed in Protestantism, that ALL CRISTIANS, whether they are catholic or protestant, are able to receive the Eucharist.
Bye Bine

 

[blauerengel]

Mariel, if I remember correctly both Maxima and Princess Michael received dispensations from the Holy See to raise their children as Protestants. It's very rare that such a dispensation is given, but neither of them violated Church law. Both are still Catholics in good standing.

What annoyed me about Victoria and her father receiving the Eucharist is that a baptized Catholic has to meet certain requirements before approaching the Sacrament(completely free from mortal sin, if necessary go to confession first) yet two Protestants who don't even accept Catholic teaching on this most sacred of all sacraments just mosey on up?? Bill Clinton caused quite an uproar during his Presidency when he did this...and the last two Popes have specifically called it an "abuse".

I prefer to think that the Swedish royals were simply unaware of the Catholic position on this, rather than that they were deliberately disrespectful.

Somehow I can´t believe that Vitoria was unaware that the Catholic eucharestie is only for Roman Catholics(she is always very well-prepared and knowledgeable),however her father might have done it because he didn´t want to stand out and join the crowd. The Habsburg family in Austria has always been overly attached to the Roman Catholic church-the Catholic faith was important and no one could have married into the family without converting. (Maybe there were exceptions,but the figureheads were all strictly Catholic!)
Maria Theresia even founded a special unit of policemen (Sittenwache) who were punishing sins thatwere condemned in the bible...however,they soon had too many people who were caught for commiting Catholic sins that she could not upkeep her strict regime and had do understand that she could only punish the worldly crimes

Today we have a movement called "Ökumene" that is celebrating the uniting ties between Catholic,Lutheran and other religions derived from the holy bible because they all have the same foundation and believe in the same god.Maybe CP Victoria is following that belief and wants to stretch out her hand to other religions of the book.IMO it was a nice gesture and I don´t believe that anyone is free of sins but just the same everyone is entitled to receive the blessings of god

 

[vkrish]

Dont you feel sending The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester to such a high profile international event with all Heads of States and heirs to the throne, a bit too much undermining? Its not the coronation of King of Tonga, afterall..
And inseating order and protocol, they would be pushed to some corner of the Church..

 

[lucien]

Dont you feel sending The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester to such a high profile international event with all Heads of States and heirs to the throne, a bit too much undermining? Its not the coronation of King of Tonga, afterall..
And inseating order and protocol, they would be pushed to some corner of the Church..

No they won't...It's at the St.Peter Square,not inside the Basilica and they will be seated 2nd row as non -heads of State and non-Reigning Royals will.They do however represent HM The Queen Elizabeth,and therefore will be seated and treated accordingly.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Dont you feel sending The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester to such a high profile international event with all Heads of States and heirs to the throne, a bit too much undermining?

Which other heads of state and heirs are going that aren't Catholic?
Maxima and the Luxembourgs are going because they are Catholic. Yes Maxima is to be Queen of a Protestant country but it's quite lucky for her that she can get around going.

 

[Ish]

I would think it to be a bit inappropriate for a Protestant head of state (especially one, such as Queen Elizabeth, where being Catholic is essentially prohibited in the line of succession) to attend the ascension/inauguration of a new pope.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I would think it to be a bit inappropriate for a Protestant head of state (especially one, such as Queen Elizabeth, where being Catholic is essentially prohibited in the line of succession) to attend the ascension/inauguration of a new pope.

Current illness taken into account you wouldn't see Elizabeth going. Knowing that Charles attended JPII funeral and Philip attended Benedicts inaugural mass without fuss, sending Charles wouldn't have been too bad.

 

[Meraude]

- Sweden: ?

- Norway: ?

There are no plans in neither the Swedish nor the Norwegian royal calendar for anyone to go to the Inauguration of the pope on March 19.

 

[maria-olivia]

Two Catholic Royal Ladies "in blanc" Queen Paola and Grand Duchess MT. The others
Princess of Asturia , Princess of Monaco and Princess of Liechtenstein "in black".

 

[Kataryn]

Current illness taken into account you wouldn't see Elizabeth going. Knowing that Charles attended JPII funeral and Philip attended Benedicts inaugural mass without fuss, sending Charles wouldn't have been too bad.

I guess she would have sent a more senior Royal if not for last year's sermon of the new pope on the 30. anniversary of the invasion of the Falkland islands.

The then Cardinal said, as reported by the Independant; ""We come to pray for those who have fallen, sons of the country who went out to defend their mother country, to reclaim that which is theirs and was usurped from them." And four years ago he said to the families of Argentine soldiers killed in the conflict before they travelled to the military cemetery on the islands: "Go and kiss this land which is ours, and seem to us far away."

Source: Falkland Islanders greet election of Argentine as Pope Francis with surprise - Americas - World - The Independent

Which is not a pleasant speech for HM whose son fought in the war, too and who, too, lost subjects who protected the islands from Argentinian invasion.

So I can very well understand that the British queen sent only the most minor Royals doing Royal duties to represent her when being represented she must be....

 

[An Ard Ri]

Two Catholic Royal Ladies "in blanc" Queen Paola and Grand Duchess MT. The others
Princess of Asturia , Princess of Monaco and Princess of Liechtenstein "in black".

Wasn't the Princess of Monaco accorded the Privilège du blanc by Pope Benedidict XVI?

Pope Francis coat of arms as cardinal rooted in humility


Pope Francis coat of arms as cardinal rooted in humility - YouTube

Pope Francis has sent a greeting to the people of Ireland to mark St Patrick's Day.


Pope sends greeting to mark St Patrick

 

[kbk]

THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS ISSUED BY THE PRESS SECRETARY TO THE QUEEN The Queen will be represented by The Duke of Gloucester at the Inaugural Mass for Pope Francis which will be held in St Peter’s Square, Vatican City, on Tuesday 19 March. His Royal Highness will be accompanied by The Duchess of Gloucester. Background The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester attended the Beatification of Pope John-Paul in 2011 and were in Rome to celebrate the teaching and history of the British Pontifical Colleges in 2012. https://www.royal.gov.uk/LatestNews...loucestertoattendtheInauguralMassforPope.aspx

 

[NGalitzine]

Mariel, if I remember correctly both Maxima and Princess Michael received dispensations from the Holy See to raise their children as Protestants. It's very rare that such a dispensation is given, but neither of them violated Church law. Both are still Catholics in good standing.

Can't speak for Maxima, but Marie Christine certainly did not receive a dispensation. In fact Paul VI refused them a RC wedding that was planned for Vienna because the children were to be raised as Anglican. The ended up having only a civil wedding ceremony in Vienna. Many years later, after the birth of their children and just before JPII made his visit to the UK the church did allow the Archbishop of Westminster to bless their marriage in a private ceremony.

 

[maria-olivia]

Prince Charles had to postpone his wedding day because he assisted Pope jean Paul II's funerals on April 8th 2005.
For a Pope's inauguration the UK should send a Major Royal .

 

[lucien]

Which other heads of state and heirs are going that aren't Catholic?
Maxima and the Luxembourgs are going because they are Catholic. Yes Maxima is to be Queen of a Protestant country but it's quite lucky for her that she can get around going.

Máxima isn't going because she is catholic,she is going to accompany her husband who is the one to represent The Netherlands on behalve of HM The Queen.That is the sole reason,a spouse accompanying her husband.The Lux Grand Dukes go to The Vatican most of all,and this time HRH Prince Felix will accompany them.

Wasn't the Princess of Monaco accorded the Privilège du blanc by Pope Benedidict XVI?

Yes,I have seen her wearing the white veil during a private audience An.
Shortly after the wedding.

I guess she would have sent a more senior Royal if not for last year's sermon of the new pope on the 30. anniversary of the invasion of the Falkland islands.

The then Cardinal said, as reported by the Independant; ""We come to pray for those who have fallen, sons of the country who went out to defend their mother country, to reclaim that which is theirs and was usurped from them." And four years ago he said to the families of Argentine soldiers killed in the conflict before they travelled to the military cemetery on the islands: "Go and kiss this land which is ours, and seem to us far away."

Source: Falkland Islanders greet election of Argentine as Pope Francis with surprise - Americas - World - The Independent

Which is not a pleasant speech for HM whose son fought in the war, too and who, too, lost subjects who protected the islands from Argentinian invasion.

So I can very well understand that the British queen sent only the most minor Royals doing Royal duties to represent her when being represented she must be....

Oh but that has absolutely nothing to do with the level of representation this tuesday.The Falklands are no issue between the british Royals,or rather the United Kingdom and the Vatican State,regardless the origines of the Pontiff.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I guess she would have sent a more senior Royal if not for last year's sermon of the new pope on the 30. anniversary of the invasion of the Falkland islands.

Falklands would have absolutely no bearing on who The Queen sent. Falklands has nothing to do with the royal family or the current Pope now. It's a political argument and Elizabeth is above politics.

Anyone see the various stories about the Cardinal Napier who says paedophilia is a mental illness not a crime?

 

[kbk]

Yes,I have seen her wearing the white veil during a private audience An.
Shortly after the wedding.

Was she really given the privilege of white or just made a faux pas? The Vatican press officials said that she was actually eiglible to wear white in the presence of the Pope but maybe they were just polite? She is a spouse of a foreign head of state, so it would be inappropriate for them to question her dress and style. But there was definitely no a statement that the Prince of Monaco was given the status of Catholicissimus. Anyway, today the papal dress code is optional...vide Cherie Blair and both female Irish Presidents.

Falklands would have absolutely no bearing on who The Queen sent. Falklands has nothing to do with the royal family or the current Pope now. It's a political argument and Elizabeth is above politics.

I totally agree that the Falklands have nothing to do here. The Duke of Gloucester is the Queen's senior cousin and he has recently represented her at two major occassions in Vatican. It's not like they'are sending Princess Michael.

 

[Pranter]

I think this discussion went on recently in a Princess Charlene thread and I'm pretty sure she had permission. There's no reason she wouldn't of....she's Catholic princess married to a Catholic monarch.

Papal dress code isn't optional...you can't wear white (it would be a oops moment) unless you have the right to do so.


LaRae

 

[blauerengel]

Charlene and the Monegasque RF is Catholic,so I don´t see any reason why she should not have the right to wear a white outfit!
No proper princess,especially someone who is married to the Crown prince or head of the Royal family, would dare to make such a mistake-for such an important meeting they (or their helping stylists/office) would do researches and make sure that they follow all the written and unwritten rules that are required to accept.

 

[maria-olivia]

Only RH are wearing white outfit

 

[NGalitzine]

BBC News - Pope Francis wants 'poor Church for the poor'
If Francis wants a "poor church for thr poor" I wonder if that means he will start divesting the Church of some of its assets.

Also, The Archbishop of York will represent the Church of England at the Popes installation, but he will return to England in time to attend the enthronement of the new Archbishop of Canterbury on Thursday.

 

[NGalitzine]

Only RH are wearing white outfit

Not according to The Vatican, they said the privilege now includes all female Catholic monarchs and the wives of Catholic monarchs. Even the Vatican updates things every now and then, even if it sometimes takes centuries.

 

[kbk]

Charlene and the Monegasque RF is Catholic,so I don´t see any reason why she should not have the right to wear a white outfit!
No proper princess,especially someone who is married to the Crown prince or head of the Royal family, would dare to make such a mistake-for such an important meeting they (or their helping stylists/office) would do researches and make sure that they follow all the written and unwritten rules that are required to accept.

It's not like she does not have the right to wear white. Actually, she can wear whatever she feels is appropriate to wear.

Traditionally, the privilege du blanc is accorded to the female Sovereigns and consorts of the monarchs that had special status of "most Catholic", Catholicissimus, not all monarchs and their consorts who are of Catholic faith. Today, only the Kings of Spain and Belgium as well as the Grand Duke of Luxembourg meet the requirements. Thus, the only women alive who have the privilege to wear white in the Pope's presence are Sofia of Spain, Paola and Fabiola of Belgium, and Maria Teresa of Luxembourg. As I said, the most formal and traditional dress code at the papal court is no longer obligatory, especially for such high ranking guests like the monarchs and their spouses or presidents or prime ministers. I am sure that the Blairs, the two female Irish Presidents as well as the Princess of Monaco were fully aware of what should they wear while meeting the Pope but they did it in their own way and nothing really happened. The Vatican could surely stated that Charlene could wear white because, first, she is a royal consort and was accompanying her husband, a head of state visiting his counterpart, and second, she is a Catholic coming from traditionally Catholic realm. But even when Cherie Blair made her obvious faux pas, was it really something more than a fuss in the so-called press like the Daily Mail? I doubt that the Vatican official had sleepless nights because of what she did. Come on, it's the 21st century.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Pope Francis thanks journalists for their work during conclave


Pope Francis thanks journalists for their work during conclave - YouTube

 

[Meraude]

Anyway, today the papal dress code is optional...vide Cherie Blair and both female Irish Presidents.

Raisa Gorbacheva raised many eyebrows in 1989 when she wore a bright red dress when meeting pope John Paul II.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

No they won't...It's at the St.Peter Square,not inside the Basilica and they will be seated 2nd row as non -heads of State and non-Reigning Royals will.They do however represent HM The Queen Elizabeth,and therefore will be seated and treated accordingly.

I wonder why HM is not sending the Catholic Kents?

 

[Iluvbertie]

I wonder why HM is not sending the Catholic Kents?

The royal 'Catholic Kents' consist of the reclusive HRH The Duchess of Kent and HRH Princess Michael of Kent. One has retired from public duty and the other has never been an official working royal. Both are married to Anglicans and even then Prince Michael doesn't carry out official duties. Any other Roman Catholic Kents aren't royals and don't carry out duties on her behalf at all - ever.

The Kents are also lower in the pecking order of the royals behind the Gloucesters as well. Sending the 21st in line to the throne (Duke of Gloucester) is low enough in the pecking order without going down to the 30s in the line with The Duke of Kent at 31st.