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  #61  
Old 03-13-2013, 11:45 PM
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I have a question, not about the Pope at the Vatican but a bit more logistical. What happens with his personal effects in Argentina? Its not like he can go pop home to pick them up. Benedict didn't live to far from his home.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:04 AM
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I was truly amazed when it was announced that the new Pontiff will be known as Pope Francis. It hasn't been official yet which St. Francis he is choosing to honor, but St. Francis of Assisi is the first that comes to my mind. I am no longer a Catholic but growing up Catholic, the simple words of the Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi are ones that I remember well.

In such troubled times in the Catholic Church, it seems that they've chosen a simple man of faith. Perhaps the simple words of Francis of Assisi will once again lead the faithful. Its beautiful and felt it appropriate to post here.

Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen
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  #63  
Old 03-14-2013, 12:05 AM
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I have a question, not about the Pope at the Vatican but a bit more logistical. What happens with his personal effects in Argentina? Its not like he can go pop home to pick them up. Benedict didn't live to far from his home.
I'm sure he has a personal secretary back home who can pack his stuff up to send to him. Or maybe even his family.

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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I was truly amazed when it was announced that the new Pontiff will be known as Pope Francis. It hasn't been official yet which St. Francis he is choosing to honor, but St. Francis of Assisi is the first that comes to my mind.
It was confirmed that he picked the name for St. Francis of Assisi
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/13...lect-new-pope/


Quote:
[Updated at 4:53 p.m. ET] We've just been given confirmation about which Francis the new pope is honoring in his choice of name.
The new pope took the name Francis in honor of St. Francis of Assisi because he is a lover of the poor, Vatican spokesman the Rev. Tom Rosica told CNN.
Also, the new pope should be known as Pope Francis, not Pope Francis I, Rosica said.
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  #64  
Old 03-14-2013, 12:43 AM
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Very big congratulations to Pope Francis.

Argentinas Jorge Bergoglio Elected Pope Francis I Waves

White Smoke Billows From The Chimney On The Roof Of The
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:00 AM
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Indeed!!

This man,this voice & smile.The charisma he ooses the likes of which have not been seen since the days of HH Pope John XXIII.He generated an overwhelming impact last night.

A humble,modest,human man.

The Inaugural Mass of the new Pontiff will take place on tuesday march 19th.
http://www.vatican.va/news_services/...sion/index.htm
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  #66  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:10 AM
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I hate the name Francis for girls and for boys.

Anyway wasn't this vote quite fast? I believe they went in Monday or Tuesday to elect someone and come out Wednesday with a sure winner. I'm not Catholic so don't know much, but is his age going to cause a problem like it did for the former Pope? I know JP2 was Pope for decades but how old was he when he was elected?
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  #67  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:21 AM
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I really like it that they chose a Jesuit. There is something sinister about Opus Dei and I read that the jesuits are the most ardent critics of said organisation whose work is at the base of a lot of nasty rumours about the catholic clerus. So hopefully pope Francis will surround himself with people of a different mind and clear out the Vatican if there is need to do so.
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  #68  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Anyway wasn't this vote quite fast? I believe they went in Monday or Tuesday to elect someone and come out Wednesday with a sure winner. I'm not Catholic so don't know much, but is his age going to cause a problem like it did for the former Pope? I know JP2 was Pope for decades but how old was he when he was elected?
As cardinal Bergoglio was "runner up" in the conclave of 2005 when cardinal Ratzinger was elected pope, it's not that surprising with a quick vote.

Cardinal Wojtyla was 58 years old in 1978 when he was elected pope. Maybe there is a younger candidate for the papacy in the future among the cardinals who was considered being a bit too young and/or inexperienced at the moment, but who would be a perfect choice ten years or so from now.
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  #69  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:40 AM
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I remember reading in 2005 that they would never again elect a young pope because too many cardinals missed the opportunity as they grew old under JPII.

This man is already old - and looked it. No charisma but just old - sad day for the church as they will probably be back in about 5 years to do it all again.
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  #70  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:51 AM
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Organisations in crisis select their CEO on the basis of experience and ability to cope with the current issues that led to the problems. And pragmatically, I think that is what has happened here. A man with the background that gives the clergy confidence in him personally, and who has the credibility that means he is not tainted.

In the business world, the kind of CEO who radically sorts out a business isn't usually the one that leads it on to the next stage of development so Iluvbertie's point may be true but I don't think it would get in the way of the Church's priorities.
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  #71  
Old 03-14-2013, 04:23 AM
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Yes I can definitely see Maxima and WA visiting the new pope. Pity that she doesn't have "privilège du blanc" though. :-)
I hope she will certainly not use the privilege du blanc. It wouldn't sit well with the orthodox protestants here. Neither would it go well with many others: the catholic church has seen scandal after scandal recently. Only 3 days ago a report was published of abuse of girls within the church. The church still fails to adequately adress these cases. Added to that, the teachings of the church on abortion, the position of women, safe sex, euthenasia, gay marriage etc. aren't too popular either.

I believe that a few years ago there circulated a rumour that princess Máxima donated 128.000 Euros to a tv station of the cardinal Bergoglio. The story was published by Noticias and written by Maria Fernanda Villosio. The court called the rumours 'nonsense'.

I assume that the new royal couple will visit the pope shortly while they are on a state visit to Italy, whenever that happens. And a Dutch royal will probably attend the installation of the pope. If only to prevent the media from writing that the RF 'snubbed' the Vatican, as they did when 'only' the prime minister attended the funeral of pope John Paul II.

But I am sure the Grand Ducal family of Luxembourg will make up for the loss of others, they seem to go to the Vatican at every opportunity they get.

It will be interesting to see how the pope will adress the issue of (sexual) abuse within the church, which has been extremely damaging to his predecessor and to the church itself. This mess is an open wound for the church and needs to be solved as quickly as possible. On the other issues I do not expect much change, though the new pope is said to have a somewhat milder approach to the use of condoms. I like it that the pope seems to be modest, he refused to live in the palace of the Bisshops of Buenos Aires and lives in a simple appartment, he travels by bus and asked Argentinians NOT to travel to Rome but use the money for the relief of the poor instead.
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  #72  
Old 03-14-2013, 06:08 AM
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Marengo,same reason he didn't travel to Rome with a suite of staff but alone,he said the money used for all the expenses could better be used for the poor.

Really,this man has a charisma and ability to make a worthwhile Pontificate,he isn't afraid to tackle a problem,regardless.

His Holiness Pope Francis started the first day of his Pontificate with prayers at the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore,the church where the founder of the Jesuits,Saint Ignatius of Loyola,celebrated his first Holy Mass.

The main Church of the Jesuits btw,is Il Gésu in Rome.
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  #73  
Old 03-14-2013, 06:51 AM
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He looks like a nice man (with the wrong views, but whatever, I guess that's mandatory if you wanna be the Pope). It's nice to see a Pope who's not European for once, and it's also really lovely to see how happy the South Americans are that an Argentinian cardinal was chosen, I bet Máxima is happy too.
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  #74  
Old 03-14-2013, 07:58 AM
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I read he did not sleep in the Papal appartment last night but in his room in the guest house where all the cardinals are lodged during the conclave. To travel there from the Cathedral's sixtinian chapel, he was offered the use of a limousine but he refused, opting to travel by bus together with the other cardinals.

I guess the curia will have much fun with him as he is used to advice his staff to travel and spend at the lowest level possible in order to have more money to help the poor with. He himself is a jesuit, so is more used to possess nothing of value than other priests who are not member of an monk order.

I read he will visit Benedikt tomorrow and that during the last conclave he took back his offer to become pope when it became clear that it would be a duell between him and Benedikt whom he has respected too much, so he supported him instead. Now he will surely need Benedikt's support because the former pope surely knowns so much more about the workings of the curia. Francis is a member of an order where priests are used to become the new boss of their former superiors when these retire - thus I don't think he will have problems with Benedikt who is himself a person who is not vain but interested in reaching higher aims. They might even become a religious dream team...

Found this pic: some days ago at the Buenos Aires metro:
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  #75  
Old 03-14-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
He looks like a nice man (with the wrong views, but whatever, I guess that's mandatory if you wanna be the Pope). It's nice to see a Pope who's not European for once, and it's also really lovely to see how happy the South Americans are that an Argentinian cardinal was chosen, I bet Máxima is happy too.
Wrong views? Based on Lumutqueen's post, his views are in line with the Church's teaching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Background information on Pope Francis I

Born: 17 December 1936
Where: Born in Buenos Aires to a Italian Railway worker and is one of five children.

He entered the Society of Jesus in 1958, he was ordained to the priesthood on December 13, 1969, by Archbishop Ramón José Castellano. Bergoglio succeeded Cardinal Quarracino on February 28, 1998. He was concurrently named ordinary for Eastern Catholics in Argentina, who lacked their own prelate. Pope John Paul II summoned the newly named archbishop to the consistory of February 21, 2001 in Vatican City and elevated Bergoglio with the papal honors of a cardinal. He was named to the Cardinal-Priest of Saint Robert Bellarmino.

In 2005 he was runner up to Benedict with 40 votes in the third ballot, 26 in the fourth.

People on the BBC have highlighted the fact he lives among his people, takes the bus/walks to work (I'm not too sure which), cooks his own meals.

He chose his name after St Francis of Assisi.

His views;
Liberation theology
Bergoglio is an accomplished theologian who distanced himself from liberation theology early in his career. He is thought to be close to Comunione e Liberazione, a conservative lay movement.
Abortion and euthanasia
Cardinal Bergoglio has invited his clergy and laity to oppose both abortion and euthanasia.[7]
Homosexuality
He has affirmed church teaching on homosexuality, though he teaches the importance of respecting individuals who are homosexual. He strongly opposed legislation introduced in 2010 by the Argentine Government to allow same-sex marriage, calling it a "real and dire anthropological throwback". In a letter to the monasteries of Buenos Aires, he wrote: "Let's not be naive, we're not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God." He has also insisted that adoption by homosexuals is a form of discrimination against children. This position received a rebuke from Argentine president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, who said the church's tone was reminiscent of "medieval times and the Inquisition".
Church and AIDS
His doctrinal orthodoxy emphasizes Christ's mandate to love: he is well remembered for his 2001 visit to a hospice, in which he washed and kissed the feet of twelve AIDS patients.
Social justice
He consistently preaches a message of compassion towards the poor, but somewho? observers would like him to place a greater emphasis on issues of social justice. Rather than articulating positions on matters of political economy, Bergoglio prefers to emphasize spirituality and holiness, believing that this will naturally lead to greater concern for the suffering of the poor. He has, however, voiced support for social programs, and publicly challenged free-market policies.
Relations with the Argentine government
On April 15, 2005, a human rights lawyer filed a criminal complaint against Bergoglio, accusing him of conspiring with the junta in 1976 to kidnap two Jesuit priests, whom he, as superior of the Society of Jesus of Argentina in 1976, had asked to leave their pastoral work following conflict within the Society over how to respond to the new
I just want to understand what you mean or others if they have the same view.

I hate that I missed seeing him. I'm traveling so I missed it. But he sounds great! Lot of people seem very happy.
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  #76  
Old 03-14-2013, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
He looks like a nice man (with the wrong views, but whatever, I guess that's mandatory if you wanna be the Pope). It's nice to see a Pope who's not European for once, and it's also really lovely to see how happy the South Americans are that an Argentinian cardinal was chosen, I bet Máxima is happy too.
Opinions and views are not wrong. The least you can do is respect him even if you don't agree with him. I bet he would do the same for you.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:18 AM
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Found this pic: some days ago at the Buenos Aires metro:
Funny pic

I think he´s VERY nice.
Another anecdote: he´s returned to the hotel where he spent his first days at Rome and he´s paid for the nights he spent there, like everybody.

And Cardinal Dolan, from the States, has told that at the dinner after the conclave he said to the cardinals "May God will forgive you" for what they´ve done to him
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:40 AM
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Francis starts his papacy with prayer at Santa Maria


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Old 03-14-2013, 11:41 AM
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Francis I: From excitement to tears. Argentinians overwhelmed with emotion!

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Old 03-14-2013, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Anna Catherine
Wrong views? Based on Lumutqueen's post, his views are in line with the Church's teaching.
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Opinions and views are not wrong. The least you can do is respect him even if you don't agree with him. I bet he would do the same for you.
I can not speak for Zelia, but it is likely that she meant that the pope has 'wrong' views according to her own set of beliefs. I can't see how that is disrespectful. She is certainly not alone in that, as this survey about US catholics shows:

Can public opinion sway the moves of the new pope? | National Catholic Reporter

Quote:
A total of 71 percent of American Catholics favor permitting the use of artificial birth control methods. Sixty-nine percent favor married priests, and 69 percent also favor women priests.

Sixty-two percent of Catholics favor legalizing same-sex marriage. Perhaps most startling is that 74 percent of Catholics would allow legal abortions with some conditions. Probably the most important finding for our discussion is that 78 percent of American Catholics say they would follow their own consciences rather than the pope's teaching on moral issues.
As you can read majority of American catholics do not agree with some fundamental points of the catholic church. I assume that the numbers in Europe must be even higher. The view of the new pope on these matters from what we know are however in line with the church teachings indeed. It will be a challenge for pope Francis to get this set of ultra conservative beliefs accepted again in large parts of the world.

His reluctance to cooperate to find justice for victims of Argentina's dirty war does not make me too hopeful that the church' major problem at the moment - the systematic sexual abuse & cover-ups- will be handled in a different way than under his pedecessor. Their handling of the situation has does far been disastrous for the image of the church IMHO.

Quote:
Other activists are angry over the positions Bergoglio, 76, has taken in recent years, as Argentina pursues investigations aimed at exposing those responsible for killing as many as 30,000 people, and finding traces of their victims. Some say he’s been more concerned about preserving the church’s image than providing evidence for Argentina’s many human rights trials.
“There’s hypocrisy here when it comes to the church’s conduct, and with Bergoglio in particular,” said Estela de la Cuadra, whose mother co-founded the Grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo activist group during the dictatorship to search for missing family members. “There are trials of all kinds now, and Bergoglio systematically refuses to support them.”
Bergoglio twice invoked his right under Argentine law to refuse to appear in open court in trials involving torture and murder inside the feared Navy Mechanics School and the theft of babies from detainees. When he eventually did testify in 2010, his answers were evasive, human rights attorney Myriam Bregman told the AP.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/po..._war_past.html


But let's give him the benifit of the doubt and wish him the best with the challenges ahead:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...s-new-job?lite
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