Vatican City State: Pope Benedict XVI, January 2006 - February 2013

[Anna Catherine]

If you read the article American Catholics also expressed their views on Benedict XVI

Ah I see. Are there any polls from other nations or articles of people expressing their views about Benedict? Americans are only one small part of the world. Have other people around the world been expressing their complaints with him? And I am not referring to politicians or journalists, but your average person.

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I just recently started posting on this thread.

 

[Pranter]

Did you actually read the 2 page article?...

Yes I read it. Many people? You are stretching things a bit.

I'd like to know where you read that....the fact that seminaries with waiting lists are more traditional/orthodox and more orthodox Masses are better attended don't mesh with the article which does NOT give background on those being interviewed.

Again, do a poll made up of faithful Catholics and I'll give it some credence. It's hardly a shock that dissenters (even those who attend Mass) are going to respond as they did.

Just like the poll from a year or so ago...these supposed Catholics were mostly cultural and rarely if ever attended Mass.

LaRae

 

[scooter]

Are you seriously under the impression that there are seminaries with waiting lists? There is a huge shortage of men willing to enter the priesthood. The Church, at present, admits neither women, rot married men, which drastically cuts down on the number of people prepared to enter the priesthood.


With any luck, the new Pope will be a little more in touch with what is going on outside the rarified all men in dresses atmosphere of the vatican.

 

[Pranter]

Yep it's a fact. There are seminaries with waiting lists.
You are incorrect about married men. There are married Catholic priests.

Women cannot be ordained. That issue was settled by JPII in this document, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, John Paul II, 22 May 1994 - Apostolic Letter

Fortunately all the voting cardinals were appointed by either JPII or BXVI so for the heterdox Catholics it's doubtful they will be pleased.

Rise in US seminary numbers brings 'big smile' to Pope's face :: Catholic News Agency (CNA) May 6, 2012

“I told him that in the Archdiocese of Denver both of our seminaries, St John Vianney Theological Seminary and Redeptoris Mater Neo-catechumenal seminary, are full,” the bishop added.
“In fact we have more applicants than we have space so for the first time in many years we have to create a waiting list which is a good problem to have.

 

[Anna Catherine]

Is there someone here that is not from the US and does not have so many negatives things to say about the Pope that can find some polls or interviews or something? Please and thank you. What other people reactions to his resignation and his time as Pope?

 

[NGalitzine]

...Again, do a poll made up of faithful Catholics...

I must have missed the announcement that you were now empowered to determine who is or is not a "faithful" Catholic. I get that you would describe yourself that way, but surely others also have the right to also describe themselves that way as well without needing anyone else to validate their opinions.

 

[Anna Catherine]

I agree with Pranter. Practicing Catholics would have a much better perspective and opinion about the church and their teachings. I know a lot of people who say they are Christians and yet they don't go to church and couldn't really tell a thing about doctrine or morality except what they think is right or wrong. Like I said before morality isn't something that changes based on cultural changes or societal whims.

I have been asking for some other polls from other countries. I would like to know the conversations going on with other Catholics and I would like to hear opinions of other people on this forum not just the ones who have all negative things to say about the church.

Also I think some other posters were posting about his current activities. I don't totally know about how everything does in a situation where the Pope resigns. What is his role? And what is he up to?

 

[HRHHermione]

...Again, do a poll made up of faithful Catholics...these supposed Catholics were mostly cultural...

I find it a bit insulting that you seem to only consider someone Catholic if they're Catholic in exactly the same manner you are. As I've said, I no longer consider myself Catholic but my mother and sisters certainly are (My mother and one sister attend every week and my other sister actually plays music at three Masses per week) and they all support same sex marriage. Their interpretation of Catholicism is that it should be about loving acceptance, not judgment and condemnation of others.

Honestly, I find that take on Christianity- the one that focuses on loving others and being kind and generous- much, much more compelling then the type of orthodoxy you keep pushing as the only way forward.

 

[Anna Catherine]

Can someone answer my question and stop attacking Pranter? This has nothing to do with Benedict. We can argue personal opinions about doctrine all day long some other time on some other thread.

 

[HRHHermione]

Can someone answer my question and stop attacking Pranter? This has nothing to do with Benedict. We can argue personal opinions about doctrine all day long some other time on some other thread.

Disagreeing with an opinion someone has voiced is not attacking them. That's what happens in any free exchange of ideas.

And as far as Catholic attitudes go, they certainly vary from country to country with Catholics concentrated in Latin America and Africa trending towards a more orthodox perspective and Catholics in America and the U.K. trending towards an interpretation that is more focused on social justice than orthodoxy.

A full answer to your question would require quite a bit of research and if it's something you're interested in, you'll probably have a few hours of articles to comb through.

 

[Grandma828]

As a full time practicing Catholic, I keep wondering about the comments about Africa and Latin America. Unless I am horribly wrong, most of the growth in those countries are among the uneducated, poor. My feeling is that once these people get college educations and financial independence, their thinking will be more like people in America and Europe. The church needs to realize that women who are highly educated, running companies, will not like feeling like second class in the Church. We were taught as children that we are all created in the image and likeness of God. How can we be less than men?

 

[HRHHermione]

My thoughts are similar. The gender inequality in the church is the primary reason I no longer count myself as a member. I would be so, so thrilled to see a pope who was ready to tackle that issue, but I very much doubt that will be the case.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

As a Catholic and seeing the amount and ages of priests, I find it very difficult to believe that American seminaries are filled with future priests, unless one or both of the following factors are at play:

1) the seminaries and waiting lists are filled with applicants from the Southern Hemisphere; and/or

2) it's because 90% of the seminaries have closed down.

 

[NGalitzine]

Actually Pranter is right about the rise in the number of applicants for seminaries, although the article does not specify their country of origin.

CNS STORY: Catholic seminary enrollment up, but numbers seen as only part of story

 

[Pranter]

I must have missed the announcement that you were now empowered to determine who is or is not a "faithful" Catholic. I get that you would describe yourself that way, but surely others also have the right to also describe themselves that way as well without needing anyone else to validate their opinions.

The Church determines who the faithful are. I'm not using my opinion, it's Hers.

I find it a bit insulting that you seem to only consider someone Catholic if they're Catholic in exactly the same manner you are.

That's your assumption...I've not said they must be as I am. The Church determines who is or is not.
Attending Mass weekly is not all their is to being a faithful Catholic. One cannot/should not hold positions contrary to 'set' teaching and receive the Sacraments.

 

[Kataryn]

That's your assumption...I've not said they must be as I am. The Church determines who is or is not.

Interesting - that's exactly the argumentation of Benedikt. When still a Cardinal, he said in an interview that it doesn't matter what the majority or even all but only 600 people want to change the dogmas of the Church - these are holy and non-negociable and it's better to leave the Church than to try to make it inot a Church to a personal taste.

I appreciate him for thinking this way but always thought he would see it differently if only so few followers were around - what with the power and the wealth of the Church? But now, after his abdication for the good of the Church I believe he not only meant it but has lived his belief.

 

[Dman]

I think one of the biggest changes the church will have to go through is allowing the priest, cardinals and bishops to get married to women.

 

[Jacknch]

I think one of the biggest changes the church will have to go through is allowing the priest, cardinals and bishops to get married to women.

Oh my goodness - what a suggestion!! It's a complicated enough procedure changing popes, let alone changing the rules to allow priests, cardinals and bishops to get married. BTW it's interesting you qualify the suggestion with the words "to women"! If the CoE is struggling with the idea of allowing its bishops to marry (not to mention same sex marriage) then I can't imagine how the Vatican could even contemplate the proposal.

With regard to change in the Catholic Church, they can start by getting rid of those awful plastic, electronic candles you see in churches and bring back the proper wax ones! My partner and I went into a church in Spain a few weeks back to light a couple of candles. At the alter we were confronted with a machine containing rows of plastic candles with little lightbulbs on the top. You had to put a Euro into the slot and then one of the candles would light up. Having spent ages trying to work out how the stupid thing worked, all sense of tranquility and spirituality evaporated and we went off for a drink at the bar!

 

[Kataryn]

Real candles smoke and this smoke destroys the paintings in a church. It was tested a lot and while the ound a orm of frankincense that doesn't do it toi the interior o a church, they found no alternative to these artificial candles. It is sad, but it is for the protection of art.

 

[Dman]

They will have to address the marriage issue, if not, then there's even more trouble ahead.

 

[Kataryn]

They will have to address the marriage issue, if not, then there's even more trouble ahead.

The problem is that for a true Catholic sex is only available within marriage, so this is all about priest being unmarried. When in fact it is the question how men deal with the fact that sex is not allowed for them....

 

[lucien]

today,on International Womens Day,ALL the women at the various departments of The Vatican received a bouquet of flowers in what has become a tradition on this day.Just a nice message in between awaiting the exact time and day of the beginning of the Conclave.

 

[Jacknch]

It's nice that International Women's Day has been recognised in such a way. I do hope they tell us soon when the conclave will begin as I will be glued to the TV set!

 

[Pranter]

I think one of the biggest changes the church will have to go through is allowing the priest, cardinals and bishops to get married to women.

Clery have NEVER been allowed to marry...it's not going to change. What has been allowed and still happens is that married men may become clergy.

It's a misconception that there are not married priests within the Catholic Church. There most definately are.

Conclave begins Tuesday!

 

[Warren]

Some personal theological arguments, barbed comments and irrelevant posts have been edited or removed.

There is a very good reason why religious discussion is not encouraged in the Forums and once again this thread has shown that such discussion can very quickly turn defensive and personal.

Nonetheless, we'll persevere, with the standard proviso that posts [-]may[/-] WILL be edited or deleted at the discretion of the Moderators.

The Conclave to elect a Pope will meet on Tuesday, March 12. Refer to The Conclave thread.

Warren
TRF Admin

 

[Jacknch]

...married men may become clergy.

Well, I have to say I did not know that! But how on earth can a married man become a priest if someone who is already a priest is not allowed to marry?

 

[Pranter]

Well, I have to say I did not know that! But how on earth can a married man become a priest if someone who is already a priest is not allowed to marry?

Married man becomes ordained. A man who is already ordained may not marry.


LaRae

 

[scooter]

Clery have NEVER been allowed to marry...it's not going to change. What has been allowed and still happens is that married men may become clergy.

It's a misconception that there are not married priests within the Catholic Church. There most definately are.


LaRae

Incorrect. Early priest certainly married. It was not until the 12 th century that the doctrine of celebacy was introduced because priests were leving church assets to their offspring. In point of fact, to this day, the church quietly allows priests in Africa to marry.

 

[Pranter]

Incorrect. Early priest certainly married. It was not until the 12 th century that the doctrine of celebacy was introduced because priests were leving church assets to their offspring. In point of fact, to this day, the church quietly allows priests in Africa to marry.

You are wrong.


LaRae

 

[Dman]

Incorrect. Early priest certainly married. It was not until the 12 th century that the doctrine of celebacy was introduced because priests were leving church assets to their offspring. In point of fact, to this day, the church quietly allows priests in Africa to marry.

That's how I understand it too. I know there are some priest that are allowed to marry.

As a man, I really think it's unhealthy to not allow a great deal of these people of the cloth to not get married and have a companion. This kind of situation I think has lead to horrible things happening to young boys in the church and causing a great deal of heartache and pain for them and their families.