Vatican City State: Pope Benedict XVI, January 2006 - February 2013

[Sancia]

His condemnation of the American group of nuns whose focus is specifically on social justice irked me and for me, was a defining moment for a pope I never cared for in any way. We can agree to disagree here though, since this board probably doesn't need to devolve into an argument. Personally, I'm just thrilled he's stepping aside and I wish him a quiet retirement. I hope whoever is next is someone with vision and someone who works towards a more inclusive church.

Also, I always thought he resembled Emperor Palpatine.

I don't forget the American nuns, but I don't want to begin a political argument, just reminding some facts. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, when one has the correct informations.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Perhaps it is time for an Italian cardinal. Do we have any information on possible candidates? Bookmakers hint that Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria may become the next Pontiff.

The majority of previous Pontiffs have been Italian,personally I think its time that a non European is elected to the Holy See,but one never knows where the white smoke might blow!

 

[lucien]

Cardinal Schönborn has already given an interview today on ORF in which he spoke about his surprise about the pope's retirement. He was also asked if he would accept if the vote were in his favour. He refused to answer that question. However I do not think Cardinal Schönborn will be elected. He is a moderate traditionalist and very respected in Austria. Nevertheless I think it will be an Italian Cardinal.

If not Schönborn,then an Italian,south American...maybe..But I hope not as that part of the world is still largely kept ignorant by their local fathers...so NO.But never an African,they tend to be way way more conservative then any of the present or predecessors.And being Holyer Than Thou is not what this world is waiting for,but one in touch with time and age.The late Primate of Milano would have been my favorite candidate.But alas...I said the late...so,nah..Also,Nostradamus said a black pope would see the end of the world....If not Maya's...then this...

 

[HRHHermione]

I only briefly looked at the Wikipedia for Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria and I didn't see anything alarming in his background- am I missing something? Is he a hard line conservative fundamentalist like some of the Catholics from that part of the world or is he a man with more vision than that?

 

[An Ard Ri]

If not Schönborn,then an Italian,south American...maybe..But I hope not as that part of the world is still largely kept ignorant by their local fathers...so NO.But never an African,they tend to be way way more conservative then any of the present or predecessors.And being Holyer Than Thou is not what this world is waiting for,but one in touch with time and age.The late Primate of Milano would have been my favorite candidate.But alas...I said the late...so,nah..Also,Nostradamus said a black pope would see the end of the world....If not Maya's...then this...

Any Dutch in the running Lucien?


I think there has only ever been 1 Dutch Pope (Adrian VI)

 

[lucien]

Any Dutch in the running Lucien?


I think there has only ever been 1 Dutch Pope (Adrian VI)

One,but he's just "a kid" compared to most of the others...so nah.
True,Adrian was the first non-Italian Pontiff and they gave him,..uhhh..., "Hell" in The Vatican....All these Italians only prima donna's of the day,and then there was this clever brute from up north...Poor guy,his Papacy wasn't that long....

 

[carlota]

i find it admirable that he's stepping down if he feels he can't perform the post to the standards he had hoped for and that are required of him. it clearly indicates maturity, honesty, responsibility and sense of duty and i admire him for that. i doubt many people in his position would do the same.

Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson, Angelo Scola, Christoph von Schonborn seem the only ones who have some more modern views, i hope they (or someone as open minded) get selected.

 

[tundra]

I wonder what the Cardinals are thinking about for the next pope. What qualities, ideologies, etc that they think are necessary going forward for the Catholic church. I"m sure age will be a factor so that there isn't a pope with too long or too short a time in the job.

Will be a very interesting few months for sure.

 

[An Ard Ri]

There are 118 Cardinals eligible to vote for the next Pope!

Who created the cardinals eligible to vote for the next Pope? - YouTube



Papal Conclave

Papal conclave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[HRHHermione]

Honestly, the whole thing is very strange. It was understood when he was chosen that he probably wouldn't be pope for long- he was 78 after all. But it was fully expected that his tenure as pope would come to an end because of his death, not because of resignation.

I wonder if the full logic behind the decision will ever be made public.

 

[Lenora]

Honestly, the whole thing is very strange. It was understood when he was chosen that he probably wouldn't be pope for long- he was 78 after all. But it was fully expected that his tenure as pope would come to an end because of his death, not because of resignation.

I wonder if the full logic behind the decision will ever be made public.

I agree, maybe he was against some new reforms in Catholic Church.

 

[Iluvbertie]

If they elect an older pope it increases the chances that there will be another vacancy and so another chance for the next older cardinal to be elected.

I have just seen a list of possible replacements - the one from the US was the youngest at 68 - but they also said he was clearly an outsider.

The fact that they elect from within themselves and becoming a cardinal isn't something that happens to a young man is another reason why they elect old people - the only eligible candidates are old.

Of the four I saw one was 68 while the other three were in their 70s - all white, two Europeans despite the fact that the church is declining in Europe and growing in Africa and South America - would be nice to see an African or Latino (from South America) get the gig.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Honestly, the whole thing is very strange. It was understood when he was chosen that he probably wouldn't be pope for long- he was 78 after all. But it was fully expected that his tenure as pope would come to an end because of his death, not because of resignation.

I wonder if the full logic behind the decision will ever be made public.

I think its taken most people by surprise by all accounts,and its the first one of its kind in centuries.

One thing that did strike me watching the Holy Father on the news was how frail he has gotten.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Honestly, the whole thing is very strange. It was understood when he was chosen that he probably wouldn't be pope for long- he was 78 after all. But it was fully expected that his tenure as pope would come to an end because of his death, not because of resignation.

I wonder if the full logic behind the decision will ever be made public.

That what I thought, I honestly believed you couldn't resign from this job. I can understand that he's frail and apparently he struggles to walk but he was 78 when he became Pope he must've known his body would weaken.
It was very rushed apparently and Cardinals are apparently not happy with the way it was handled. Most didn't even know until the annoucement was made public.

 

[HRHHermione]

That what I thought, I honestly believed you couldn't resign from this job. I can understand that he's frail and apparently he struggles to walk but he was 78 when he became Pope he must've known his body would weaken.
It was very rushed apparently and Cardinals are apparently not happy with the way it was handled. Most didn't even know until the annoucement was made public.

The Catholic church is very good at protecting information so we may never know what prompted a decision this sudden, but I don't buy that it's due to the normal declines of old age.

 

[Kit]

The thing is the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger didn't want to become pope in the first place to a large amount due to his already poor health in 2005. But he accepted the result of the papal election as manifestation of God's wish. His brother Georg confirmed this a few days after the election in a very interesting interview on German TV. He was apparently quite concerned about his brother's health. The initial plan was for Cardinal Ratzinger to retire to a monastery and write more books. But fate interfered with this plan so to speak. Both brothers were apparently shocked about the result of the 2005 election. However I am sure it was indeed his own free decision to resign. If anyone knows the canonic law it is for sure Benedikt XVI.

 

[Saschana]

The thing is the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger didn't want to become pope in the first place to a large amount due to his already poor health in 2005. But he accepted the result of the papal election as manifestation of God's wish. His brother Georg confirmed this a few days after the election in a very interesting interview on German TV. He was apparently quite concerned about his brother's health. The initial plan was for Cardinal Ratzinger to retire to a monastery and write more books. But fate interfered with this plan so to speak. Both brothers were apparently shocked about the result of the 2005 election. However I am sure it was indeed his own free decision to resign. If anyone knows the canonic law it is for sure Benedikt XVI.

Exactly, he never wished to become Pope. Before his election he said that he would like to retire at the age of about 80 and live a quite life with his brother at home in Bavaria. Even after he elected he never ruled out to abdicate and even gave interviews about the matter.

I was surprised too but thinking about all the things I have read about him over the years it all fits together and is not very surprising after all.

The Catholic church is very good at protecting information so we may never know what prompted a decision this sudden, but I don't buy that it's due to the normal declines of old age.

I do not think that it was a sudden decision. As I said, he gave an interview to a journalist a few years ago in which he said that even the Pope had the right to resign.

 

[Lumutqueen]

The thing is the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger didn't want to become pope in the first place to a large amount due to his already poor health in 2005. .

Now that I didn't know. Question - is there a way for a Cardinal to refuse conclaves decision?

 

[lucien]

I think its taken most people by surprise by all accounts,and its the first one of its kind in centuries.

One thing that did strike me watching the Holy Father on the news was how frail he has gotten.

True,and it is that,his health,and nothing else...Just in case those inclined to a "conspiracy" take over.It's a tough position to be in,and he feels to old and healthwise too frail to fully do the job.He already said a long time ago that a Pontiff should step down if time was there....That was a warning by him but long forgotten.And he CAN step down if he so wishes and has,it's all in the protocols to do so.

As a Cardinal back in 1997 he already asked the then Pontiff John Paul II to be dismissed from his functions and retire,but JP II wouldn't hear of it.So,the then Cardinal just continued to do his work,and was elected Pope himself 8 years ago.

 

[Kit]

I do not know if he could have refused the papal election in 2005. But his brother confirmed today that he already knew about the decision to resign for a certain while.

 

[Osipi]

Now that I didn't know. Question - is there a way for a Cardinal to refuse conclaves decision?

I'm sure there is but most Cardinals would deem as the Pope did, that the result of the election is God given and feel it a duty to fulfill the role of Pope.

He's always looked quite frail and tired but even more so lately. He feels the need to step down and the position go to someone that is more able to fill the position.

All of this really makes me realize just how much strength and stamina that Queen Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh have. They will be 87 and 92 respectively this year and still going strong.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I have always had great respect and admiration for this brilliant, gentle, low key man. He followed the superstar, saintly John Paul II and those were going to be impossible shoes for anyone to fill but he did it well, imo.

Now he can spend his remaining time in peace and prayer. I think he deserves it.

He's a cat lover like myself and so I have a kind of soft spot for him. Godspeed, Your Holiness.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

If not Schönborn,then an Italian,south American...maybe..But I hope not as that part of the world is still largely kept ignorant by their local fathers...so NO.But never an African,they tend to be way way more conservative then any of the present or predecessors.And being Holyer Than Thou is not what this world is waiting for,but one in touch with time and age.The late Primate of Milano would have been my favorite candidate.But alas...I said the late...so,nah..Also,Nostradamus said a black pope would see the end of the world....If not Maya's...then this...

I personally think that the church will need a younger pope who is openminded to all the pressing questions that people have and dont find answers to in church any longer. Its about transparency, staying in touch with time and people's needs without giving up the basic principles.

Sadly I dont think this will happen. JP II was a conservative hardliner (although very much a people's person in contrast to Benedict). Benedict only continued the hardliner mindset and almost all cardinals who can vote have been appointed by either JP II or Benedict - and are all most likely to continue with the same strategy. Too bad that such a good opportunity for modernisation and adaption might pass without being made use of.

 

[Saschana]

There is the possibility for a pope-elect to not accept the election. Once the election is done, the cardinal deans asks the elected whether he accepts the canonical election as Supreme Pontiff; theoretically the person could say that he does not accept. Usually, a person who say beforehand that he does not want to be elected like Giovanni Colombo did in 1978.

I think Benedict XVI was taken very much by surprise - as basically everyone - eight years ago; he was elected within 26 hours after the start of the papal conclave.

 

[Saschana]

I personally think that the church will need a younger pope who is openminded to all the pressing questions that people have and dont find answers to in church any longer. Its about transparency, staying in touch with time and people's needs without giving up the basic principles.

Sadly I dont think this will happen. JP II was a conservative hardliner (although very much a people's person in contrast to Benedict). Benedict only continued the hardliner mindset and almost all cardinals who can vote have been appointed by either JP II or Benedict - and are all most likely to continue with the same strategy. Too bad that such a good opportunity for modernisation and adaption might pass without being made use of.

I very much doubt this will happen but every Catholic person can be voted Pope. The conclave can chose whoever they want to; even laymen can be elected.

 

[HRHHermione]

True,and it is that,his health,and nothing else...Just in case those inclined to a "conspriracy" take over.

Honestly, I don't think one needs to reach into conspiracy theory territory. What's already on record is enough- this pope is far too closely associated with the sex abuse scandal and many people hold him accountable for covering up abuses by priests and failing to help victims. That's going to be his legacy and that is inevitable.

I think his age and health was probably a factor, but I don't think he'd be stepping aside if he enjoyed the same kind of public acclaim that Pope John Paul II had. I think and hope that he recognizes that in order for the church to heal, new leadership is necessary. Hopefully the next pope will be someone slightly more modern and someone who had no part in the abuse cases.

This was a good article about his legacy as pope: Benedict XVI’s legacy - Salon.com

 

[scooter]

I very much doubt this will happen but every Catholic person can be voted Pope. The conclave can chose whoever they want to; even laymen can be elected.

Just not any women...

 

[An Ard Ri]

Hopefully we'll have a new Pope by Easter!

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The pope's first and most important responsibilty is to proclaim and safeguard the Gospel as handed down by Christ and the Apostles over the last two thousand years.

Of course he is leading the Church into the 3rd millenium and must always be aware of the times we are in. But I don't want, need or expect him to turn to some feel good televangelist, telling people what they want to hear and bending the teachings of Christ to make us more comfortable and to satisfy worldly needs regardless of whether they conflict with those teachings or not.

Scripture warns us against people like that and calls them "false prophets".

My prayer is that the Conclave chooses the next pontiff with the characteristics of holiness, zeal, and wisdom uppermost in their minds. Not according to how well they feel he will do with "modernization" of the world's most ancient institution-which has been here years before any of us and will outlive all of us as well.

 

[Meraude]

Is he still a Prince of the Church or merely a retired priest?

As he was a cardinal before he became a pope I would guess that his rank will be cardinal emeritus after retirement, like other cardinals when they retire, unless of course he will be given the title pope emeritus.