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  #581  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:23 PM
Courtier
 
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As a full time practicing Catholic, I keep wondering about the comments about Africa and Latin America. Unless I am horribly wrong, most of the growth in those countries are among the uneducated, poor. My feeling is that once these people get college educations and financial independence, their thinking will be more like people in America and Europe. The church needs to realize that women who are highly educated, running companies, will not like feeling like second class in the Church. We were taught as children that we are all created in the image and likeness of God. How can we be less than men?
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  #582  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:30 PM
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My thoughts are similar. The gender inequality in the church is the primary reason I no longer count myself as a member. I would be so, so thrilled to see a pope who was ready to tackle that issue, but I very much doubt that will be the case.
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  #583  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:46 PM
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As a Catholic and seeing the amount and ages of priests, I find it very difficult to believe that American seminaries are filled with future priests, unless one or both of the following factors are at play:

1) the seminaries and waiting lists are filled with applicants from the Southern Hemisphere; and/or

2) it's because 90% of the seminaries have closed down.
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  #584  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:02 AM
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Actually Pranter is right about the rise in the number of applicants for seminaries, although the article does not specify their country of origin.

CNS STORY: Catholic seminary enrollment up, but numbers seen as only part of story
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  #585  
Old 03-08-2013, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I must have missed the announcement that you were now empowered to determine who is or is not a "faithful" Catholic. I get that you would describe yourself that way, but surely others also have the right to also describe themselves that way as well without needing anyone else to validate their opinions.
The Church determines who the faithful are. I'm not using my opinion, it's Hers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
I find it a bit insulting that you seem to only consider someone Catholic if they're Catholic in exactly the same manner you are.
That's your assumption...I've not said they must be as I am. The Church determines who is or is not.
Attending Mass weekly is not all their is to being a faithful Catholic. One cannot/should not hold positions contrary to 'set' teaching and receive the Sacraments.
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  #586  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post

That's your assumption...I've not said they must be as I am. The Church determines who is or is not.
Interesting - that's exactly the argumentation of Benedikt. When still a Cardinal, he said in an interview that it doesn't matter what the majority or even all but only 600 people want to change the dogmas of the Church - these are holy and non-negociable and it's better to leave the Church than to try to make it inot a Church to a personal taste.

I appreciate him for thinking this way but always thought he would see it differently if only so few followers were around - what with the power and the wealth of the Church? But now, after his abdication for the good of the Church I believe he not only meant it but has lived his belief.
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  #587  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:27 AM
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I think one of the biggest changes the church will have to go through is allowing the priest, cardinals and bishops to get married to women.
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  #588  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think one of the biggest changes the church will have to go through is allowing the priest, cardinals and bishops to get married to women.
Oh my goodness - what a suggestion!! It's a complicated enough procedure changing popes, let alone changing the rules to allow priests, cardinals and bishops to get married. BTW it's interesting you qualify the suggestion with the words "to women"! If the CoE is struggling with the idea of allowing its bishops to marry (not to mention same sex marriage) then I can't imagine how the Vatican could even contemplate the proposal.

With regard to change in the Catholic Church, they can start by getting rid of those awful plastic, electronic candles you see in churches and bring back the proper wax ones! My partner and I went into a church in Spain a few weeks back to light a couple of candles. At the alter we were confronted with a machine containing rows of plastic candles with little lightbulbs on the top. You had to put a Euro into the slot and then one of the candles would light up. Having spent ages trying to work out how the stupid thing worked, all sense of tranquility and spirituality evaporated and we went off for a drink at the bar!
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  #589  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:05 PM
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Real candles smoke and this smoke destroys the paintings in a church. It was tested a lot and while the ound a orm of frankincense that doesn't do it toi the interior o a church, they found no alternative to these artificial candles. It is sad, but it is for the protection of art.
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  #590  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:09 PM
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They will have to address the marriage issue, if not, then there's even more trouble ahead.
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  #591  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
They will have to address the marriage issue, if not, then there's even more trouble ahead.
The problem is that for a true Catholic sex is only available within marriage, so this is all about priest being unmarried. When in fact it is the question how men deal with the fact that sex is not allowed for them....
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  #592  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:29 PM
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today,on International Womens Day,ALL the women at the various departments of The Vatican received a bouquet of flowers in what has become a tradition on this day.Just a nice message in between awaiting the exact time and day of the beginning of the Conclave.
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  #593  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:27 PM
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It's nice that International Women's Day has been recognised in such a way. I do hope they tell us soon when the conclave will begin as I will be glued to the TV set!
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  #594  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think one of the biggest changes the church will have to go through is allowing the priest, cardinals and bishops to get married to women.
Clery have NEVER been allowed to marry...it's not going to change. What has been allowed and still happens is that married men may become clergy.

It's a misconception that there are not married priests within the Catholic Church. There most definately are.

Conclave begins Tuesday!
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  #595  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:49 PM
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Some personal theological arguments, barbed comments and irrelevant posts have been edited or removed.

There is a very good reason why religious discussion is not encouraged in the Forums and once again this thread has shown that such discussion can very quickly turn defensive and personal.

Nonetheless, we'll persevere, with the standard proviso that posts may WILL be edited or deleted at the discretion of the Moderators.

The Conclave to elect a Pope will meet on Tuesday, March 12. Refer to The Conclave thread.

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  #596  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
...married men may become clergy.
Well, I have to say I did not know that! But how on earth can a married man become a priest if someone who is already a priest is not allowed to marry?
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  #597  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Well, I have to say I did not know that! But how on earth can a married man become a priest if someone who is already a priest is not allowed to marry?

Married man becomes ordained. A man who is already ordained may not marry.


LaRae
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  #598  
Old 03-08-2013, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Clery have NEVER been allowed to marry...it's not going to change. What has been allowed and still happens is that married men may become clergy.

It's a misconception that there are not married priests within the Catholic Church. There most definately are.


LaRae
Incorrect. Early priest certainly married. It was not until the 12 th century that the doctrine of celebacy was introduced because priests were leving church assets to their offspring. In point of fact, to this day, the church quietly allows priests in Africa to marry.
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  #599  
Old 03-08-2013, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Incorrect. Early priest certainly married. It was not until the 12 th century that the doctrine of celebacy was introduced because priests were leving church assets to their offspring. In point of fact, to this day, the church quietly allows priests in Africa to marry.

You are wrong.


LaRae
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  #600  
Old 03-08-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Incorrect. Early priest certainly married. It was not until the 12 th century that the doctrine of celebacy was introduced because priests were leving church assets to their offspring. In point of fact, to this day, the church quietly allows priests in Africa to marry.
That's how I understand it too. I know there are some priest that are allowed to marry.

As a man, I really think it's unhealthy to not allow a great deal of these people of the cloth to not get married and have a companion. This kind of situation I think has lead to horrible things happening to young boys in the church and causing a great deal of heartache and pain for them and their families.
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