Vatican City State: Pope Benedict XVI, January 2006 - February 2013

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by scooter

as well as the announcement that he will never gain set foot outside the Vatican. As he is no longer pope, he no longer njoys diplomatic immunity and could be arrested if he leave the Vatican.

We don't know if he still enjoys diplomatic immunity or not. He still is a citizen of the Vatican City State as well as being German and we know nothing about how the VCS handles diplomatic immunity. But - I have yet to imagine any judge who would order a warrant against a former pope! Especially as I personally believe Joseph Ratzinger has never ever broken a law that he was aware of and that he has accepted as being valid. I don't think he was directly involved in disciplining priests or in bringing priests to worldly justice who have committed crimes. That was not his job and he is not responsible when others failed to react properly. What he did was viewing the situation he was made aware of in light of the Church doctrines and advise on how to handle things. He was not the executioner!

[HRHHermione]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

We don't know if he still enjoys diplomatic immunity or not. He still is a citizen of the Vatican City State as well as being German and we know nothing about how the VCS handles diplomatic immunity. But - I have yet to imagine any judge who would order a warrant against a former pope! Especially as I personally believe Joseph Ratzinger has never ever broken a law that he was aware of and that he has accepted as being valid. I don't think he was directly involved in disciplining priests or in bringing priests to worldly justice who have committed crimes. That was not his job and he is not responsible when others failed to react properly. What he did was viewing the situation he was made aware of in light of the Church doctrines and advise on how to handle things. He was not the executioner!

As the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, Cardinal Ratzinger was DIRECTLY responsible for disciplining priests and bringing priests to justice for committing crimes. That was his job. He's the one that created the process for how those cases were handled, and he directly over saw it. He stepped up the process to get pedophile priests defrocked, but still insisted these matters be handled by the church and not turned over to secular authorities.

In doing this, it is my opinion that he acted completely improperly and failed to protect children.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

We don't know if he still enjoys diplomatic immunity or not. He still is a citizen of the Vatican City State as well as being German and we know nothing about how the VCS handles diplomatic immunity. !

Diplomatic immunity is not determined by your country of origin, it is determined by the country you are visiting or are accredited to.

While arrest is unlikely, I can imagine that if he were for instance to be visiting Ireland, the US or even The Netherlands he might be summoned to give testimony in a court of law about what he knew/when he knew it/ and what the policy was in dealing with priestly abuse. Remaining within the walls of the Vatican City State would prevent that from happening. Given his failing health I imagine a lot of foreign travel is not planned anyway especially since he has stated he will basically be withdrawing from public view anyway.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Kit

One can say and think about the Catholic Church and its Cardinals what one wants and yes we are all aware Ratzinger was nothing more than the Head of the Inquisition but one thing that will never happen is that a former pope will be arrested. This is not a thriller by Dan Brown.

Kit,exactly!He will never be arrested regardless.As the Pontiff he acknowledged the abuse happened which is more then any of his predecessors ever did and meanwhile the victims of the abuse have been payed,and the Church is still paying the new and proven cases that emerged.And ofcourse,trying to single out those who love to ride on a free ticket to extra bucks for abuse they never had...Pecunia non olet...Not all is true what is said in many a claim...Just to set the record straight.... But the cases that have been proven to be right have been contacted and given a sum,not that the abuse desolves by any sum,but is not done/handled in a frugal way as far as the pecunia goes.And that is internationally acknowledged as a case "under way" and handled so whatever person shpould try,there are always those desperate to get attention at any rate...sadly enough even in these cases...people are people...and there are many kinds off...
So,in short,an "arrest" would never ever happen regardless where the Pope Emeritus would go.No.Not ever.Except when Tom Hanks says so ofcourse..and the Disney people who believe him...nah...grin..

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by HRHHermione

As the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, Cardinal Ratzinger was DIRECTLY responsible for disciplining priests and bringing priests to justice for committing crimes. That was his job. He's the one that created the process for how those cases were handled, and he directly over saw it. He stepped up the process to get pedophile priests defrocked, but still insisted these matters be handled by the church and not turned over to secular authorities.

In doing this, it is my opinion that he acted completely improperly and failed to protect children.

What cases did he refuse to turn over to the authorities?

LaRae

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Kit

One can say and think about the Catholic Church and its Cardinals what one wants and yes we are all aware Ratzinger was nothing more than the Head of the Inquisition but one thing that will never happen is that a former pope will be arrested. This is not a thriller by Dan Brown.

Exactly the reason, IMO, why they have announced that he will never again leave the Vatican grounds. I would think though that he could be subpoenaed to give testimony in a civil case . I does not have diplomatic immunity any longe.

[Pranter]

The pope said why he won't leave the grounds again. It has nothing to do with anything other than what he said. To make it into something else is just wishful thinking on those who have an axe to grind.




LaRae

[An Ard Ri]

Vatican explains why Sistine Chapel is still open, days before Conclave

Vatican explains why Sistine Chapel is still open, days before Conclave - YouTube

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Pranter

What cases did he refuse to turn over to the authorities?

LaRae

We will find out in short order when the 30,000 pages of correspondence on the subject are released by the court.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by scooter

We will find out in short order when the 30,000 pages of correspondence on the subject are released by the court.

Ah so people are assuming then and making unfounded claims. The other poster made a statement as if it were fact. If it's factual I'd like to see specifics of what she is talking about.


LaRae

[scooter]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

Diplomatic immunity is not determined by your country of origin, it is determined by the country you are visiting or are accredited to.

While arrest is unlikely, I can imagine that if he were for instance to be visiting Ireland, the US or even The Netherlands he might be summoned to give testimony in a court of law about what he knew/when he knew it/ and what the policy was in dealing with priestly abuse. Remaining within the walls of the Vatican City State would prevent that from happening. Given his failing health I imagine a lot of foreign travel is not planned anyway especially since he has stated he will basically be withdrawing from public view anyway.

I thought it was actually quite telling that the Vatican pre emptively announced that he would never be leaving vatican city again. For any reason? Ever? Really?

As far as diplomatic immunity, Ratzinger had diplomatic immunity because he was a Head of State, not because of extradition treaties.He is no longer a Head of State. Therefore, no diplomatic immunity exists for him.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Ah so people are assuming then and making unfounded claims. The other poster made a statement as if it were fact. If it's factual I'd like to see specifics of what she is talking about.


LaRae

Be patient for a few months. You wont have long to wait.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by scooter

Be patient for a few months. You wont have long to wait.

I see so the new standard is to assume people guilty of something before they are proven so. I hope you never sit on a jury.


LaRae

[scooter]

LaRae, It's been reported on CNN, MSNBC, NY Times, Newsweek etc that these 30,000 pages of correspondence on the pedophilia case are about to be released.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by scooter

LaRae, It's been reported on CNN, MSNBC, NY Times, Newsweek etc that these 30,000 pages of correspondence on the pedophilia case are about to be released.

So? Do you know what is in the documents? Nope and neither does the other poster making the statement.

If there are specific cases, as she stated, then I want to see her source of info on them.


LaRae

[monarchist-us]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

We don't know if he still enjoys diplomatic immunity or not. He still is a citizen of the Vatican City State as well as being German and we know nothing about how the VCS handles diplomatic immunity. But - I have yet to imagine any judge who would order a warrant against a former pope! Especially as I personally believe Joseph Ratzinger has never ever broken a law that he was aware of and that he has accepted as being valid. I don't think he was directly involved in disciplining priests or in bringing priests to worldly justice who have committed crimes. That was not his job and he is not responsible when others failed to react properly. What he did was viewing the situation he was made aware of in light of the Church doctrines and advise on how to handle things. He was not the executioner!

As if anything will happen to him.

The Catholic Church, as an institution, has gotten off pretty much punishment-free even though the abuse problems and their subsequent coverups were certainly institutional in nature.

[GracieGiraffe]

Originally Posted by scooter

I thought it was actually quite telling that the Vatican pre emptively announced that he would never be leaving vatican city again. For any reason? Ever? Really?

As far as diplomatic immunity, Ratzinger had diplomatic immunity because he was a Head of State, not because of extradition treaties.He is no longer a Head of State. Therefore, no diplomatic immunity exists for him.

Exactly. What if he needed some serious surgery, for example.

These are not good times for the Vatican, methinks.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by scooter

LaRae, It's been reported on CNN, MSNBC, NY Times, Newsweek etc that these 30,000 pages of correspondence on the pedophilia case are about to be released.

So?Oh wow..It carries weight since CNN reported on it,and MSNBC...Oh wow...well,...Not on this side of the ocean it doesn't...they report what they like,and have all have a nice read..Yet,that will not,not now and not ever,change that the Pope Emeritus will never be arrested.,no way.

...

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by lucien

So?..Yet,that will not,not now and not ever,change that the Pope Emeritus will never be arrested.,no way.

...

Well not as long as he remains locked up in seclusion on The Vatican City State anyway

[Iluvbertie]

Obviously if there is a case to answer it won't be in the Vatican so if he stays there he will be fine but...if he leaves The Vatican then there is a chance that some secular government, not overwhelmed by the position that he has given up, could decide that he should be arrested to face the charges - but it all comes down to whether there is a case to answer.

As we don't know what will happen in the future we can't say that he will or won't be arrested if he leaves The Vatican if there is a case for him to answer - either criminal or civil - depending on the laws of the individual countries own laws.