The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Other Reigning Houses

Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #481  
Old 03-02-2013, 12:02 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: alpine village, Germany
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
as well as the announcement that he will never gain set foot outside the Vatican. As he is no longer pope, he no longer njoys diplomatic immunity and could be arrested if he leave the Vatican.
We don't know if he still enjoys diplomatic immunity or not. He still is a citizen of the Vatican City State as well as being German and we know nothing about how the VCS handles diplomatic immunity. But - I have yet to imagine any judge who would order a warrant against a former pope! Especially as I personally believe Joseph Ratzinger has never ever broken a law that he was aware of and that he has accepted as being valid. I don't think he was directly involved in disciplining priests or in bringing priests to worldly justice who have committed crimes. That was not his job and he is not responsible when others failed to react properly. What he did was viewing the situation he was made aware of in light of the Church doctrines and advise on how to handle things. He was not the executioner!
__________________

__________________
  #482  
Old 03-02-2013, 12:20 PM
HRHHermione's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 2,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
We don't know if he still enjoys diplomatic immunity or not. He still is a citizen of the Vatican City State as well as being German and we know nothing about how the VCS handles diplomatic immunity. But - I have yet to imagine any judge who would order a warrant against a former pope! Especially as I personally believe Joseph Ratzinger has never ever broken a law that he was aware of and that he has accepted as being valid. I don't think he was directly involved in disciplining priests or in bringing priests to worldly justice who have committed crimes. That was not his job and he is not responsible when others failed to react properly. What he did was viewing the situation he was made aware of in light of the Church doctrines and advise on how to handle things. He was not the executioner!
As the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, Cardinal Ratzinger was DIRECTLY responsible for disciplining priests and bringing priests to justice for committing crimes. That was his job. He's the one that created the process for how those cases were handled, and he directly over saw it. He stepped up the process to get pedophile priests defrocked, but still insisted these matters be handled by the church and not turned over to secular authorities.

In doing this, it is my opinion that he acted completely improperly and failed to protect children.
__________________

__________________
  #483  
Old 03-02-2013, 12:30 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
We don't know if he still enjoys diplomatic immunity or not. He still is a citizen of the Vatican City State as well as being German and we know nothing about how the VCS handles diplomatic immunity. !
Diplomatic immunity is not determined by your country of origin, it is determined by the country you are visiting or are accredited to.

While arrest is unlikely, I can imagine that if he were for instance to be visiting Ireland, the US or even The Netherlands he might be summoned to give testimony in a court of law about what he knew/when he knew it/ and what the policy was in dealing with priestly abuse. Remaining within the walls of the Vatican City State would prevent that from happening. Given his failing health I imagine a lot of foreign travel is not planned anyway especially since he has stated he will basically be withdrawing from public view anyway.
__________________
  #484  
Old 03-02-2013, 01:21 PM
lucien's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit View Post
One can say and think about the Catholic Church and its Cardinals what one wants and yes we are all aware Ratzinger was nothing more than the Head of the Inquisition but one thing that will never happen is that a former pope will be arrested. This is not a thriller by Dan Brown.
Kit,exactly!He will never be arrested regardless.As the Pontiff he acknowledged the abuse happened which is more then any of his predecessors ever did and meanwhile the victims of the abuse have been payed,and the Church is still paying the new and proven cases that emerged.And ofcourse,trying to single out those who love to ride on a free ticket to extra bucks for abuse they never had...Pecunia non olet...Not all is true what is said in many a claim...Just to set the record straight.... But the cases that have been proven to be right have been contacted and given a sum,not that the abuse desolves by any sum,but is not done/handled in a frugal way as far as the pecunia goes.And that is internationally acknowledged as a case "under way" and handled so whatever person shpould try,there are always those desperate to get attention at any rate...sadly enough even in these cases...people are people...and there are many kinds off...
So,in short,an "arrest" would never ever happen regardless where the Pope Emeritus would go.No.Not ever.Except when Tom Hanks says so ofcourse..and the Disney people who believe him...nah...grin..
__________________
  #485  
Old 03-02-2013, 04:53 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
As the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, Cardinal Ratzinger was DIRECTLY responsible for disciplining priests and bringing priests to justice for committing crimes. That was his job. He's the one that created the process for how those cases were handled, and he directly over saw it. He stepped up the process to get pedophile priests defrocked, but still insisted these matters be handled by the church and not turned over to secular authorities.

In doing this, it is my opinion that he acted completely improperly and failed to protect children.

What cases did he refuse to turn over to the authorities?

LaRae
__________________
  #486  
Old 03-02-2013, 06:15 PM
scooter's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit View Post
One can say and think about the Catholic Church and its Cardinals what one wants and yes we are all aware Ratzinger was nothing more than the Head of the Inquisition but one thing that will never happen is that a former pope will be arrested. This is not a thriller by Dan Brown.
Exactly the reason, IMO, why they have announced that he will never again leave the Vatican grounds. I would think though that he could be subpoenaed to give testimony in a civil case . I does not have diplomatic immunity any longe.
__________________
  #487  
Old 03-02-2013, 06:20 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 994
The pope said why he won't leave the grounds again. It has nothing to do with anything other than what he said. To make it into something else is just wishful thinking on those who have an axe to grind.




LaRae
__________________
  #488  
Old 03-02-2013, 07:50 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Posts: 8,951
Vatican explains why Sistine Chapel is still open, days before Conclave



__________________
Death of HSH Princess Grace of Monaco,September 14, 1982
  #489  
Old 03-02-2013, 10:06 PM
scooter's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
What cases did he refuse to turn over to the authorities?

LaRae
We will find out in short order when the 30,000 pages of correspondence on the subject are released by the court.
__________________
  #490  
Old 03-02-2013, 10:07 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
We will find out in short order when the 30,000 pages of correspondence on the subject are released by the court.

Ah so people are assuming then and making unfounded claims. The other poster made a statement as if it were fact. If it's factual I'd like to see specifics of what she is talking about.


LaRae
__________________
  #491  
Old 03-02-2013, 10:10 PM
scooter's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Diplomatic immunity is not determined by your country of origin, it is determined by the country you are visiting or are accredited to.

While arrest is unlikely, I can imagine that if he were for instance to be visiting Ireland, the US or even The Netherlands he might be summoned to give testimony in a court of law about what he knew/when he knew it/ and what the policy was in dealing with priestly abuse. Remaining within the walls of the Vatican City State would prevent that from happening. Given his failing health I imagine a lot of foreign travel is not planned anyway especially since he has stated he will basically be withdrawing from public view anyway.
I thought it was actually quite telling that the Vatican pre emptively announced that he would never be leaving vatican city again. For any reason? Ever? Really?

As far as diplomatic immunity, Ratzinger had diplomatic immunity because he was a Head of State, not because of extradition treaties.He is no longer a Head of State. Therefore, no diplomatic immunity exists for him.
__________________
  #492  
Old 03-02-2013, 10:13 PM
scooter's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Ah so people are assuming then and making unfounded claims. The other poster made a statement as if it were fact. If it's factual I'd like to see specifics of what she is talking about.


LaRae
Be patient for a few months. You wont have long to wait.
__________________
  #493  
Old 03-02-2013, 10:14 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Be patient for a few months. You wont have long to wait.
I see so the new standard is to assume people guilty of something before they are proven so. I hope you never sit on a jury.


LaRae
__________________
  #494  
Old 03-02-2013, 11:04 PM
scooter's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,349
LaRae, It's been reported on CNN, MSNBC, NY Times, Newsweek etc that these 30,000 pages of correspondence on the pedophilia case are about to be released.
__________________
  #495  
Old 03-02-2013, 11:07 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
LaRae, It's been reported on CNN, MSNBC, NY Times, Newsweek etc that these 30,000 pages of correspondence on the pedophilia case are about to be released.
So? Do you know what is in the documents? Nope and neither does the other poster making the statement.

If there are specific cases, as she stated, then I want to see her source of info on them.


LaRae
__________________
  #496  
Old 03-02-2013, 11:37 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: MO, United States
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
We don't know if he still enjoys diplomatic immunity or not. He still is a citizen of the Vatican City State as well as being German and we know nothing about how the VCS handles diplomatic immunity. But - I have yet to imagine any judge who would order a warrant against a former pope! Especially as I personally believe Joseph Ratzinger has never ever broken a law that he was aware of and that he has accepted as being valid. I don't think he was directly involved in disciplining priests or in bringing priests to worldly justice who have committed crimes. That was not his job and he is not responsible when others failed to react properly. What he did was viewing the situation he was made aware of in light of the Church doctrines and advise on how to handle things. He was not the executioner!
As if anything will happen to him.

The Catholic Church, as an institution, has gotten off pretty much punishment-free even though the abuse problems and their subsequent coverups were certainly institutional in nature.
__________________
  #497  
Old 03-02-2013, 11:41 PM
GracieGiraffe's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Giraffe Land, United States
Posts: 1,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
I thought it was actually quite telling that the Vatican pre emptively announced that he would never be leaving vatican city again. For any reason? Ever? Really?

As far as diplomatic immunity, Ratzinger had diplomatic immunity because he was a Head of State, not because of extradition treaties.He is no longer a Head of State. Therefore, no diplomatic immunity exists for him.
Exactly. What if he needed some serious surgery, for example.

These are not good times for the Vatican, methinks.
__________________
The future George VII's opinion on infant carriers,
"One is not amused."
  #498  
Old 03-03-2013, 12:20 AM
lucien's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
LaRae, It's been reported on CNN, MSNBC, NY Times, Newsweek etc that these 30,000 pages of correspondence on the pedophilia case are about to be released.
So?Oh wow..It carries weight since CNN reported on it,and MSNBC...Oh wow...well,...Not on this side of the ocean it doesn't...they report what they like,and have all have a nice read..Yet,that will not,not now and not ever,change that the Pope Emeritus will never be arrested.,no way.

...
__________________
  #499  
Old 03-03-2013, 12:25 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien View Post
So?..Yet,that will not,not now and not ever,change that the Pope Emeritus will never be arrested.,no way.

...
Well not as long as he remains locked up in seclusion on The Vatican City State anyway
__________________
  #500  
Old 03-03-2013, 12:47 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,495
Obviously if there is a case to answer it won't be in the Vatican so if he stays there he will be fine but...if he leaves The Vatican then there is a chance that some secular government, not overwhelmed by the position that he has given up, could decide that he should be arrested to face the charges - but it all comes down to whether there is a case to answer.

As we don't know what will happen in the future we can't say that he will or won't be arrested if he leaves The Vatican if there is a case for him to answer - either criminal or civil - depending on the laws of the individual countries own laws.
__________________

__________________
Closed Thread

Tags
catholic church, catholicism, pope, pope benedict xvi, vatican


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
State Visit from the Netherlands (21-22 January 2013) Princess Robijn Royal Family of Brunei 61 03-20-2013 04:40 AM
Dutch State Visit to Singapore; January 24-25, 2013 Princess Robijn Dutch Royals 22 01-27-2013 01:43 PM
Duchess of Cambridge current events 2: 1 February 2012 - 5 January 2013 Zonk Current Events Archive 1905 01-05-2013 07:37 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king constantine ii king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympics ottoman poland pom president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess letizia princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:08 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]