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  #301  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CelestialPrincess View Post
I think someone confused the monarchy and the church
Well the Pope is also considered a monarch so I guess it could be a natural mistake.
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  #302  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Well the Pope is also considered a monarch so I guess it could be a natural mistake.
True true, it would make sense
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  #303  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Those same Gospels were written by men, translated/mistranslated, added to and removed from versions of the Bible over centuries. One wonders if any of the Apostles or even Jesus himself would recognize what is preached from the pulpits todays as the word of God.
NGalitzine, ANYTHING Jesus preached today would likely be regarded as intolerant or unloving.

Things like fasting, prayer, charity, self-sacrifice and obediance to the will of God as recorded in Scripture-all preached by Christ, would likely be met with scorn. He used the word "sin" and warned against the deceits of Satan, often too.

Yet,when was the last time you heard anyone use the word SIN or SATAN and not be dismissed as a religious fanatic kook?? There is no such thing as sin anymore according to the modern world that I am constantly hearing the Church is out of step with...there is only "dysfunction" and "low self esteem".
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  #304  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:17 PM
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[QUOTE=Moonmaiden23;1515921]NGalitzine, ANYTHING Jesus preached today would likely be regarded as intolerant or unloving.

QUOTE]

Actually I believe quite the opposite but I was raised on a God who was about love and acceptance of all people......which seems very different from what I hear out of many preachers mouths today.
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  #305  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:32 PM
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Loving and accepting a person does not equal accepting sin/sinful behavior.


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  #306  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:42 PM
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When I listen to a lot of preachers they seem to pick and chose what is or is not a sin/abomination pretty randomly.
My viewpoint is if you live by the 10 Commandments and the Golden Rule you are probably a pretty descent person and that is good enough for me.
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  #307  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:45 PM
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That's fine if that is your personal theology...however Jesus had a different take on things....He was pretty clear about 'go and sin no more', among other things.

I've been attending Mass for over 20 years and Homilies are generally not geared that way, the focus of the Homily is generally on the Gospel that was just read.


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  #308  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:49 PM
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Jesus, today would be a man who went where he was needed, as he did then. He would love all who wished love to others. He was caring and accepting, unlike the dogma of the churches who pretend to represent him. He was open to all who wished to come and he was not trying to create blind obedience, he was trying to make people think and care. He did not seek riches nor live in a palace. He was modest and kind.
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  #309  
Old 02-11-2013, 11:03 PM
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Jesus, today would be a man who went where he was needed, as he did then. He would love all who wished love to others. He was caring and accepting, unlike the dogma of the churches who pretend to represent him. He was open to all who wished to come and he was not trying to create blind obedience, he was trying to make people think and care. He did not seek riches nor live in a palace. He was modest and kind.
He also didn't seek power and was very clear that there was a lot of spiritual goodness to be found in serving others. He didn't lecture people about their sins before he helped them- he just helped.

He was also pretty clear about the idea that everyone is a sinner- didn't promote the idea that people should be shamed or ostracized for their sins.

He also took a dim view of the Pharisees, so I can't seem him being too sold on any person who proclaims to speak in his name while preaching hate and anger.

I really would love to see a pope who promote that kind of loving acceptance but I seriously doubt it will happen.
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  #310  
Old 02-11-2013, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
He also didn't seek power and was very clear that there was a lot of spiritual goodness to be found in serving others. He didn't lecture people about their sins before he helped them- he just helped.

He was also pretty clear about the idea that everyone is a sinner- didn't promote the idea that people should be shamed or ostracized for their sins.

He also took a dim view of the Pharisees, so I can't seem him being too sold on any person who proclaims to speak in his name while preaching hate and anger.

I really would love to see a pope who promote that kind of loving acceptance but I seriously doubt it will happen.
It might happen this time, we can always hope
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  #311  
Old 02-11-2013, 11:24 PM
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[ I really would love to see a pope who promote that kind of loving acceptance but I seriously doubt it will happen. ]// quote

The Church has had many popes and preachers and saints like that for people who care to look...John XXIII, John Paul I and II, St Francis of Assisi, Mother Theresa...there is really not enough room to name them all.

But they preached loved and acceptance through the prism of the Gospel...it must always be accompanied by obedience to the word of God.

Always.

No true Pope or preacher of the Gospel of Christ is going to tell someone to go and do whatever you want as long as it fulfills you. Christ didn't do it, and it's not what truly loving someone is all about anyway.

It sounds more like hedonism disguised as true Christian love.

People seem to think now "it's all about ME. And if I want to do it and it fulfills ME and makes ME feel good, nobody including the Church should object".

The day we get a Pope who agrees with that nonsense is the day I leave, because it's not the Gospel that is being preached anymore.
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  #312  
Old 02-11-2013, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Loving and accepting a person does not equal accepting sin/sinful behavior.


LaRae
Yes, we are called to love the person and be merciful . . . but yet we are to hate the sinful behavior. Indeed, Jesus said . . . "repent and sin more". This is so beautiful to know that we can always start anew. The liturgical calendar of the Church reminds us on each Ash Wednesday that God loves us and He has a purpose for each one of us. We can always start anew . . .
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  #313  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:05 AM
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One of the great problems in "lack of love" is the lack of love between various denominations of the Christian church. There are fundamentals of the Gospel of Jesus which many different denominations uphold, although sometimes with frailty. We should respect other denominations--Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant of various kinds. I find I am able to do this, and if I can, most people can. This does not mean, as Moonmaiden says, denying the main points of the Gospel, as some priests and pastors are willing to do today. I have found good in many different parishes, and also I have found evil too much to stay with, in some. Sigh.

I think the resigning Pope is a good man. I cannot agree with every one of the laws of the Church he taught and upheld, so I can't be a member of his church, even though I see great good in it, as well as bad. I HAD to leave my first husband, although if an angel had been sent to save the marriage, well then, halleluya. I think some people HAVE to practice birth control--I didn't, as circumstances meant that I had only one child, even though I wanted more. But I know some people really need it. And I think priests should marry if they want to. These are important enough to me that I had to leave the Catholic Church. But I still respect the good it does in the world!
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  #314  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:13 AM
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Wait....how'd a conversation about the Pope resignation turn into an argument about Jesus and the bible?
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  #315  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CelestialPrincess View Post
Wait....how'd a conversation about the Pope resignation turn into an argument about Jesus and the bible?
Honestly, it's kind of a natural discussion to get into whenever you're discussing a religious figure, their legacy, and what direction their church should take.
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  #316  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:33 AM
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This most likely would never have made news on any other day but it seems that a few hours after the Pope announced his resignation, St. Paul's Cathedral was struck by lightning.

http://www.blogcdn.com/weather.aol.c...fp-vatican.jpg
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  #317  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:59 AM
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So does that mean God approves or disapproves?

I'm a Protestant but I admit I find all this fascinating. I remember being very interested during the last Conclave as to how it all worked.
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  #318  
Old 02-12-2013, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by COESpiral View Post
So does that mean God approves or disapproves?
Well... perhaps He was just in the mood for a light show.
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  #319  
Old 02-12-2013, 01:50 AM
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I think it was hard for him to live through the pressure, specially after having to succeed a figure that was as popular and beloved as John Paul II was, I think Benedict never really wanted to be Pope but had to go through it since he felt it was a part of God's plan for him and the world.

The difference between his first greeting and the resignation speech is staggering, he was an old man when he became Pope but today he looked incredibly weak, frail and I believe the choice he took was the best for the Church.

JP II was only 58 when he was elected and his Pontificate was a time of growth and advance in the Church (don't expect a Pope to be down with gay marriage or birth control, it goes against the most dogmatic part of Catholicism, which they are supposed to be the Defenders of), I hope the next Cardinal that is elected is in his 60s at most, we all knew Benedict was a transitional Pope but never expected him to leave as soon as he did and in the circumstances he did, if we get a younger Pope, we could have another long Pontificate where the Church can keep moving forward like it has been doing since the second half of the XX Century (what other religion has undergone as so many changes as Catholicism has done since the Second Vatican Council?).
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  #320  
Old 02-12-2013, 03:22 AM
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Hopefully we'll have a new Pope by Easter!

I think that it part of the reason for going now - it gives the Cardinals about 3 weeks from when he steps down officially until the start of Holy Week and I do think he wants the new Pope in place by then.
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