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  #41  
Old 05-23-2009, 06:54 AM
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She is not a Princess of Bourbon-Parma, since Duke Carlos of Parma recognised her marriage to Henri as morganatic; however, in 1986 Grand Duke Jean renounced for himself and his family to the Bourbon-Parma titles.
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  #42  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:59 PM
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That's not fair. This titles stuff is confusing.
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  #43  
Old 05-24-2009, 09:09 AM
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I think it clear discrimination. I don't understand what this people have against Maria Teresa. I'm happy we live in another times and now it's better.
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  #44  
Old 05-24-2009, 07:12 PM
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Grace Marie I agree with you. But GD Maria Teresa probably doesn't have any other titles, because Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte didn't want her to have any. I'm just assuming.
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  #45  
Old 05-25-2009, 12:56 AM
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As Lalla Meriem said earlier, it is important to remember that Grand Duke Jean still holds many of the titles that come from his parents, Felix and Charlotte. They will be passed on to Grand Duke Henri when Jean passes, so Maria-Teresa will take on the feminine version of them when that happens. I don't see where the discrimination is, apart from the Bourbon-Parma title, which is only one title compared to the dozen-odd still associated with Jean, and Jean renounced the Bourbon-Parma title for the whole family in the late '80s anyway.
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  #46  
Old 05-25-2009, 03:07 AM
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Oh, I get it she'll get the titles later in life, But when Grand Duke Jean dies GD Henri will inherit his titles. Thanks Jezrulz.
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  #47  
Old 05-25-2009, 12:25 PM
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How can somebody support monarchies while thinking that some exclusions are discriminating? I support the Bourbon-Parma policy!
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  #48  
Old 05-25-2009, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by JessRulz View Post
I don't see where the discrimination is, apart from the Bourbon-Parma title, which is only one title compared to the dozen-odd still associated with Jean, and Jean renounced the Bourbon-Parma title for the whole family in the late '80s anyway.
I don't mean only this single title but whole situation. I was schocked when I've read what was royals reaction on Henri and MT marriage. If I mean right, some of noble guests refuse to came to their wedding becouse of her backgrounds.

I don't blame them if they ignore the wedding prince with sb like Paris Hilton...But MT didn't nothing wrong. She just haven't noble European family.

Sorry for my english. My english teacher would have heart attack if she writes some my comments.
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  #49  
Old 05-25-2009, 07:13 PM
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Why didn't people like Maria Teresa when she and the GD got married? she she seems like a nice person.
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  #50  
Old 07-19-2009, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JulieS View Post
In Vatican, GD Maria Teresa is considered a queen, because she can wear white in presence of the pope.

http://www.monarchie.lu/fr/Galerie/E...ere_img_01.jpg
Why isnt the consorts/orincesses of Monaco awarded the priveldge of white when meeting His Holiness. Rainier was a Catholic Monarch
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  #51  
Old 07-19-2009, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DuedePhiladelphia View Post
Why isnt the consorts/orincesses of Monaco awarded the priveldge of white when meeting His Holiness. Rainier was a Catholic Monarch
Not the best source but should be ok
"...the privilège du blanc is held only by the Queens of Spain and Belgium, and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg, all of whose monarchies were awarded the Catholic Monarch designation in the past. As of July 2009, those to whom the privilège du blanc extends are Queen Sofia of Spain, Queen Paola of Belgium, Queen Fabiola of Belgium, and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg."
Privilège du blanc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There were or maybe still are some ladies from the house of Savoy.
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  #52  
Old 08-08-2009, 10:47 PM
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New Noble Titles Created by Grand Duke?

My recollection is that, unlike some monarchs, the Grand-Duke still can create new noble titles (not just for family members) and that, as in Belgium and Spain, some of these are even hereditary.

But I haven't been able to find any information on the web about cases in which they have done this. Does it still happen regularly? You can find the decrees issued by the King of Spain and the King of Belgium doing this, but I haven't found any information about Luxembourg.
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  #53  
Old 08-09-2009, 08:04 PM
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He can create titles per the current constitution. Who knows what the new constitution will do to his ability to create titles.

Four of the five Swedish princes who lost their titles due to marriages with commoners were granted the title Count of Wisborg by reigning Luxembourg monarchs. The first was the title given to former Prince Oscar by Grand Duke Adolphe on Feb. 2, 1892. The following 3 of the 4 conferred in Luxembourg were done by Grand Duchess Charlotte for former princes Lennart, Sigvard, and Carl Johan all on July 2, 1951. The 5th Swedish prince to lose his title was granted new title by King Leopold of the Belgians.

Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma also received the title Prince of Luxembourg and was incorporated into the Luxembourg nobility with this title.

Additionally, the titles created for the children of Princes Jean, Robert and Louis are hereditary in the male line with no generational limits. All the male line descendants of a reigning Luxembourg Grand Duke or Grand Duchess who contract marriages with consent pass the title Prince/ss of Nassau with the style of Royal Highness on to their children per the September 21, 1995 Decree of Grand Duke Jean. These titles are not hereditary for the descendants of females.

I haven't saw the decree for the titles of the children of Prince Louis yet. It hasn't been released in Memorial yet. However, I think it is safe to assume it is along the same lines as the creations made for the descendants of Princes Robert and Jean and that Gabriel and Noah carry hereditary titles.

Aside from the creation of titles for members of the Grand Ducal Family I cannot find a record of any title created other than the titles conferred on the former Swedish Princes in recent history. Luxembourg does have a nobility, but it is difficult to find records of titles.
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  #54  
Old 09-01-2009, 11:52 PM
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I don't think it was a personal attack against H.R.H. The Grand Duchess (Maria Teresa), but the fact remains she was a commonor, although an aristocratic one at best.

H.R.H. Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte presumably believed her son and heir to the throne should contract an equal marriage, e.g. Princess or at least a girl from the nobility. This of course was not to be and it has been rumored that Grand Duchess Maria Teresa and Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte did not get on very well privately.

I, for one, believes that family disagreements are personal and should remain within the family as it is not seemly to discuss them when that facts are unknown.

I wish Her Royal Highness a speedy recovery.
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  #55  
Old 09-26-2009, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Count langley View Post
I don't think it was a personal attack against H.R.H. The Grand Duchess (Maria Teresa), but the fact remains she was a commonor, although an aristocratic one at best.

H.R.H. Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte presumably believed her son and heir to the throne should contract an equal marriage, e.g. Princess or at least a girl from the nobility. This of course was not to be and it has been rumored that Grand Duchess Maria Teresa and Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte did not get on very well privately.

I, for one, believes that family disagreements are personal and should remain within the family as it is not seemly to discuss them when that facts are unknown.

I wish Her Royal Highness a speedy recovery.
Grand Duchess Josephine-Charlotte fully supported her son's choice to marry the person he wanted. The bitterness between her and Maria-Teresa arouse later and was not a result of her wedding to Henri. It was Grand Duke Jean and Grand Duchess Charlotte who were not in favor of the match. Obviously, they relented after Henri's threats to renounce. How ironic that it was Grand Duke Jean who seemed to enjoy a friendly and close relationship with Maria-Teresa.

I, too, feel that personal matters should be kept personal. I often wonder how Archduchess Marie-Astrid, Princess Margarethe, Prince Jean and Prince Guillaume felt about Maria-Teresa following her press conference about their mother (who was already ill at the time).

I think that Henri made an excellent choice. Maria-Teresa may not have been aristocratic or European by birth but she was certainly a respectable young women from a good family. Her family was even said to be wealthier than the Grand Ducal Family.

I often think of the circumstances of the life of Maria-Teresa and remind myself that even bad things may turn out for the best. Just think if Castro hadn't come to power in Cuba her family would likely have remained in Cuba and we wouldn't have a Grand Duchess Maria-Teresa, Prince Felix, ect...Things that start out badly may yet have a happy ending if you persevere.
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  #56  
Old 11-05-2009, 03:02 AM
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I know that the order of rank goes emperor-king-grand duke-archduke-prince and that a Grand Duke would not have to bow to a King as they are both Heads of State, but does a hereditary Grand Duke have to bow to a Crown Prince (or any the heir of a king) or are they considered to be equal because they are both heirs?
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  #57  
Old 11-05-2009, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Principessa Cano View Post
I know that the order of rank goes emperor-king-grand duke-archduke-prince and that a Grand Duke would not have to bow to a King as they are both Heads of State, but does a hereditary Grand Duke have to bow to a Crown Prince (or any the heir of a king) or are they considered to be equal because they are both heirs?
Actually, Archduke is generally before a non-reigning Grand Duke. Ranking based on title alone is no longer practiced and was associated more with the style a person carried (the various forms of Highness and Majesty are styles not titles) than their title.

Heads of state are considered equal irregardless of their title or style. They are ranked only by years in their respective position, but are otherwise considered equal no matter be they Prince of Monaco, King of Spain, Grand Duke of Luxembourg or Emperor of Japan.

Eg. If all the monarchs of the world were attending an event together the King of Thailand would be seated first since he is the longest reigning monarch in the world (June 9, 1946) and the King of Bhutan as the newest monarch in the world (December 14, 2006) would be seated last. All the other monarchs would be seated between them (maybe not literally between them as you know tables, rows, seating and what not differ but you grasp my meaning). Just a note, I list the King of Bhutan as "lowest" because I do not count Nicolas Sarkosy in my rankings based on his position as Co-Prince of Andorra.

A major event would feature their arrivals based on rank as this. Persons of the local monarchy (and family) would, of course, arrive first others will arrive based on longest reigning monarch and within those families based on their individual rankings.

Heirs are equal and do not pay reverence (bowing or curtsying) to each other. Guillaume (and future wife) do not bow/curtsy to The Crown Prince of Japan (heir to an Emperor) or to The Prince of Asturias (heir to a King) and so forth. Naturally, you may see Guillaume take the hand of Crown Princess Victoria or another lady (even a commoner) and bow to her but his is gentlemanly curtsy based on their gender not their position or rank. I've saw Guillaume and his brothers do this for numerous ladies who rank below them or who are commoners because they are properly raised gentlemen The King of Spain also does this for ladies (he is also a gentleman). Some royal men are, IMHO, lacking in the area of basic etiquette and do not bow to ladies in general. I prefer the style of our Luxembourg family and The King of Spain who treat every lady as if she were, well, a lady. So, don't necessarily assume that when you see Guillaume or King Juan Carlos bow to a women that they are doing it because they think she outranks them they do it because they are gentlemen of class.

If you look through the pictures on the websites of Tom Wagner or Manuel Dias covering the silver wedding celebrations of Henri and MT you will see photographs of Guillaume, Louis and Felix making beautiful bows to ladies of every rank queen, princess, archduchess, countess and even lowly commoners.
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  #58  
Old 11-05-2009, 03:11 PM
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Excellent explanation Lalla! And you're absolutely right about Lux and Spanish royals, I guess it just proves that being smooth is a Latin thing.
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  #59  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:24 AM
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Thanks for the explanation. One can only wish there were more gentlemen in the world.
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  #60  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:27 PM
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Do they go by
HRH- his/ her royal highness
HGDH- his/ her grand ducal highness
Since they are a ducal family
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