Titles, Styles and Ranks of the Grand Ducal Family


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
The Princesses of Liechenstein and Monaco are not allowed tu wear "blanc" if they visite the Pope because they are Serene HH

But Sophie, the wife of Prince Alois, was a "royal highness" before her marriage and still is as his wife.
Isn't one always a "royal" highness - even after marriage to a "serene" highness?

I hope that I am correct on this.

Whoops, I forgot - Margarethe of Luxembourg was a "royal highness" of Luxembourg when she married into the Liechenstein family is she still titled as a Royal Highness?
 
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Whoops, I forgot - Margarethe of Luxembourg was a "royal highness" of Luxembourg when she married into the Liechenstein family is she still titled as a Royal Highness?

Yes. It works always like this. For example the Margravine of Baden is HI & RH and it was the same for the grandmother of Prince Hans Adam who as also a Archduchess of Austria by birth.
 
Yes. It works always like this. For example the Margravine of Baden is HI & RH and it was the same for the grandmother of Prince Hans Adam who as also a Archduchess of Austria by birth.

I'm sorry but I don't understand. So, Margarethe and Sophie are still known and addressed as "royal highness"?
Margarethe would be HRH Princess Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Her husband would be HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Caroline of Monaco is HRH Princess Caroline of Hannover - is she still
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco or HRH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

Thanks so much!
 
When Prince gulliame's brothers (excluding louis) and his sister get's married, will their spouses have the title his or her Royal highness Prince or Princess.

How did this thread get on other royals ????? lol
 
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I'm sorry but I don't understand. So, Margarethe and Sophie are still known and addressed as "royal highness"?
Margarethe would be HRH Princess Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Her husband would be HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Caroline of Monaco is HRH Princess Caroline of Hannover - is she still
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco or HRH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

Thanks so much!

When a person is entitled to use two styles, the highest of the two styles is usually used. So, since The Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein is entitled to use both Royal Highness and Serene Highness, it's logical that she'll choose to use her premarital style of Royal Highness. The Princess of Hanover is entitled to use both Serene Highness and Royal Highness, so it's logical that she'll choose to use her marital style of Royal Highness. By the way, Caroline is not normally styled "HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover" in English. She is styled "HRH The Princess of Hanover", because she is the spouse of the pretender and thus ranks higher than other princesses of Hanover. The article "the" generally promotes the person to a higher status.

When Prince gulliame's brothers (excluding louis) and his sister get's married, will their spouses have the title his or her Royal highness Prince or Princess.

How did this thread get on other royals ????? lol

Wives of princes become princesses, while husbands of princesses do not become princes unless the Sovereign gives them the title.
 
I'm sorry but I don't understand. So, Margarethe and Sophie are still known and addressed as "royal highness"?
Margarethe would be HRH Princess Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Her husband would be HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Caroline of Monaco is HRH Princess Caroline of Hannover - is she still
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco or HRH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

Thanks so much!

Caroline is styled as HRH The Princess of Hannover since her marriage.

Margarethe is remains styled as HRH Princess Margarethe of Luxembourg and her husband remains HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechtenstein. Princess Margarethe is frequently styled as HRH Princess Margarethe of Liechtenstein which I supposed isn't technically incorrect.

Yes, Princess Margarethe and Princess Sophie remain styled as HRH because they have not lost their birth titles nor appellations.

The styles HRH vs HGDH has already been answered in the thread on styles concerning members of the family.

If Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume's siblings marry the titles of their spouses depend largely on whether or not those marriages are approved by Grand Duke Henri. The example of Prince Jean and Helen Vesture and Prince Louis and Tessy Antony are examples of this.

The decrees on the books in Luxembourg indicated that a Prince or Princess who contracts a marriage without consent will be titled as Count/ss of Nassau. The wives and children of a Prince who contracts a marriage without consent should also be Count/ss of Nassau under this decree. Although, in Luxembourg tradition has been that the Prince or Princess remains a Prince/ss with the style of Royal Highness while the rest of the decree applies to the wife and child.

The decree of September 21, 1995 (same decree related above) further indicates that only the children of a Grand Duke and a Hereditary Grand Duke shall bear the designation Prince/ss of Luxembourg with the style royal highness. The decree further indicates that the spouse of these specific Princes shall be Princess of Luxembourg and styled as Royal Highness.

The decree further indicates that the children of a Prince of Luxembourg who contracted a marriage with the consent of The Grand Duke shall carry the title Prince/ss of Nassau and the style of Royal Highness. The decree does not mention how the children of those men titled Prince of Nassau will be styled, and as none of them have married or produced children we have no examples to guide us - yet.

The decree also states that titles gained via marriage are automatically lost upon judicial separation, divorce or remarriage after death.

I found it interesting that titles gained by marriage to a "Prince of our House" are lost merely by judicial separation which occurs prior to a divorce. Which means that the soon-to-be ex-wife of a Prince would have lost her titles prior to the actual divorce.
 
Grand Duchess Maria Teresa and her titles

Does the Grand Duchess have any more titles such as countess, duchess, or lady or is she just simply Grand Duchess. I've been wondering this.:flowers:
 
One has to take into consideration that while Henri is the Grand Duke now that his father is still very much alive, so additional titles that would be inherited by Henri have yet to be inherited.

However, she is also Princess of Luxembourg, Princess of Nassau and until 1986 also a Princess of Bourbon-Parma since her marriage to Henri. One day she will also be Duchess of Nassau, Countess Palatine of the Rhine, Countess of Sayn, Königstein, Katzenelnbogen and Diez, Burgravine of Hammerstein, and Lady of Mahlberg, Wiesbaden, Idstein, Merenberg, Limburg and Eppstein. One should also note that these traditional German titles do not exist in legality due to the abolishment of titles in Germany and the female line decent unless one considers them to be newly created Luxembourg titles since they would have been inherted by Jean from his mother - which, of course, they sort of are. Much like the Bourbon Parma title created for Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume when he was named HGD.
 
Thanks, so your trying to say she has yet to inherit the further titles you have just listed.
 
It is The Grand Duke who will inherit them not his wife. She will just acquire the feminine version of them via courtesy per the normal standard that the wife has equal dignity as her husband.
 
She is not a Princess of Bourbon-Parma, since Duke Carlos of Parma recognised her marriage to Henri as morganatic; however, in 1986 Grand Duke Jean renounced for himself and his family to the Bourbon-Parma titles.
 
That's not fair. This titles stuff is confusing.
 
I think it clear discrimination. I don't understand what this people have against Maria Teresa. I'm happy we live in another times and now it's better.
 
Grace Marie I agree with you. But GD Maria Teresa probably doesn't have any other titles, because Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte didn't want her to have any. I'm just assuming.
 
As Lalla Meriem said earlier, it is important to remember that Grand Duke Jean still holds many of the titles that come from his parents, Felix and Charlotte. They will be passed on to Grand Duke Henri when Jean passes, so Maria-Teresa will take on the feminine version of them when that happens. I don't see where the discrimination is, apart from the Bourbon-Parma title, which is only one title compared to the dozen-odd still associated with Jean, and Jean renounced the Bourbon-Parma title for the whole family in the late '80s anyway.
 
Oh, I get it she'll get the titles later in life, But when Grand Duke Jean dies GD Henri will inherit his titles. Thanks Jezrulz.
 
How can somebody support monarchies while thinking that some exclusions are discriminating? I support the Bourbon-Parma policy!
 
I don't see where the discrimination is, apart from the Bourbon-Parma title, which is only one title compared to the dozen-odd still associated with Jean, and Jean renounced the Bourbon-Parma title for the whole family in the late '80s anyway.

I don't mean only this single title but whole situation. I was schocked when I've read what was royals reaction on Henri and MT marriage. If I mean right, some of noble guests refuse to came to their wedding becouse of her backgrounds.

I don't blame them if they ignore the wedding prince with sb like Paris Hilton...But MT didn't nothing wrong. She just haven't noble European family.

Sorry for my english. My english teacher would have heart attack if she writes some my comments.
 
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Why didn't people like Maria Teresa when she and the GD got married? she she seems like a nice person.
 
Why isnt the consorts/orincesses of Monaco awarded the priveldge of white when meeting His Holiness. Rainier was a Catholic Monarch
Not the best source but should be ok
"...the privilège du blanc is held only by the Queens of Spain and Belgium, and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg, all of whose monarchies were awarded the Catholic Monarch designation in the past. As of July 2009, those to whom the privilège du blanc extends are Queen Sofia of Spain, Queen Paola of Belgium, Queen Fabiola of Belgium, and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg."
Privilège du blanc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There were or maybe still are some ladies from the house of Savoy.
 
New Noble Titles Created by Grand Duke?

My recollection is that, unlike some monarchs, the Grand-Duke still can create new noble titles (not just for family members) and that, as in Belgium and Spain, some of these are even hereditary.

But I haven't been able to find any information on the web about cases in which they have done this. Does it still happen regularly? You can find the decrees issued by the King of Spain and the King of Belgium doing this, but I haven't found any information about Luxembourg.
 
He can create titles per the current constitution. Who knows what the new constitution will do to his ability to create titles.

Four of the five Swedish princes who lost their titles due to marriages with commoners were granted the title Count of Wisborg by reigning Luxembourg monarchs. The first was the title given to former Prince Oscar by Grand Duke Adolphe on Feb. 2, 1892. The following 3 of the 4 conferred in Luxembourg were done by Grand Duchess Charlotte for former princes Lennart, Sigvard, and Carl Johan all on July 2, 1951. The 5th Swedish prince to lose his title was granted new title by King Leopold of the Belgians.

Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma also received the title Prince of Luxembourg and was incorporated into the Luxembourg nobility with this title.

Additionally, the titles created for the children of Princes Jean, Robert and Louis are hereditary in the male line with no generational limits. All the male line descendants of a reigning Luxembourg Grand Duke or Grand Duchess who contract marriages with consent pass the title Prince/ss of Nassau with the style of Royal Highness on to their children per the September 21, 1995 Decree of Grand Duke Jean. These titles are not hereditary for the descendants of females.

I haven't saw the decree for the titles of the children of Prince Louis yet. It hasn't been released in Memorial yet. However, I think it is safe to assume it is along the same lines as the creations made for the descendants of Princes Robert and Jean and that Gabriel and Noah carry hereditary titles.

Aside from the creation of titles for members of the Grand Ducal Family I cannot find a record of any title created other than the titles conferred on the former Swedish Princes in recent history. Luxembourg does have a nobility, but it is difficult to find records of titles.
 
I don't think it was a personal attack against H.R.H. The Grand Duchess (Maria Teresa), but the fact remains she was a commonor, although an aristocratic one at best.

H.R.H. Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte presumably believed her son and heir to the throne should contract an equal marriage, e.g. Princess or at least a girl from the nobility. This of course was not to be and it has been rumored that Grand Duchess Maria Teresa and Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte did not get on very well privately.

I, for one, believes that family disagreements are personal and should remain within the family as it is not seemly to discuss them when that facts are unknown.

I wish Her Royal Highness a speedy recovery.
 
I don't think it was a personal attack against H.R.H. The Grand Duchess (Maria Teresa), but the fact remains she was a commonor, although an aristocratic one at best.

H.R.H. Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte presumably believed her son and heir to the throne should contract an equal marriage, e.g. Princess or at least a girl from the nobility. This of course was not to be and it has been rumored that Grand Duchess Maria Teresa and Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte did not get on very well privately.

I, for one, believes that family disagreements are personal and should remain within the family as it is not seemly to discuss them when that facts are unknown.

I wish Her Royal Highness a speedy recovery.

Grand Duchess Josephine-Charlotte fully supported her son's choice to marry the person he wanted. The bitterness between her and Maria-Teresa arouse later and was not a result of her wedding to Henri. It was Grand Duke Jean and Grand Duchess Charlotte who were not in favor of the match. Obviously, they relented after Henri's threats to renounce. How ironic that it was Grand Duke Jean who seemed to enjoy a friendly and close relationship with Maria-Teresa.

I, too, feel that personal matters should be kept personal. I often wonder how Archduchess Marie-Astrid, Princess Margarethe, Prince Jean and Prince Guillaume felt about Maria-Teresa following her press conference about their mother (who was already ill at the time).

I think that Henri made an excellent choice. Maria-Teresa may not have been aristocratic or European by birth but she was certainly a respectable young women from a good family. Her family was even said to be wealthier than the Grand Ducal Family.

I often think of the circumstances of the life of Maria-Teresa and remind myself that even bad things may turn out for the best. Just think if Castro hadn't come to power in Cuba her family would likely have remained in Cuba and we wouldn't have a Grand Duchess Maria-Teresa, Prince Felix, ect...Things that start out badly may yet have a happy ending if you persevere. :flowers:
 
I know that the order of rank goes emperor-king-grand duke-archduke-prince and that a Grand Duke would not have to bow to a King as they are both Heads of State, but does a hereditary Grand Duke have to bow to a Crown Prince (or any the heir of a king) or are they considered to be equal because they are both heirs?
 
I know that the order of rank goes emperor-king-grand duke-archduke-prince and that a Grand Duke would not have to bow to a King as they are both Heads of State, but does a hereditary Grand Duke have to bow to a Crown Prince (or any the heir of a king) or are they considered to be equal because they are both heirs?

Actually, Archduke is generally before a non-reigning Grand Duke. Ranking based on title alone is no longer practiced and was associated more with the style a person carried (the various forms of Highness and Majesty are styles not titles) than their title.

Heads of state are considered equal irregardless of their title or style. They are ranked only by years in their respective position, but are otherwise considered equal no matter be they Prince of Monaco, King of Spain, Grand Duke of Luxembourg or Emperor of Japan.

Eg. If all the monarchs of the world were attending an event together the King of Thailand would be seated first since he is the longest reigning monarch in the world (June 9, 1946) and the King of Bhutan as the newest monarch in the world (December 14, 2006) would be seated last. All the other monarchs would be seated between them (maybe not literally between them as you know tables, rows, seating and what not differ but you grasp my meaning). Just a note, I list the King of Bhutan as "lowest" because I do not count Nicolas Sarkosy in my rankings based on his position as Co-Prince of Andorra.

A major event would feature their arrivals based on rank as this. Persons of the local monarchy (and family) would, of course, arrive first others will arrive based on longest reigning monarch and within those families based on their individual rankings.

Heirs are equal and do not pay reverence (bowing or curtsying) to each other. Guillaume (and future wife) do not bow/curtsy to The Crown Prince of Japan (heir to an Emperor) or to The Prince of Asturias (heir to a King) and so forth. Naturally, you may see Guillaume take the hand of Crown Princess Victoria or another lady (even a commoner) and bow to her but his is gentlemanly curtsy based on their gender not their position or rank. I've saw Guillaume and his brothers do this for numerous ladies who rank below them or who are commoners because they are properly raised gentlemen ;) The King of Spain also does this for ladies (he is also a gentleman). Some royal men are, IMHO, lacking in the area of basic etiquette and do not bow to ladies in general. I prefer the style of our Luxembourg family and The King of Spain who treat every lady as if she were, well, a lady. So, don't necessarily assume that when you see Guillaume or King Juan Carlos bow to a women that they are doing it because they think she outranks them they do it because they are gentlemen of class.

If you look through the pictures on the websites of Tom Wagner or Manuel Dias covering the silver wedding celebrations of Henri and MT you will see photographs of Guillaume, Louis and Felix making beautiful bows to ladies of every rank queen, princess, archduchess, countess and even lowly commoners.
 
:previous:

Excellent explanation Lalla! And you're absolutely right about Lux and Spanish royals, I guess it just proves that being smooth is a Latin thing;).
 
Thanks for the explanation. One can only wish there were more gentlemen in the world.
 
Do they go by
HRH- his/ her royal highness
HGDH- his/ her grand ducal highness
Since they are a ducal family
 
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