Titles, Styles and Ranks of the Grand Ducal Family

[Kotroman]

Originally Posted by LadyLeana

Being the wife of a reigning monarch, she is more or less equal in rank to those who hold the title Queen Consort. I can't imagine she would have to courtesy Queen Paola of Belgium, or Queen Sofia of Spain.

Nobody (neither me nor you) has to courtesy The Queen of the Belgians or The Queen of Spain. People choose to do so, and if The Grand Duchess of Luxembourg wants to respect tradition, she would courtesy Majesties and Imperial Majesties (and perhaps Imperial Highnesses). I don't think she'll ever do it, though, because all heads of state are considerd equal nowadays.

[rociocristina]

Thank you, and I saw in the funeral of the pope jean 2 and maria teresa was of white as the other queens that were present

[EmpressRouge]

She and the "Catholic Queens" and some deposed Catholic royal and noble women can exercise the Privilège du blanc. You can see more pictures on this thread Royals Visiting the Pope and read about it here Privilège du blanc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Princess Mia]

Thanks Girls. Do you girls think that Grand Duchess is a cool title.I never liked it becase I always thought It was a rank as a Duchess(which it's not of course) But just with the Grand at the begining.What's your opinion.

[Kotroman]

Perhaps it doesn't sound "cool", but it is a high ranking title (just below king). Though I'm not sure which title ranks higher: Grand Duke or Archduke. Both titles are some kind of a super-duke

P.S. Some of the users of this forum are male (MAfan and I, for example).

[EmpressRouge]

Originally Posted by JulieS

Catholic noble women can wear white in presence of the pope ? Are you sure of this ? According to Wikipedia, "as of February 2009, those to whom the privilège du blanc extends are Queen Sofia of Spain, Queen Paola of Belgium, Queen Fabiola of Belgium, and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg".

I believe they are the only legally-recognized royals who can take part. However, as the wiki article states, the dress code is optional now, so even I can technically wear white to see the Pope. I'd be ridiculed in the press (like Cherie Blair was, although it turns she just didn't have time to change for the spontaneous meeting), but it wouldn't be against the law. Many women still choose to wear black or exercise the privelege out of historical tradition. I know that all princesses of the House of Savoy were alotted the privilege du blanc as I posted in the "Royals visiting the Pope" thread
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...&postcount=125
I have read that certain noble princely Italian families (who had reigned in the former papal states) also have the privelege but I have found no evidence yet, so I can't be sure. Also, I've also read that Archduchesses from the House of Hapsburg have that privilege, so I'm wondering if Princess of Astrid of Belgium has ever worn white to see the Pope if this were true as she would accorded this right through her marriage to Archduke Lorenz, if she chose to follow tradition.

[JessRulz]

A Grand Duke ranks higher that an Archduke. The basic (top-end) structure is: Emperor - King - Grand Duke - Archduke - Prince

[LadyLeana]

I always thought it would be quite respectless of me if I didn't courtesy a royal upon meeting them. (never had the opportunity, so far, but you know, in the event of...)

I guess I'm the new generation who does consider the Grand Duchess equal to the Queens abovementioned. Only in matters of Heads of State amongs each other though. In the unlikely event I'd ever host a dinner party for the various royals from around the globe, I'd follow the usual ranking

[Kotroman]

It's not the title which makes me consider The Grand Duchess lower ranking than a queen, but her style. She is a Royal Highness, just like a daughter of a king, so it seems natural to me that a Majesty outranks her But you are right when you say that she wouldn't bow to anyone, because it could be viewed as Luxembourg being subordinate to Spain.

Originally Posted by LadyLeana

I always thought it would be quite respectless of me if I didn't courtesy a royal upon meeting them. (never had the opportunity, so far, but you know, in the event of...)

I know, I would courtesy too. I meant to say that The Grand Duchess of Luxembourg can choose not to courtesy anyone, just like we can

[LadyLeana]

It's not the title which makes me consider The Grand Duchess lower ranking than a queen, but her style. She is a Royal Highness, just like a daughter of a king, so it seems natural to me that a Majesty outranks her But you are right when you say that she wouldn't bow to anyone, because it could be viewed as Luxembourg being subordinate to Spain.

You explain me better than I can explain myself

That's exactly what I meant

[pamk]

The title of "Grand Duchess" has always seemed strange to me as I had always associated it with tsarist Russia - as His/Her Imperial Highness Grand Duke/Duchess ...
But, Luxembourg does seem to be its own little Kingdom or Grand Duchy with the Grand Duke wielding great power. At least the royals there can style themselves as "royal highnesses" and not as "serene highnesses" as in Monaco.

[Kotroman]

I find nothing strange in the title of Grand Duke of Luxembourg. As I said above, the title born by the daughters and daughters-in-law of the Emperors of Russia would be correctly translated as "Grand Princess" (Великая Княжна). Княжна is translated as "Princess", so it seems logical that Великая Княжна would be translated as Grand Princess. However, I guess that British royals didn't want to imply that the Russian princesses rank higher than the British princesses and thus decided to style them as Grand Duchesses rather than as Grand Princesses.

[LadyLeana]

Originally Posted by pamk

The title of "Grand Duchess" has always seemed strange to me as I had always associated it with tsarist Russia - as His/Her Imperial Highness Grand Duke/Duchess ...
But, Luxembourg does seem to be its own little Kingdom or Grand Duchy with the Grand Duke wielding great power. At least the royals there can style themselves as "royal highnesses" and not as "serene highnesses" as in Monaco.

I believe they are all styled "Royal Highness" since the marriage of Grand Duchess Charlotte to Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma. Before that, they were "Grand Ducal Hignesses", and only the Grand Duke and the heir apparent were styled "Royal Highness".

[maria-olivia]

The Princesses of Liechenstein and Monaco are not allowed tu wear "blanc" if they visite the Pope because they are Serene HH

[pamk]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

The Princesses of Liechenstein and Monaco are not allowed tu wear "blanc" if they visite the Pope because they are Serene HH

But Sophie, the wife of Prince Alois, was a "royal highness" before her marriage and still is as his wife.
Isn't one always a "royal" highness - even after marriage to a "serene" highness?

I hope that I am correct on this.

Whoops, I forgot - Margarethe of Luxembourg was a "royal highness" of Luxembourg when she married into the Liechenstein family is she still titled as a Royal Highness?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by pamk

Whoops, I forgot - Margarethe of Luxembourg was a "royal highness" of Luxembourg when she married into the Liechenstein family is she still titled as a Royal Highness?

Yes. It works always like this. For example the Margravine of Baden is HI & RH and it was the same for the grandmother of Prince Hans Adam who as also a Archduchess of Austria by birth.

[pamk]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Yes. It works always like this. For example the Margravine of Baden is HI & RH and it was the same for the grandmother of Prince Hans Adam who as also a Archduchess of Austria by birth.

I'm sorry but I don't understand. So, Margarethe and Sophie are still known and addressed as "royal highness"?
Margarethe would be HRH Princess Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Her husband would be HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Caroline of Monaco is HRH Princess Caroline of Hannover - is she still
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco or HRH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

Thanks so much!

[Lalla Meriem]

Originally Posted by pamk

I'm sorry but I don't understand. So, Margarethe and Sophie are still known and addressed as "royal highness"?
Margarethe would be HRH Princess Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Her husband would be HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Caroline of Monaco is HRH Princess Caroline of Hannover - is she still
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco or HRH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

Thanks so much!

Caroline is styled as HRH The Princess of Hannover since her marriage.

Margarethe is remains styled as HRH Princess Margarethe of Luxembourg and her husband remains HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechtenstein. Princess Margarethe is frequently styled as HRH Princess Margarethe of Liechtenstein which I supposed isn't technically incorrect.

Yes, Princess Margarethe and Princess Sophie remain styled as HRH because they have not lost their birth titles nor appellations.

The styles HRH vs HGDH has already been answered in the thread on styles concerning members of the family.

If Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume's siblings marry the titles of their spouses depend largely on whether or not those marriages are approved by Grand Duke Henri. The example of Prince Jean and Helen Vesture and Prince Louis and Tessy Antony are examples of this.

The decrees on the books in Luxembourg indicated that a Prince or Princess who contracts a marriage without consent will be titled as Count/ss of Nassau. The wives and children of a Prince who contracts a marriage without consent should also be Count/ss of Nassau under this decree. Although, in Luxembourg tradition has been that the Prince or Princess remains a Prince/ss with the style of Royal Highness while the rest of the decree applies to the wife and child.

The decree of September 21, 1995 (same decree related above) further indicates that only the children of a Grand Duke and a Hereditary Grand Duke shall bear the designation Prince/ss of Luxembourg with the style royal highness. The decree further indicates that the spouse of these specific Princes shall be Princess of Luxembourg and styled as Royal Highness.

The decree further indicates that the children of a Prince of Luxembourg who contracted a marriage with the consent of The Grand Duke shall carry the title Prince/ss of Nassau and the style of Royal Highness. The decree does not mention how the children of those men titled Prince of Nassau will be styled, and as none of them have married or produced children we have no examples to guide us - yet.

The decree also states that titles gained via marriage are automatically lost upon judicial separation, divorce or remarriage after death.

I found it interesting that titles gained by marriage to a "Prince of our House" are lost merely by judicial separation which occurs prior to a divorce. Which means that the soon-to-be ex-wife of a Prince would have lost her titles prior to the actual divorce.

[Princess Mia]

When Prince gulliame's brothers (excluding louis) and his sister get's married, will their spouses have the title his or her Royal highness Prince or Princess.

How did this thread get on other royals ????? lol

[Kotroman]

Originally Posted by pamk

I'm sorry but I don't understand. So, Margarethe and Sophie are still known and addressed as "royal highness"?
Margarethe would be HRH Princess Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Her husband would be HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Caroline of Monaco is HRH Princess Caroline of Hannover - is she still
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco or HRH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

Thanks so much!

When a person is entitled to use two styles, the highest of the two styles is usually used. So, since The Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein is entitled to use both Royal Highness and Serene Highness, it's logical that she'll choose to use her premarital style of Royal Highness. The Princess of Hanover is entitled to use both Serene Highness and Royal Highness, so it's logical that she'll choose to use her marital style of Royal Highness. By the way, Caroline is not normally styled "HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover" in English. She is styled "HRH The Princess of Hanover", because she is the spouse of the pretender and thus ranks higher than other princesses of Hanover. The article "the" generally promotes the person to a higher status.

Originally Posted by Princess Mia

When Prince gulliame's brothers (excluding louis) and his sister get's married, will their spouses have the title his or her Royal highness Prince or Princess.

How did this thread get on other royals ????? lol

Wives of princes become princesses, while husbands of princesses do not become princes unless the Sovereign gives them the title.