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  #21  
Old 02-19-2009, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JulieS View Post
Catholic noble women can wear white in presence of the pope ? Are you sure of this ? According to Wikipedia, "as of February 2009, those to whom the privilège du blanc extends are Queen Sofia of Spain, Queen Paola of Belgium, Queen Fabiola of Belgium, and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg".
I believe they are the only legally-recognized royals who can take part. However, as the wiki article states, the dress code is optional now, so even I can technically wear white to see the Pope. I'd be ridiculed in the press (like Cherie Blair was, although it turns she just didn't have time to change for the spontaneous meeting), but it wouldn't be against the law. Many women still choose to wear black or exercise the privelege out of historical tradition. I know that all princesses of the House of Savoy were alotted the privilege du blanc as I posted in the "Royals visiting the Pope" thread
Royals Visiting the Pope
I have read that certain noble princely Italian families (who had reigned in the former papal states) also have the privelege but I have found no evidence yet, so I can't be sure. Also, I've also read that Archduchesses from the House of Hapsburg have that privilege, so I'm wondering if Princess of Astrid of Belgium has ever worn white to see the Pope if this were true as she would accorded this right through her marriage to Archduke Lorenz, if she chose to follow tradition.
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  #22  
Old 02-19-2009, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rociocristina View Post
And luxemburgo is not a kingdom, because it is a small country, and a kingdom is for a big country? as in monaco that is a principality, was not a kingdom, because it was very small to be a kingdom, this way it happens in luxemburgo?
Theoretically is maria teresa like a queen in luxemburgo truth?
I don't think Luxembourg is a Grand Duchy simply because it is so small. It is a Grand Duchy, because that is how it has grown historically.

As to wearing white in the presence of the Pope: MT is the wife of a Catholic reigning monarch, that's enough of a reason. Being the wife of a reigning monarch, she is more or less equal in rank to those who hold the title Queen Consort. I can't imagine she would have to courtesy Queen Paola of Belgium, or Queen Sofia of Spain.
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  #23  
Old 02-19-2009, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyLeana View Post
Being the wife of a reigning monarch, she is more or less equal in rank to those who hold the title Queen Consort. I can't imagine she would have to courtesy Queen Paola of Belgium, or Queen Sofia of Spain.
Nobody (neither me nor you) has to courtesy The Queen of the Belgians or The Queen of Spain. People choose to do so, and if The Grand Duchess of Luxembourg wants to respect tradition, she would courtesy Majesties and Imperial Majesties (and perhaps Imperial Highnesses). I don't think she'll ever do it, though, because all heads of state are considerd equal nowadays.
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  #24  
Old 02-19-2009, 03:59 PM
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I always thought it would be quite respectless of me if I didn't courtesy a royal upon meeting them. (never had the opportunity, so far, but you know, in the event of...)

I guess I'm the new generation who does consider the Grand Duchess equal to the Queens abovementioned. Only in matters of Heads of State amongs each other though. In the unlikely event I'd ever host a dinner party for the various royals from around the globe, I'd follow the usual ranking
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  #25  
Old 02-19-2009, 04:55 PM
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It's not the title which makes me consider The Grand Duchess lower ranking than a queen, but her style. She is a Royal Highness, just like a daughter of a king, so it seems natural to me that a Majesty outranks her But you are right when you say that she wouldn't bow to anyone, because it could be viewed as Luxembourg being subordinate to Spain.

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I always thought it would be quite respectless of me if I didn't courtesy a royal upon meeting them. (never had the opportunity, so far, but you know, in the event of...)
I know, I would courtesy too. I meant to say that The Grand Duchess of Luxembourg can choose not to courtesy anyone, just like we can
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  #26  
Old 02-19-2009, 04:57 PM
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It's not the title which makes me consider The Grand Duchess lower ranking than a queen, but her style. She is a Royal Highness, just like a daughter of a king, so it seems natural to me that a Majesty outranks her But you are right when you say that she wouldn't bow to anyone, because it could be viewed as Luxembourg being subordinate to Spain.
You explain me better than I can explain myself

That's exactly what I meant
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  #27  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:27 PM
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The title of "Grand Duchess" has always seemed strange to me as I had always associated it with tsarist Russia - as His/Her Imperial Highness Grand Duke/Duchess ...
But, Luxembourg does seem to be its own little Kingdom or Grand Duchy with the Grand Duke wielding great power. At least the royals there can style themselves as "royal highnesses" and not as "serene highnesses" as in Monaco.
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  #28  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:44 PM
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I find nothing strange in the title of Grand Duke of Luxembourg. As I said above, the title born by the daughters and daughters-in-law of the Emperors of Russia would be correctly translated as "Grand Princess" (Великая Княжна). Княжна is translated as "Princess", so it seems logical that Великая Княжна would be translated as Grand Princess. However, I guess that British royals didn't want to imply that the Russian princesses rank higher than the British princesses and thus decided to style them as Grand Duchesses rather than as Grand Princesses.
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  #29  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:51 PM
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The Princesses of Liechenstein and Monaco are not allowed tu wear "blanc" if they visite the Pope because they are Serene HH
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  #30  
Old 02-20-2009, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pamk View Post
The title of "Grand Duchess" has always seemed strange to me as I had always associated it with tsarist Russia - as His/Her Imperial Highness Grand Duke/Duchess ...
But, Luxembourg does seem to be its own little Kingdom or Grand Duchy with the Grand Duke wielding great power. At least the royals there can style themselves as "royal highnesses" and not as "serene highnesses" as in Monaco.
I believe they are all styled "Royal Highness" since the marriage of Grand Duchess Charlotte to Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma. Before that, they were "Grand Ducal Hignesses", and only the Grand Duke and the heir apparent were styled "Royal Highness".
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  #31  
Old 02-20-2009, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
The Princesses of Liechenstein and Monaco are not allowed tu wear "blanc" if they visite the Pope because they are Serene HH
But Sophie, the wife of Prince Alois, was a "royal highness" before her marriage and still is as his wife.
Isn't one always a "royal" highness - even after marriage to a "serene" highness?

I hope that I am correct on this.

Whoops, I forgot - Margarethe of Luxembourg was a "royal highness" of Luxembourg when she married into the Liechenstein family is she still titled as a Royal Highness?
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  #32  
Old 02-20-2009, 06:04 PM
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Whoops, I forgot - Margarethe of Luxembourg was a "royal highness" of Luxembourg when she married into the Liechenstein family is she still titled as a Royal Highness?
Yes. It works always like this. For example the Margravine of Baden is HI & RH and it was the same for the grandmother of Prince Hans Adam who as also a Archduchess of Austria by birth.
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  #33  
Old 02-20-2009, 06:27 PM
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Yes. It works always like this. For example the Margravine of Baden is HI & RH and it was the same for the grandmother of Prince Hans Adam who as also a Archduchess of Austria by birth.
I'm sorry but I don't understand. So, Margarethe and Sophie are still known and addressed as "royal highness"?
Margarethe would be HRH Princess Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Her husband would be HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Caroline of Monaco is HRH Princess Caroline of Hannover - is she still
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco or HRH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

Thanks so much!
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  #34  
Old 02-20-2009, 06:32 PM
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When Prince gulliame's brothers (excluding louis) and his sister get's married, will their spouses have the title his or her Royal highness Prince or Princess.

How did this thread get on other royals ????? lol
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  #35  
Old 02-20-2009, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pamk View Post
I'm sorry but I don't understand. So, Margarethe and Sophie are still known and addressed as "royal highness"?
Margarethe would be HRH Princess Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Her husband would be HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Caroline of Monaco is HRH Princess Caroline of Hannover - is she still
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco or HRH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

Thanks so much!
When a person is entitled to use two styles, the highest of the two styles is usually used. So, since The Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein is entitled to use both Royal Highness and Serene Highness, it's logical that she'll choose to use her premarital style of Royal Highness. The Princess of Hanover is entitled to use both Serene Highness and Royal Highness, so it's logical that she'll choose to use her marital style of Royal Highness. By the way, Caroline is not normally styled "HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover" in English. She is styled "HRH The Princess of Hanover", because she is the spouse of the pretender and thus ranks higher than other princesses of Hanover. The article "the" generally promotes the person to a higher status.

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When Prince gulliame's brothers (excluding louis) and his sister get's married, will their spouses have the title his or her Royal highness Prince or Princess.

How did this thread get on other royals ????? lol
Wives of princes become princesses, while husbands of princesses do not become princes unless the Sovereign gives them the title.
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  #36  
Old 02-21-2009, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by pamk View Post
I'm sorry but I don't understand. So, Margarethe and Sophie are still known and addressed as "royal highness"?
Margarethe would be HRH Princess Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Her husband would be HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechenstein?
Caroline of Monaco is HRH Princess Caroline of Hannover - is she still
HSH Princess Caroline of Monaco or HRH Princess Caroline of Monaco?

Thanks so much!
Caroline is styled as HRH The Princess of Hannover since her marriage.

Margarethe is remains styled as HRH Princess Margarethe of Luxembourg and her husband remains HSH Prince Nicholas of Liechtenstein. Princess Margarethe is frequently styled as HRH Princess Margarethe of Liechtenstein which I supposed isn't technically incorrect.

Yes, Princess Margarethe and Princess Sophie remain styled as HRH because they have not lost their birth titles nor appellations.

The styles HRH vs HGDH has already been answered in the thread on styles concerning members of the family.

If Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume's siblings marry the titles of their spouses depend largely on whether or not those marriages are approved by Grand Duke Henri. The example of Prince Jean and Helen Vesture and Prince Louis and Tessy Antony are examples of this.

The decrees on the books in Luxembourg indicated that a Prince or Princess who contracts a marriage without consent will be titled as Count/ss of Nassau. The wives and children of a Prince who contracts a marriage without consent should also be Count/ss of Nassau under this decree. Although, in Luxembourg tradition has been that the Prince or Princess remains a Prince/ss with the style of Royal Highness while the rest of the decree applies to the wife and child.

The decree of September 21, 1995 (same decree related above) further indicates that only the children of a Grand Duke and a Hereditary Grand Duke shall bear the designation Prince/ss of Luxembourg with the style royal highness. The decree further indicates that the spouse of these specific Princes shall be Princess of Luxembourg and styled as Royal Highness.

The decree further indicates that the children of a Prince of Luxembourg who contracted a marriage with the consent of The Grand Duke shall carry the title Prince/ss of Nassau and the style of Royal Highness. The decree does not mention how the children of those men titled Prince of Nassau will be styled, and as none of them have married or produced children we have no examples to guide us - yet.

The decree also states that titles gained via marriage are automatically lost upon judicial separation, divorce or remarriage after death.

I found it interesting that titles gained by marriage to a "Prince of our House" are lost merely by judicial separation which occurs prior to a divorce. Which means that the soon-to-be ex-wife of a Prince would have lost her titles prior to the actual divorce.
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  #37  
Old 05-22-2009, 07:30 PM
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Grand Duchess Maria Teresa and her titles

Does the Grand Duchess have any more titles such as countess, duchess, or lady or is she just simply Grand Duchess. I've been wondering this.
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  #38  
Old 05-22-2009, 09:29 PM
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One has to take into consideration that while Henri is the Grand Duke now that his father is still very much alive, so additional titles that would be inherited by Henri have yet to be inherited.

However, she is also Princess of Luxembourg, Princess of Nassau and until 1986 also a Princess of Bourbon-Parma since her marriage to Henri. One day she will also be Duchess of Nassau, Countess Palatine of the Rhine, Countess of Sayn, Königstein, Katzenelnbogen and Diez, Burgravine of Hammerstein, and Lady of Mahlberg, Wiesbaden, Idstein, Merenberg, Limburg and Eppstein. One should also note that these traditional German titles do not exist in legality due to the abolishment of titles in Germany and the female line decent unless one considers them to be newly created Luxembourg titles since they would have been inherted by Jean from his mother - which, of course, they sort of are. Much like the Bourbon Parma title created for Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume when he was named HGD.
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  #39  
Old 05-23-2009, 12:05 AM
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Thanks, so your trying to say she has yet to inherit the further titles you have just listed.
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  #40  
Old 05-23-2009, 01:53 AM
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It is The Grand Duke who will inherit them not his wife. She will just acquire the feminine version of them via courtesy per the normal standard that the wife has equal dignity as her husband.
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