Luxembourg Succession & Titles

[annie02]

Wort has posted an article about the change of laws in successtion for the Grand Duchy. I am not familiar with the way things work ing Luxembourg but from what I can gather the Grand Duke has approved a change in succession laws in favor of gender blind succession, but the legislature must approve it. The article also does not state how this will be applied, i.e. will the measure put Princess Alexandra in the line of succession after Prince Felix, or will it begin with HGD Guillaume's children? The article in English:

wort.lu | Luxembourg | New Ducal succession rights for Grand Duchy

[MAfan]

It's likely it will affect only Grand Duke Henri's descendants, since Henri has an older sister.
I wonder if it will also limit the succession rights only to Henri's descendants (thus excluding Prince Guillaume and his descendants from the succession).

[Renata4711]

It must be difficult for the family to get used to a new arrangement "since the Family Pact of 1783".

Here's the French version:
wort.lu | Luxembourg | Le Grand-Duc Henri introduit l'égalité entre hommes et femmes en matière de succession au trône

House of Nassau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[JessRulz]

The Lux-arazzi Blogspot had a write-up of this news yesterday: Luxembourg: New Succession Rules...

Their info says that the change will begin with Grand Duke Henri's descendants, and that the last change to the succession was not in 1783, but July 1907. They also pose similar questions as MAfan does - "does the gender neutral succession include other branches (simply beginning with Henri's heirs) or does it exclude them, just legitimate descendants of a marriage or a marriage with consent and are any new provisions made to regain lost rights of succession (Belgium and Monaco style)? Does anyone come after Prince Sebastien in the line of succession, and if so, is it Princess Marie-Astrid or Prince Guillaume?"

All in all, the change IMO is a positive though - the Grand Ducal succession is now similar to most other European successions (once it is approved of course).

[Whitetiger]

I agree. It's definitely a fair change. It puts His only daughter in the line succession based on numbered birth. Much better...

[Lenora]

So,is Luxembourg the next monarchy to adopt the equal primogeniture?

[Daphoenyx]

I'm sorry, but doesn't this allow already equal primogeniture? I thought it was equivalent!

Anyway I'm very happy with the change!!

[Leslie2006]

In Luxembourg, no. There have previously been women on the throne of Luxembourg, but at some point the laws were changed to males only; this new change has made it males and females, and it looks like it's based on order of birth as well, similar to what's been done in Sweden and Norway.

[countess felicitas]

Definitely a positive step.

[Saschana]

Before the change of succession females were only allowed to inherit the throne when no male heirs were available. William III. only had daughters so his daughter Wilhelmina inherited the Dutch throne while the Luxembourgish throne went to another branch of the Nassau family and Adolphe I. When his son died their were no male heirs who were born of equal marriage so he changed the law that females were allowed to succeed in case no men are left. Therefore, Marie-Adelaide and Charlotte were able to become Grand Duchesses. Before the change of succession Henri's sons were allowed to inherit and then came Prince Guillaume and then his sons. Now Alexandra and any other female descendants of the current Grand Duke are now in line to succession while his sisters aren't (unless there are no males left).
Interestingly the change already took place in September and it is by Grand Ducal decree as the Luxembourgish constitution says that the succession to the throne is based upon the Nassau Family pact. But this is about to change as well as a change of constitution is under way: it will also say that males and females are equal in succession.

[LaPlusBelle]

Good for them. :-) This makes me smile.

[maria-olivia]

I really do not understand , the Grand duke Henri has 4 sons ?
His grandmother Charlotte was Grand Duchess because she had no brother at all.
This may me think to Prince jean Jr who lost his grand ducal title for love (Helene Vestur) Prince Louis marries a commoner and remains Prince of Nassau as his 2 sons.
completely puzzled !

[Sancia]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

I really do not understand , the Grand duke Henri has 4 sons ?
His grandmother Charlotte was Grand Duchess because she had no brother at all.
This may me think to Prince jean Jr who lost his grand ducal title for love (Helene Vestur) Prince Louis marries a commoner and remains Prince of Nassau as his 2 sons.
completely puzzled !

Prince Jean's children were upgraded to the title "count of Nassau" in 1995 and to the title "prince of Nassau" in 2004, as well as prince Robert's children (prince Robert is prince Charles' son and grand-duke Henri cousin). So they were princes of Nassau before the birth of Louis and Tessy's first boy.

[Saschana]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

I really do not understand , the Grand duke Henri has 4 sons ?
His grandmother Charlotte was Grand Duchess because she had no brother at all.
This may me think to Prince jean Jr who lost his grand ducal title for love (Helene Vestur) Prince Louis marries a commoner and remains Prince of Nassau as his 2 sons.
completely puzzled !

Yes four: Guillaume, Félix, Louis and Sébastien.

Charlotte became Grand Duchess because there was no legitimate male heir left at all within her family.

Jean didn't lose his titles. He remained HRH Princes of Luxembourg, it was only that his wife and children were simply "de Nassau" without any titles.
As Sancia said, Helene and the children became Count/Countess of Nassau in 1995. Jean and Helene divorced later before the children were upgraded to Prince/Princess of Nassau. Same goes for the wife of Prince Robert and their children.
Louis only renounced his rights but didn't lose his title. At the time of the wedding Tessy became Madame de Nassau, again without any titles. Same goes for Gabriel and Noah at the time for their births. They were upgraded to the titles of Princess of Luxembourg/Princes of Nassau on National Day 2009.

The fact that both Jean and Louis renounced their rights didn't have much to do with the fact that they married commoners but that they had children out of wedlock. Maria Teresa and Sibilla are both commoners albeit the later has very royal ancestors. I guess that in case Jean and Helene were still married, she would be a Princess of Luxembourg by now. Unfortunately I don't have a clue what Jean's second wifes title is.

I guess the fact that Tessy, Gabriel and Noah were upgraded much faster has to do with the fact that the Grand Ducal Family has become more liberal over the years. They have quite a history of pregnant wives and children born out of wedlock

[Saschana]

Luxarazzi has some clarifications on the matter of changing succession. Is seems as if the change only applies to the children of Guillaume, Félix and Sébastien, so not even Alexandra is included in the succession.

Luxembourg: Clarification (sort of) on the new succession changes....

[Esmerelda]

Originally Posted by Saschana

Luxarazzi has some clarifications on the matter of changing succession. Is seems as if the change only applies to the children of Guillaume, Félix and Sébastien, so not even Alexandra is included in the succession.

Luxembourg: Clarification (sort of) on the new succession changes....

So it applies to people born to those in the line of succession after the law being passed?

[Saschana]

Apparently...

And it means that the little chances Alexandra had - no male members of the dynasty left - are also gone.

[Scotslass]

I think it is a good idea to start it from the next generation. It means that those who have grown from child to adult in a certain place will stay in that place, but for Guillaume's children it will be clear from the day that they are born. It means no-one ends up in the potentially unfair position that Sweden's Prince Carl-Philip was in as a child having his position changed by a new rule.

[maria-olivia]

To Saschana , thanks for your answer. Jean and Hélène had in fact a daughter before their wedding.
I did not understand why Diane de Guerre, Prince Jean Jr second wife was not invited at Grand Duke Jean 's 90th birthday.
I wonder how is the relationship with the 2 brothers Prince Jean Jr and Grand duke Henri. Did He assist Prince Jean Jr 2 weddings ?

[Saschana]

You're welcome!

The whole family was there for Jean and Helene's wedding. Despite the child out of wedlock the family has always supported the union and it seems as if they have taken Helene's side in the divorce. There were rumours that Jean was already involved with Diane when he was still married to Helene and the only family member who attended his 2nd wedding was Prince Guillaume. I don't know whether Sibilla and their children were there too. Non of his other siblings, nieces or nephews were there. I think Diane has never attended any event within Luxembourg so it seems that the family is not very welcoming towards her.

Originally Posted by Scotslass

I think it is a good idea to start it from the next generation. It means that those who have grown from child to adult in a certain place will stay in that place, but for Guillaume's children it will be clear from the day that they are born. It means no-one ends up in the potentially unfair position that Sweden's Prince Carl-Philip was in as a child having his position changed by a new rule.

Nothing would really change had they included Alexandra. Guillaume would still be first in line and Felix second. Alexandra would be third and Sebastien fourth, actually the place he was born in as Louis renounced his rights.
I have to agree with the Luxarazzi-Blogger, I too find it strange as Alexandra is clearly a descendant of the current Grand Duke and it doesn't seem as if they really want an equal succession... It would only mean that two people would be added to the line - Princess Alexandra and Princess Charlotte - and there are highly unlikely to inherit.