Luxembourg Succession & Titles


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Kotroman

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If I understand the succession law in Luxembourg correctly, the succession is restricted to the heirs-male of Grand Duke William IV's daughters.

So, are the heirs-male of Crown Princess Sophie of Saxony in the line of succession to the throne of Luxembourg after the heirs-male of Charlotte? In other words, are Prince Ruediger of Saxony and his sons in the line of succession?
 
Theoretically the male line heirs of Princess Sophie can succeed to the throne in Luxembourg; the problem is that all her descendants were born from morganatic marriages, so I really don't know if Rudiger can succeed or not.
 
Change of Sucession for the Grand Duchy; June 2011

Wort has posted an article about the change of laws in successtion for the Grand Duchy. I am not familiar with the way things work ing Luxembourg but from what I can gather the Grand Duke has approved a change in succession laws in favor of gender blind succession, but the legislature must approve it. The article also does not state how this will be applied, i.e. will the measure put Princess Alexandra in the line of succession after Prince Felix, or will it begin with HGD Guillaume's children? The article in English:

wort.lu | Luxembourg | New Ducal succession rights for Grand Duchy
 
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It's likely it will affect only Grand Duke Henri's descendants, since Henri has an older sister.
I wonder if it will also limit the succession rights only to Henri's descendants (thus excluding Prince Guillaume and his descendants from the succession).
 
The Lux-arazzi Blogspot had a write-up of this news yesterday: Luxembourg: New Succession Rules...

Their info says that the change will begin with Grand Duke Henri's descendants, and that the last change to the succession was not in 1783, but July 1907. They also pose similar questions as MAfan does - "does the gender neutral succession include other branches (simply beginning with Henri's heirs) or does it exclude them, just legitimate descendants of a marriage or a marriage with consent and are any new provisions made to regain lost rights of succession (Belgium and Monaco style)? Does anyone come after Prince Sebastien in the line of succession, and if so, is it Princess Marie-Astrid or Prince Guillaume?"

All in all, the change IMO is a positive though - the Grand Ducal succession is now similar to most other European successions (once it is approved of course).
 
I agree. It's definitely a fair change. It puts His only daughter in the line succession based on numbered birth. Much better... :D
 
So,is Luxembourg the next monarchy to adopt the equal primogeniture?
 
I'm sorry, but doesn't this allow already equal primogeniture? I thought it was equivalent!

Anyway I'm very happy with the change!!
 
In Luxembourg, no. There have previously been women on the throne of Luxembourg, but at some point the laws were changed to males only; this new change has made it males and females, and it looks like it's based on order of birth as well, similar to what's been done in Sweden and Norway.
 
Before the change of succession females were only allowed to inherit the throne when no male heirs were available. William III. only had daughters so his daughter Wilhelmina inherited the Dutch throne while the Luxembourgish throne went to another branch of the Nassau family and Adolphe I. When his son died their were no male heirs who were born of equal marriage so he changed the law that females were allowed to succeed in case no men are left. Therefore, Marie-Adelaide and Charlotte were able to become Grand Duchesses. Before the change of succession Henri's sons were allowed to inherit and then came Prince Guillaume and then his sons. Now Alexandra and any other female descendants of the current Grand Duke are now in line to succession while his sisters aren't (unless there are no males left).
Interestingly the change already took place in September and it is by Grand Ducal decree as the Luxembourgish constitution says that the succession to the throne is based upon the Nassau Family pact. But this is about to change as well as a change of constitution is under way: it will also say that males and females are equal in succession.
 
I really do not understand , the Grand duke Henri has 4 sons ?
His grandmother Charlotte was Grand Duchess because she had no brother at all.
This may me think to Prince jean Jr who lost his grand ducal title for love (Helene Vestur) Prince Louis marries a commoner and remains Prince of Nassau as his 2 sons.
completely puzzled !
 
I really do not understand , the Grand duke Henri has 4 sons ?
His grandmother Charlotte was Grand Duchess because she had no brother at all.
This may me think to Prince jean Jr who lost his grand ducal title for love (Helene Vestur) Prince Louis marries a commoner and remains Prince of Nassau as his 2 sons.
completely puzzled !

Prince Jean's children were upgraded to the title "count of Nassau" in 1995 and to the title "prince of Nassau" in 2004, as well as prince Robert's children (prince Robert is prince Charles' son and grand-duke Henri cousin). So they were princes of Nassau before the birth of Louis and Tessy's first boy.
 
I really do not understand , the Grand duke Henri has 4 sons ?
His grandmother Charlotte was Grand Duchess because she had no brother at all.
This may me think to Prince jean Jr who lost his grand ducal title for love (Helene Vestur) Prince Louis marries a commoner and remains Prince of Nassau as his 2 sons.
completely puzzled !

Yes four: Guillaume, Félix, Louis and Sébastien.

Charlotte became Grand Duchess because there was no legitimate male heir left at all within her family.

Jean didn't lose his titles. He remained HRH Princes of Luxembourg, it was only that his wife and children were simply "de Nassau" without any titles.
As Sancia said, Helene and the children became Count/Countess of Nassau in 1995. Jean and Helene divorced later before the children were upgraded to Prince/Princess of Nassau. Same goes for the wife of Prince Robert and their children.
Louis only renounced his rights but didn't lose his title. At the time of the wedding Tessy became Madame de Nassau, again without any titles. Same goes for Gabriel and Noah at the time for their births. They were upgraded to the titles of Princess of Luxembourg/Princes of Nassau on National Day 2009.

The fact that both Jean and Louis renounced their rights didn't have much to do with the fact that they married commoners but that they had children out of wedlock. Maria Teresa and Sibilla are both commoners albeit the later has very royal ancestors. I guess that in case Jean and Helene were still married, she would be a Princess of Luxembourg by now. Unfortunately I don't have a clue what Jean's second wifes title is.

I guess the fact that Tessy, Gabriel and Noah were upgraded much faster has to do with the fact that the Grand Ducal Family has become more liberal over the years. They have quite a history of pregnant wives and children born out of wedlock ;)
 
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Apparently...

And it means that the little chances Alexandra had - no male members of the dynasty left - are also gone.
 
I think it is a good idea to start it from the next generation. It means that those who have grown from child to adult in a certain place will stay in that place, but for Guillaume's children it will be clear from the day that they are born. It means no-one ends up in the potentially unfair position that Sweden's Prince Carl-Philip was in as a child having his position changed by a new rule.
 
To Saschana , thanks for your answer. Jean and Hélène had in fact a daughter before their wedding.
I did not understand why Diane de Guerre, Prince Jean Jr second wife was not invited at Grand Duke Jean 's 90th birthday.
I wonder how is the relationship with the 2 brothers Prince Jean Jr and Grand duke Henri. Did He assist Prince Jean Jr 2 weddings ?
 
You're welcome!

The whole family was there for Jean and Helene's wedding. Despite the child out of wedlock the family has always supported the union and it seems as if they have taken Helene's side in the divorce. There were rumours that Jean was already involved with Diane when he was still married to Helene and the only family member who attended his 2nd wedding was Prince Guillaume. I don't know whether Sibilla and their children were there too. Non of his other siblings, nieces or nephews were there. I think Diane has never attended any event within Luxembourg so it seems that the family is not very welcoming towards her.

I think it is a good idea to start it from the next generation. It means that those who have grown from child to adult in a certain place will stay in that place, but for Guillaume's children it will be clear from the day that they are born. It means no-one ends up in the potentially unfair position that Sweden's Prince Carl-Philip was in as a child having his position changed by a new rule.

Nothing would really change had they included Alexandra. Guillaume would still be first in line and Felix second. Alexandra would be third and Sebastien fourth, actually the place he was born in as Louis renounced his rights.
I have to agree with the Luxarazzi-Blogger, I too find it strange as Alexandra is clearly a descendant of the current Grand Duke and it doesn't seem as if they really want an equal succession... It would only mean that two people would be added to the line - Princess Alexandra and Princess Charlotte - and there are highly unlikely to inherit.
 
You're welcome!

The whole family was there for Jean and Helene's wedding. Despite the child out of wedlock the family has always supported the union and it seems as if they have taken Helene's side in the divorce. There were rumours that Jean was already involved with Diane when he was still married to Helene and the only family member who attended his 2nd wedding was Prince Guillaume. I don't know whether Sibilla and their children were there too. Non of his other siblings, nieces or nephews were there. I think Diane has never attended any event within Luxembourg so it seems that the family is not very welcoming towards her.



Nothing would really change had they included Alexandra. Guillaume would still be first in line and Felix second. Alexandra would be third and Sebastien fourth, actually the place he was born in as Louis renounced his rights.
I have to agree with the Luxarazzi-Blogger, I too find it strange as Alexandra is clearly a descendant of the current Grand Duke and it doesn't seem as if they really want an equal succession... It would only mean that two people would be added to the line - Princess Alexandra and Princess Charlotte - and there are highly unlikely to inherit.
Why did Louis renounce his rights?
 
:previous:

He fathered a child out of wedlock at the age of 19. Gabriel was born in March 2006 and he married the mother of his child later that year in September. When they got married Louis decided that he would renounce his rights as any other son born during their marriage would have been in the line of succession while Gabriel wouldn't have, as Luxembourg doesn't have the option of legitimising children through marriage.
More specifically he didn't ask for consent so he lost his rights. No one knows whether he would have gotten the consent...
 
:previous:

He fathered a child out of wedlock at the age of 19. Gabriel was born in March 2006 and he married the mother of his child later that year in September. When they got married Louis decided that he would renounce his rights as any other son born during their marriage would have been in the line of succession while Gabriel wouldn't have, as Luxembourg doesn't have the option of legitimising children through marriage.
More specifically he didn't ask for consent so he lost his rights. No one knows whether he would have gotten the consent...

The wording of the wedding announcement could let think that, as parents, the grand duke and the grand duchess welcomed Tessy in the family but that the couple wouldn't have got the consent.
 
You're welcome!

The whole family was there for Jean and Helene's wedding. Despite the child out of wedlock the family has always supported the union and it seems as if they have taken Helene's side in the divorce. There were rumours that Jean was already involved with Diane when he was still married to Helene and the only family member who attended his 2nd wedding was Prince Guillaume. I don't know whether Sibilla and their children were there too. Non of his other siblings, nieces or nephews were there. I think Diane has never attended any event within Luxembourg so it seems that the family is not very welcoming towards her.



Nothing would really change had they included Alexandra. Guillaume would still be first in line and Felix second. Alexandra would be third and Sebastien fourth, actually the place he was born in as Louis renounced his rights.
I have to agree with the Luxarazzi-Blogger, I too find it strange as Alexandra is clearly a descendant of the current Grand Duke and it doesn't seem as if they really want an equal succession... It would only mean that two people would be added to the line - Princess Alexandra and Princess Charlotte - and there are highly unlikely to inherit.

I'm not sure I agree with Absolute Primogeniture for two reasons;
1) This means the end of well established European dynasties like the Bourbons, and the Oldenburgs, since these thrones wll pass out of these families through the female line.
2) What if the Crown Princess makes an unsuitable marriage? Lady Davina Windsor, daughter of the Duke of Gloucester married a Maori- had she been 1st in line to the Throne, Britain would have ended up with a Maori royal family. What if the Crown Princess marries a Malaysian Muslim, or a Polish man. This means a foreign family on the Throne- this is what happened in Scotland when female line succession was first permitted- with disastrous consequences for the Celtic population of Scotland.,
3) Some families have a genetic tendency to produce male children first- like the Mac Gregors of Glencarnaig- the family of the Chiefs of the Scottish Clan Gregor. In this case , the country would never see a female ruler.
I believe it is better to have a Dynastic-Elective monarchy like Thailand, or Cambodia. The monarch is elected, so long as they belong to the Royal House in the male line- could be either a king or a queen.
 
Lux-arazzi is now reporting that Princess Alexandra is in the line sucession now, ahead of Prince Sebastian. The only reason I can think of that the Cour Grand-Ducale is insisting the change is not retroactive (which it must be, since Princess Alexandra is included where she would have been had the current rules been in effect at the time of her birth) is that obviously Grand Duke Henri is not being replaced by his older sister. The would be totally illogical, but perhaps that's why they're insisting it's not truly retroactive.

Luxembourg: The Neverending Story...

I do agree with the blog post in that it would just be so much easier for the Cour Grand-Ducale to just publish the full line of succession.

It's likely a moot point, since both HGD Guillaume and Prince Felix would have to die childless for it matter where Princess Alexandra is, but stranger things have happened. (Don't misunderstand--I wish nothing but the best for both Guillaume and Felix, you just never know.)
 
Hello everybody!

I was reading in the UJM areportagem Hola! Spain and read that line of succession changed in Lux!

Now the second in line of succession is the Princess Alexandra, but it would be Prince Felix?

Can someone answer me this question????
 
As far as I understood it´s for the next generation. If Guillaume and Stephanie get a girl first, she will bei the heir
 
The current line of succession for Luxembourg is:

1. HGD Guillaume (heir apparent)
2. Felix
3. Alexandra
4. Sebastien
5. Prince Guillaume, brother of GD Henri
6. Prince Paul Louis of Nassau, son of Prince Guillaume
7. Prince Léopold of Nassau, son of Prince Guillaume
8. Prince Jean André of Nassau, son of Prince Guillaume

Prince Louis, who otherwise would have been 3rd, renounced his rights just before his first son was born and Prince Jean, the other brother of GD Henri who would otherwise be 5th in line, renounced his rights before his first marriage in 1986.
The absolute primogeniture was only in effect for Henri's children, hence Alexandra took her place before her younger brother Sebastien but Princesses Marie-Astrid and Margaretha are not in line.
Should Guillaume and Stephanie have a girl first she would be heir as liv already said :flowers:
 
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