How come Grand Duke Jean takes precedence over The Grand Duke?

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

Shouldn't he come after The Grand Duke because he abdicated?

[Warren]

Originally Posted by CrownPrinceLorenzo

Shouldn't he come after The Grand Duke because he abdicated?

It is up to the current Grand Duke to determine precedence. If he wishes to honour his father in this manner, so be it.

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

Okay, so for example.

If Charles was King, could he put his father on a higher precedence than him?

[Alexandria]

He could, but that likely wouldn't happen as Prince Philip was not the monarch -- it was his wife who was the head of the monarchy, not him. Prine Philip is merely a consort.

In the case of Luxembourg, Jean was the head of the monarchy and his wife was the consort.

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

Okay thanks.

So if it was Grand Duke Jean's wife that outlived him. She would probably come after The Grand Duke and his wife right?

[MoonlightRhapsody]

Originally Posted by CrownPrinceLorenzo

Okay thanks.

So if it was Grand Duke Jean's wife that outlived him. She would probably come after The Grand Duke and his wife right?

Curious thing, but I think she would still preceed her son, just because she is his mother. I can't be certain, but I think that in England, the Queen Mother was above or at the same level as her daughter up until the day she died. Her daughter did not place her lower than herself. I guess rules are different for the father of the monarch who was the consort of the previous monarch.

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by Moonlightrhapsody

Curious thing, but I think she would still preceed her son, just because she is his mother. I can't be certain, but I think that in England, the Queen Mother was above or at the same level as her daughter up until the day she died. Her daughter did not place her lower than herself. I guess rules are different for the father of the monarch who was the consort of the previous monarch.

No, I don't think Josephine-Charlotte would've preceeded her son had she outlived Jean. The same rule would apply to her as would Phillip in Great Britain.

Being the mother of the monarch has little to do with precedence. Why would being the mother of the monarch mean more than being the father of the monarch (as is the case of Phillip and Charles)?

In the Netherlands, after her abdication in favour of her daughter, Queen Juliana became Princess Juliana to signify her lower rank within the court, so that for some years, the hierarchy went something like this:
Queen Beatrix and Prince Claus
Princess Juliana and Prince Bernhard
Crown Prince Willem
Prince Johan-Friso
Prince Constantijn
Princess Margriet and Mr. Pieter van Vollenhoven
Prince Maurits
Prince Bernhard Jr.
Prince Pieter-Christiaan
Prince Floris

Upon her death, Princess Juliana was called Queen Juliana again to signify her former position in the monarchy.

Within the family Josephine-Charlotte might've had more power than her son, but as far as the monarchy went, Henri (and then his wife) was always the more powerful one and the one who took precedence when it came to court matters.

[gaggleofcrazypeople]

Besides, in Luxembourg women don't have equal rights when it comes to being monarch.

[moosey60]

Originally Posted by gaggleofcrazypeople

Besides, in Luxembourg women don't have equal rights when it comes to being monarch.

Don't women have no succession rights? I.e. I don't believe Princess Alexandra is in the line of succession at all.

Doesn't it go something like:
1. Guillaume
2. Felix
3. Louis
4. Sebastien

I think Luxembourg should change this...women should have equal rights. It might be an age-long tradition, but they should consider changing it what with it being the 21st century and the encouragement of gender equality. It seems Luxembourg and Japan want to hold onto traditions.

[Oppie]

Liechtenstein is the same.

[suturegeisha]

Originally Posted by moosey60

Don't women have no succession rights? I.e. I don't believe Princess Alexandra is in the line of succession at all.

Doesn't it go something like:
1. Guillaume
2. Felix
3. Louis
4. Sebastien

I think Luxembourg should change this...women should have equal rights. It might be an age-long tradition, but they should consider changing it what with it being the 21st century and the encouragement of gender equality. It seems Luxembourg and Japan want to hold onto traditions.

Women do have succession rights in Luxembourg, but only after all available male family members have been exhausted.
Current line of succession is:
1] Guillaume
2] Felix
3] Louis
4] Sebastien
5] Guillaume [1963]
6] Paul Louis
7] Leopold
....and from there I am not sure how the succession goes. I don't know if it would revert back to Alexandra [since Jean and his children Marie Gabrielle, Constantin, Wenceslaus and Carl Johan are not in line for the throne] or if it would pass to Marie-Astrid and her children.

[lisamaria]

Originally Posted by suturegeisha

Women do have succession rights in Luxembourg, but only after all available male family members have been exhausted.
Current line of succession is:
1] Guillaume
2] Felix
3] Louis
4] Sebastien
5] Guillaume [1963]
6] Paul Louis
7] Leopold
....and from there I am not sure how the succession goes. I don't know if it would revert back to Alexandra [since Jean and his children Marie Gabrielle, Constantin, Wenceslaus and Carl Johan are not in line for the throne] or if it would pass to Marie-Astrid and her children.

I think I saw somewhere a line where Alexandra was after Guillaume's youngest son. So it goes so that probably Guillaume's daughter comes after A and M-A and her children after her. But it's merely speculation - CP Guillaume doesn't even ride in the same car or plane with his father, in order to save if something happens to the other. What it does mean though was that if Guillaume and his future wife only got daughters, it would probably be Felix who would succeed him. Gives me headache really to think all that...

-Lisa :o

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Moonlightrhapsody

I can't be certain, but I think that in England, the Queen Mother was above or at the same level as her daughter up until the day she died. Her daughter did not place her lower than herself.

The female Order of Precedence was The Queen followed by The Queen Mother. A consort could never have precedence over the Sovereign.

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

Originally Posted by moosey60

Don't women have no succession rights? I.e. I don't believe Princess Alexandra is in the line of succession at all.

Doesn't it go something like:
1. Guillaume
2. Felix
3. Louis
4. Sebastien

I think Luxembourg should change this...women should have equal rights. It might be an age-long tradition, but they should consider changing it what with it being the 21st century and the encouragement of gender equality. It seems Luxembourg and Japan want to hold onto traditions.

They do, Grand Duke Jean's mom, Grand Duchess Charlotte was the monarch before she abdicated in favor of her son. But as Warren said, the male line has to be completely extinct before the women gets the throne. It's Semi-Salic Law.

[gaggleofcrazypeople]

Originally Posted by lisamaria

I think I saw somewhere a line where Alexandra was after Guillaume's youngest son. So it goes so that probably Guillaume's daughter comes after A and M-A and her children after her. But it's merely speculation - CP Guillaume doesn't even ride in the same car or plane with his father, in order to save if something happens to the other. What it does mean though was that if Guillaume and his future wife only got daughters, it would probably be Felix who would succeed him. Gives me headache really to think all that...

-Lisa :o

Your talking about Henri's brother, right? Because otherwise I would really be confused.

[suturegeisha]

Originally Posted by CrownPrinceLorenzo

They do, Grand Duke Jean's mom, Grand Duchess Charlotte was the monarch before she abdicated in favor of her son. But as Warren said, the male line has to be completely extinct before the women gets the throne. It's Semi-Salic Law.

Actually, I said that.

That's not to discredit Warren, though, I'm just making a point.

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

I'm sorry I didn't see your post! :(

[Warren]

Originally Posted by suturegeisha

Actually, I said that.
That's not to discredit Warren, though, I'm just making a point.

How did I get mixed up in this? . The credit is suturegeisha's. :)